Warwick Quay - my dockyard in an APA box

[rue_d_etropal]

I have started on my mini dockyard/quayside layout , fitting it into a spare APA box. Plan is based on one already here, which I have modified, included my wagon turntables, and inverted the design(no particular reason, but it does then look more different). I want to emphasize the size of the brick built mill and warehouse buildings up here in the north west.

The name comes from an old mill building in Middleton where Heywood club used to be based. The building has inspired me because it is built from my local NORI brick. I am planning to represent the common bond used for these buildings, namely Garden Wall bond. I am hoping someone will be able to produce this for me using lazer cutting.otherwise I have a couple of options to modify either the LCUT panels, or cobble up something using two different brick sheets from Slaters.

 

This is just a mock up. I estimate there will be 3 floors to the buildings, possibly no roof, to suggest the buildings are even taller. 5 floors would not be unusual.

The wagon turntables are slightly bigger than my original design, representing 15ft ones which were used in various northern locations. It will make positioning wagons on them easier. The overall size including base is no bigger than the 12ft one.

The wire structure in the middle represents a road bridge. It just happened to be about the right size, in fact it is the size of a real brick which I produced as part of my artwork project, based on the local NORI brick. I therefore plan to keep the bridge this size.It is wider than originally planned, but means the fiddle yard tracks are better hidden.

[rue_d_etropal]

Started working on track tonight.

Here is a list of the tracK I intend to use

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P-165stw-long-curved-y-tram-track-100-w-3a ---------------2 off

https://www.shapeways.com/product/WFR8KZX69/p-165stw-long-curved-y-tram-track-100-w-3a?optionId=21164067&li=ostatus
====================================
T-165-wagon-turntable-60d-100-wood-1a -------------- 2 off

https://www.shapeways.com/product/ZSSUKVF2H/t-165-wagon-turntable-60d-100-wood-1a?optionId=56568125&li=ostatus
====================================
T-165-wagon-turntable-60d-100-plus-base-small-1a  -------- 2 off

https://www.shapeways.com/product/WWDN54ERA/t-165-wagon-turntable-60d-100-plus-base-small-1a?optionId=56568743&li=ostatus
========================================
P-165stw-long-straight-tram-track-100-w-3a  --------------------- 2 off

https://www.shapeways.com/product/799N9H4RP/p-165stw-long-straight-tram-track-100-w-3a?optionId=21164112&li=ostatus
========================================
P-165stw-small-y-point-insert-1a

https://www.shapeways.com/product/K5YC9WXSH/p-165stw-small-y-point-insert-1a?optionId=40300646&li=ostatus
=======================================

 

Also required is a few lengths of 9second hand) flexi track for the rail, and some flexi track for other tracks.

I may use a Peco loco lift track as a sector plate, not sure yet

[rue_d_etropal]

To start off I am building the working wagon turntables, so I have done a series of photos to show how I did it.

=============================

1:The wagon turntable comes in two parts, each ordered separately, so different types can be used. The turntable can only move through 90 degrees, so only one track on turntable is used, the other is dummy.

2:After cleaning up the grooves the rails fit in, cut 2 short lengths to fit on dummy track. Take care, rail groove can be tight. I usually clean it out using some code 75 rail, then use code 100 rail. I do it carefully, and have been spiked by rail on several occasions.

3:Cut and fit full length pieces of rail on the live track

4:Finish off by cutting short lengths to complete the dummy track. File grooves in the live track to simulate the gaps in rail for dummy track.

5:Turning over and the gaps in the plastic can be seen. Wires can be soldered in places indicated, so it is possible to run locos onto or across turntable.

 

Now the turntable base.

6:Turn attention to the base, detach the operating arm , and insert through slot in side of base, with the 3 fitting points for the turntable upwards. It might be necessary to file the plastic a bit as gap is tight

7:The protrusion on other side of the arm fits into hole in middle of the base, Check to see if free to rotate, and if necessary file down plastic on arm, carefully.

8:Fit turntable top, and check it rotates OK.

 

 

9:Turning the base over, it is possible to see the slots(marked) through which the wires can be fed. Connect other end to the other connecting tracks as required. Make sure wires are long enough and don’t get tangled up. Leave extra space under base if necessary.

 

10:Connect up other inset track . Extending rails on these sections ,makes it easier to connect to turntable  base.

Check turntable with a suitable wagon. This is the slightly longer turntable, and should make shunting easier.

The turntable base is deeper than the other track sections, so track sections  need to be raised  by a few mm.

The turntable can be glued to operating arm(super glue) carefully. To fix base down, pin or glue down at edges making sure turntable movement is not inhibited.

 

Now onto other turntable, rest of inset track, and start on raised board to make quayside.

[ColinK]

I didn't know you could get the parts to make waggon turntables or inset track. Look very good.

[rue_d_etropal]

I started out with the track, then thought, why not a turntable, then thought it might be nice to have it working. Like building small layouts I love a challenge. BRM are hopefully going to do something on this 3D printed track. Chris Leigh did a good piece in Model Rail magazine.

I did start to look at a design to make working level crossing gates, but it was not working out so put it to one side. I will probably have another look. I wanted it to use similar idea to that used to move the turntable.

[Spitfire2865]

Oh wow. This is cool.

I have a bit of a thing for wagon TT's and yours looks interesting.

Though why did you decide on code 100 rather than 75 or something more prototypical?

Was it just to make printing easier as you wouldnt see much of the rail normally anyway?

 

I just had a look at your shapeways page. A lot of work there, though I had a bit of a hard time figuring out what all your codes mean.

I would be interested in a oo gauge 10' wagon TT and I had a bit of a hard time finding specifically that.

[rue_d_etropal]

Apologies about Shapeways website but it is nothing I can do about. I have added categories to try and make it easier, but there is no provision for sub-categories. The naming is logical and helps me organise them and keep track of them on my computer, just a pity the database muddles it up on the website. 

I am considering creating my own front end for the items, including templates to print.

As for code 100 rail versus code 75, I suspect most people use code 100 rail and have rolling stock to various standards. It is not that obvious from top as most of rail is covered. Also there are minimum thicknesses for 3D printed plastic, and I am already sailing very close to the wind. Code 100 rail is a LOT, yes a lot cheaper to get hold of, second hand at exhibitions.

I did start doing some designs for code 75 rail, but it would have meant doubling up everything, with all the maintenance involved(occasionally designs need upgrading to suit new standards introduced by Shapeways. I prefer to create new , challenging, designs.

Traditional design and manufacture tends to be slow, and ranges grow slowly. This does have the advantage of being able to de-bug any problems easier, but can run out of steam before full range is introduced, and then someone changes the wheel standards. I now have track from 6.5mm gauge up to 45mm gauge, with SM32 and G/G1 gauge using code 200 rail(awaiting testing). Turntables are planned for the bigger gauges as well.

This wide range of gauges was never planned, it just evolved. I do have to think carefully when someone suggests something new as it is easy to get carried away.

When I was researching wagon turntables, most seemed to be 12ft ones, then I was told of some 15ft ones, and found they were more common than I initially thought. 10ft turntable(40mm) would be possible, but I really need to concentrate on the larger gauges.

[rue_d_etropal]

Just fitted rail to other track sections and tried out for size in the APA box

 

The point has bee hard wired so not dependent on point blades to conduct power. I do this on all my points and add isolators where required.It is far more reliable but I am only running analogue not digital. Still not sure about the sector plate, as the Peco loco lift is too long for the space. Might cut it, but a simple sector plate might suffice.

The foam base will be covered by hardboard and thin cork, and some of the front cut away to create canal quayside.

The siding on right will be increased in length and the mddle one shortened so the inset track section can be used on front siding.

To wire up the track it is simple to solder under rails.

photo shows underside of middle siding

 

The nylon plastic is very resistant to hear unless the iron touches it, when you can smell it .

 

I want to use Pl12 point adapter so can connect rod to switch point. Clearance on tiebar is virtually zero, so has been filed down a bit, as has the underside of the inlay. The outer edges will be cut to fit around the ends of the tiebar. I have sometimes had to remove the tiebar locking springs, and depended on the locking of the PL12 unit.

[rue_d_etropal]

I decided to lower the quayside a bit. As it is a canal, water is not far below road surface. The poly blocks make nice impressions of the old mill/warehouse buildings.

As can be seen the PL12 point motor adapter fits between tracks, leaving enough space for a lorry to be parked. Dummy gates to the left to suggest entrance,

next job is to wire up and test track before fixing down.

[rue_d_etropal]

I have now fitted inlays to the point. They will hold in place, but could come loose when operating. Also it is possible to see sleepers so have use a brown 9non solvent) wood filler from Wilkinsons. It seems to do the job OK. The inlays are held in place using sprung clips. All this is done before fixing track down. A little bit of filing and loco runs through point OK. The outer edges will be fitted when track is fixed down.

The turntable bases are deeper than other track, so height of cork will need adjusting, and leaving a gap under the turntable will allow wires to move freely. No plans to run locos onto turntables, but easier to wire up before fixing down.

I fond an old Hornby bridge arch. A very versatile model, sometimes amazes me how good some of the old products are. The top was missing, so a new road surface will be added, increased in width to allow 2 lorries to pass each other. The story is that when the warehouse buildings were built the old road was widened for increased traffic, and part of old bridge left in place.

[Broadoak]

That is looking pretty good to me so far Simon, will follow this with interest.

 

Regards Peter M

[rue_d_etropal]

Progress has been slow because I set it up in my attic, and it has been too hot . At least it should be able to handle hot exhibition rooms! In some ways I should have waited till next year and built it as part of my exhibition workshop. I do have another idea for that though, and my work on creating new web pages to front end my Shapeways e-shop will provide  useful aids(printable templates).

[Allegheny1600]

Hello Simon,

This is all most innovative, I'm watching with interest!

Cheers,

John E.

[rue_d_etropal]

John,

I note you are not far away. I am planning to have this ready for my workshop display at Heywood exhibition (Rochdale Town Hall) next year. I am looking for other possible exhibitions to demonstrate how to build my inset track system.

I am also working on another layout(not a dockyard), as well as building new website for my 3D printed items and this is slowing things down as well.

[rue_d_etropal]

Plan to 3D print the brickwork as it needs to be garden wall bond, as that was commonly used for NORI brick buildings up here, The first samples came today so I am designing the other brick modules.
the design software has facility to print out on paper so with a bit of cut and paste in 'Paint' designed these mockups of what I want. A couple of changes but still gives an idea.


The end wall onto the bridge will have office entrance, possible loading doors. Had wondered about some dummy inset track across bridge and wagon turntable into the building. Possibly a bit much.

 

Amazing how much you can fit in an Ikea APA box. And to think the inspiration comes from Warwick Mill in Middleton, part of which used to be used to be used by Ikea for storage.

[47137]

Something I find quite frustrating, is every time I Google "quayside railway" or similar I get dozens of pictures beautiful model railway layouts. And, having lived in central England for many years I have never seen a working railway on a quayside, at least a working railway and quayside of modest proportions. This leaves me with a serious risk of making a model of a model for the quayside on my new layout.

 

Were there ever any standards, or at least conventions, for the minimum distance of a railway track from the edge of the quay? I have up to a scale 20 feet available.

 

Please excuse me if this is the wrong place to ask, but maybe I can use someone else's knowledge or research!

 

- Richard.

[rue_d_etropal]

I suspect they crammed in as much as they could get away with, and when they needed more space they extended the quayside. As long as the boats could tie up then there wasn't a problem.

Central England(well probably more Wales) , I think there is still some narrow gauge track right next to one of the canals, and in some countries narrow gauge locos towed the boats. I would consider Manchester/East Lancashire as being inland, so my quayside is on one of the many canals.

 

I don't think my model is meant to be an exchange point between railway and canal, more likely the railway serves the same canalside buildings. In effect an industrial scene which happens to have a canal as well.

Google might come up with quite a lot of model quayside layouts, many of them are narrow gauge, but I have not seen many at exhibitions. I think one reason for this has been lack of suitable track, especially points, which is why i designed my 3D printed track system.

Quaysides quite often have very old buildings adapted for new uses, which makes them attractive. My model has relatively new buildings(post 1880s), and I want to show the shear scale of the buildings compared to their surroundings. No roof on the buildings, as they probably go up another couple of floors!

[47137]

I suspect they crammed in as much as they could get away with, and when they needed more space they extended the quayside. As long as the boats could tie up then there wasn't a problem.

. . . 

Yes indeed.

 

The important thing is to get right search term. A Google image search for "narrow gauge railway beside canal" returns almost entirely real railways, and there are examples beside the Worcester and Birmingham canal and at Cosgrove Wharf where there is barely the length of a brick between the track and the edge. I think I've got free hand here.

 

- Richard.

[rue_d_etropal]

Just started on laying stone sett sheets between tracks. Raised level with cardboard and glues 'topper' sheets using 'no nails' glue. Starting to look like a quayside.

Brickwork ordered, well half of it.

Track at front is very near to edge of canal.

[rue_d_etropal]

photos showing toppings added

 

Next I will paint some of the stone setts to see how it goes(emulsion paint, matchpots)

 

Area around the PL12 point adapter will be covered to crates or something similar. The PL12 sticks up too high.

[rue_d_etropal]

Brick panels arrived today. This means I can start on building the warehouses. So much to do now, as I have some new ideas for 3D printing, but not for this project.

Most of stone setts now laid, and first coat of paint(emulsion testpot as usual)

[rue_d_etropal]

the brickies have been busy, also some of the stone setts have been patched up.

a bit too much light, colour is more like this

this is how i assembled the brick panels. As they absorb any liquid, I use cheap super glue to 'weld' them together, with thing corrugated cardboard to add a bit more stability.
I plan to use windows from LCUT Creative. Again as they are card, superglue will stick them in place

[rue_d_etropal]

windows fitted, painted and glazed( tissue paper soaked in superglue). Windows are from LCUT.

Just in front of coupling is a simple uncoupler, using a small piece of paper sticking up, superglued to stone setts.
picture of other building. I am having to use flash on camera as I have decided to enclose the box on top. I will add LED strip to light it for operating. Because I then won't be able to see trains from back it will be operated from side.

[rue_d_etropal]

After a spell of design work on new 3D printed track, i got back to real model building, and the other two floors of warehouses are now up, with windows(LCUT) . Only temporarily positioned, as still need paint and glazing(tissue paper soaked in superglue). The canal is now full of water(?) and other things, but is not dry yet. One disadvantage of method I use is the time it takes to dry.

The wagon on turntable to the right, if you look carefully, has its coupling hook in raised position. I have used a variation of the grass strand uncoupler which Roger Nicholls has succesfully introduced on his layouts . In my case I have used a small piece of paper , folder and glued to stone setts. To stop hook coming down too quickly I have attached a small piece of sellatape to the bottom of the hook, so it does not drop immediately. My driving skills and motor quality mean I need a bit more time to stop loco , and reverse leaving wagon on turntable. I may remove coupling on other end of wagons as only single wagons will be shunted, but will not decide on this until I start test running properly.

I have just ordered some more track, this time my new code 75 sections for some dummy tram tracks on bridge. The trams no longer run, but the tracks are still in place. The story is that the road was widened when the new warehouses were built and trams introduced, so the bridge needed widening.

[rue_d_etropal]

It's been a while, but I wanted to get to an almost completed step before posting more pictures. It was taking time to get the 'water' to set. I use a water based glue, green in colour called I-GLU which I bought for a project a few years ago. I dries a bit like latex, so layers are built up . Sometimes it goes slightly wrong, so I had to wait till it finally set to make sure it was OK.

 

 

I need to add details and touch up the paint. More road vehicles(1940s era) . I suppose it really needs a 'smog' machine to create the atmosphere of wartime Manchester.