Moves at Limoges and other French Photos

[jamie92208]

31 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Jamie i'm no great expert on SNCf pacifics but I'm fairly sure that theh 231Es were 4 cylinder compounds - hence the large bore off the LP outside cylinders.  So I'm guessing that one valve is for the inside HP cylinder on that side of the engine plus the other is for the LP outside cylinder - which exhausts to the smokebox.  Typical Chapelon large valves to get the best possible steam circuit.

Thanks for that  Mike.  I wil have to dig further.  I have however done some googlng.  It was used mainly between Paris and Calais and SNCF gave it to the city of Tours in. 1974 where it was on outside display on a roundabout u till about 2014.  That certainly account's for the state of the paintwork and the rusty sheet metal work. The group obviously  have a lot of support from the city I wish them luck. 

 

Jamie

[jamie92208]

Good afternoon from the Charente.   We are still at Saint Pierre des Corps on the 22nd June 2023. The freights kept coming.  It's busy between 5 and about 7.30.  Here 27010 arrives with a mixed freight.  It would probably have passed our usual spot at Juille.

Next this motley collection of Infra locos arrived.

Meanwhile 66193 was shunting to detach a Millet rail hopper wagon.  The shunter is keeping safe.

Then two 674XX's came over the flyover before heading into the depot.   The one in maroon looked rather nice.

75055 then arrived with more ballast loads.

And Ryanair even made an appearance.   They are about to start extending the tramway to the airport which is just north of the city centre.

Hopefully more tomorrow.

 

Jamie

 

[brushman47544]

The Capitole maroon liveried 67400 class loco is 67613. I quite like it, even though no 67400s were painted in those colours originally.

Edited July 2, 2023 by brushman47544

[jamie92208]

Good afternoon from the Charente where it can't make it's mind up whether to rain or shine.  Here it's still 22nd June 2023 and we are still in Saint Pierre des Corps. B heading east.y now it was nearly 7.30 and the next freight was a 4000

That had a train of hoppers with small gravel in them.  It headed on under the flyover.

Then a rake of empty hoppers headed west behind two 75's.

That met another double header as it left with a 27/75 combo heading in with tankers.++

That was heading towards the yard.

By now things were quietening down and so we headed back to the car with a final photo of one of the G1000's at Imateq.

All in all a cracking day of good company, plenty of trains and a surprising discovery.

 

Jamie

 

 

[jamie92208]

8 days after our adventures at Tours we managed an afternoon out at our regular spot at Juille.  The weather wasn't the best but a helpful chef du gare at Ruffec had scribbled put a list of trains that were due.

First up was a regular northbound mixed freight with the sugar containers on the rear.  These are no longer a pristine white and several have been graffitied.

Then came the regular car train with a 186 in charge. This gives some idea of the length.

Another mixed freight with a 27 on was next.

Then a rare southbound full of colourful tanktainers.There was rain threatened so the farmers were desperately trying to get wheat harvested.  This was ne we passed on our way back north.

And while we waited for a mythical southbound that Andy assures me always follows the local passenger I got a shot of it discharging the grain.

Jamie

 

 

Edited July 5, 2023 by jamie92208

[jamie92208]

This week has been rather busy as we have had to pick friends up from two different airports and other things.  However serendipity has taken me to two railway stations. On Thursday 6th I had to go to Limoges but stopped at St Junien station a few miles away to eat my lunch. Tis is on the Limoges to Angouleme line that has been closed just to tha west for several years whilst various authorities argue as to who pays for track repairs.  There is still a commuter service of sorts to and from Limoges. Sadly the sign on the platform still shows trains to Angouleme.

A few minutes later the lunchtime service to Limoges appeared from Chabonniers The Chef du gare had just appeared.

Then yesterday I had to go to Niort and La Rochelle On my way to Niort I called at the Intermarche depot at Praheqe.  The wine tankers had obviously been recently as the rails were shiny but all I could see was the little shunting tractor.

 Then into Niort and on to La Rochelle. but couldn't get everything before the dreaded lunch hour so what else could I do but go and sit at the station whilst waiting for the shop to reopen. What should appear but 26119 heading slowly towards the docks branch with a grain train.   I copped a Sybic!

That pulled away to access the docks branch that turns left of the northbound line with the station of Port Dauphan part way along.   That's used to park trains out of the platforms.

After the freight had gone the train on the right came in from Angouleme and St Jean D'Angely then tre class B854ZZ came down from Nantes, both making connections into the double TGV Atlantique that was waiting to set off to Paris Montparnasse.

The 854's then headed off south towards Bordeaux via Saintes.

Two interesting little interludes.

 

Jamie

 

[EddieB]

Playing catch-up on this thread (on a day when Limoges is in Le Tour news for the saddest of reasons), here's a photo of the preserved 231E.41, as plinthed in St Pierre des Corps, May 1982.  There is also a classmate preserved in the National Collection at Mulhouse (231E.22 as Nord 3.1192).  These locos were new builds based on a Chapelon development of a Paris-Orleans design - all being 4-cylinder compounds.

 

Not wishing to be critical in any way of the efforts being made to restore this locomotive, I am reminded of another Pacific best described as a "long-term restoration project" at the Denis Papin Centre, Oignies (231C.78).  With limited resources and funding, these things can take depuis longtemps - despite the warmth and enthusiasm of the volunteers.

 

[jamie92208]

The group restoring the pacific  certainly seemed to be realistic and appeared to have funds.  The workshop is superb though I didn't have time to check out machine tools etc.  As a town with three railway workshops and a large working railway presence I suspect that there may well be a lot of experienced railwaymen involved in the project.  There estimate of ten years to completion was realistic.   It will be interesting to follow progress.

 

Jamie

[jamie92208]

Not a lot of trains have been seen in the last couple of weeks but I have managed an afternoon out with Andy. 13th July we didn't see many trains and it was rather grey and overcast but the afternoon was enlivened by the regular Infra train that had two 222xx's and two 60XXX's on it.

On the 21st it was our Model Railway group meeting which was held north west of Poitiers.   Lyn our hostess, lost her husband just over a year ago but wants to keep his railway going.   There is a 00 layout based on Lavenham in Suffolk and an outdoor 0 gauge layout known as the Any level line.  It has never run reliably on 12DC.   To try and cure this three of us teamed up to produce a radio controlled system.   Paul converted two locos so that they could be plugged into a battery/receiver wagon.  I donated the wagon and made the roof removable. Richard sourced and specked the radio gear.   We gave one of the locos a test run and here it is.   

The radio system worked a treat but some trackwork needs some tlc.   Lyn was quite emotional but very happy.  Her grandchildren will be driving it in August.

 

On the way home I stopped at St Saviol and watched this Regiolis unit head south/

Just north of the station is a huge grain elevator complex that is rail served with three electrified branches.  Sadly there were no trains being loaded but I did find this, which our transatlantic friends would call a critter.  

Jamie

[jamie92208]

Andy and I had a grand afternoon/evening out on Monday.  No doubt our respective other halves will seek recompense but we enjoyed ourselves sitting on Angouleme station.  There wasn't as much freight as we would have liked but after a northbound this appeared from the south.

4026 on cement tanks from the works a few miles to the south.   Their siding faces north so the train has to come up to Angouleme to run round.

Here the loco is bringing the train back south after running round.

The cement train heads down to Bordeaux then hooks east towards Toulouse.

 

The next freight brought us an Akiem class 27, 27167 with it's own last mile shunter in tow. The train was an intermodal container train.

They stopped for a crew change then were off.

Several TGV's were around this one was heading towards Bordeaux.

This one was a double set

More tomorrow.

 

Jamie

 

[jamie92208]

Good afternoon from the Charente, the sun is even making an appearance.  Wonders never cease.

 

Anyway here is the 2nd batch of photos from Monday 31st July when Andy and I were at Angouleme. By now it was past 6pm and passenger traffic increased with two B81XXX's waiting to depart for Poitiers on the left and Bordeaux on the right.

Then a surprise at 18.50 when a Captrain E4001 headed north with a fairly short train. Andy and I were so close to it and the numbers are so small that neither of us ID'd the loco.   Turdycurses.

One of the fw remaining Atlantique sets then came in on a Bordeaux service.

At 20.40  southbound signal cleared and 66240 appeared with the only southbound freight of the day.

It's train was a lengthy rake of tankers.

3 minutes later 27167, a cop for me headed north with an intermodal, followed 5 minutes later by 186 166 also on an intermodal.   The light was dimmer and the headlights were so bright I couldn't get photos of these as we were both concentrating on getting the numbers.

At the same time as the 186 passed B81748 appeared from the Royan/Cognac direction.

Several more TGV's appeared but by 22.30 the station was being gradually locked up so we moved over to platform 1 before heading home.

 

All in all a grand day out.

 

Jamie

[Ben B]

I'm just catching up on this thread, after two weeks in the French Alps. I'd forgotten just how interesting French railways are, after a decade away. I think it's the contrasts, with flashy modern passenger trains and TGV's on high speed lines, and overgrown branch lines through derelict-looking stations that see the odd freight train hauled by a monster of a diesel from the 1960's :)

 

Where we were, near Moutiers, the regular service was being operated by older electric locos on push-pull sets, there were lots of semi-abandoned goods yards and the like, isolated factory systems with their own shunters, that sort of thing. Fascinating!

[jamie92208]

I had to go to a funeral last week at Angouleme so met a former colleague on the station for a natter before we headed for the crem.  Our conversation was drowned out a lot of the time by a group of workers with strimmers and a brush cutter reducing the vegetation between the platforms.  All well protected by loomoutslbut things looked better after they'd gone. 

 

Jamie

[JeffP]

7 hours ago, Ben B said:

I'm just catching up on this thread, after two weeks in the French Alps. I'd forgotten just how interesting French railways are, after a decade away. I think it's the contrasts, with flashy modern passenger trains and TGV's on high speed lines, and overgrown branch lines through derelict-looking stations that see the odd freight train hauled by a monster of a diesel from the 1960's :)

 

Where we were, near Moutiers, the regular service was being operated by older electric locos on push-pull sets, there were lots of semi-abandoned goods yards and the like, isolated factory systems with their own shunters, that sort of thing. Fascinating!

But sadly, a pale imitation of itself 25 years ago, when every small town with a station had a yard, often with a small shunter present, and always with wagons.

Every place near a railway was rail connected, again, often with ex-SNCF small shunters present.

Large towns had bustling yards with shunters and often half a dozen main line locos stabled.

And most sheds were welcoming to enthusiasts.

And freight wasn't all on the roads.

All gone now, mostly due to EU meddling.🤔

[Ben B]

30 minutes ago, JeffP said:

But sadly, a pale imitation of itself 25 years ago, when every small town with a station had a yard, often with a small shunter present, and always with wagons.

Every place near a railway was rail connected, again, often with ex-SNCF small shunters present.

Large towns had bustling yards with shunters and often half a dozen main line locos stabled.

And most sheds were welcoming to enthusiasts.

And freight wasn't all on the roads.

All gone now, mostly due to EU meddling.🤔

 

I noticed a few overgrown lines along the way- just south of Reims we crossed a single-track route which steeply climbed a hill on one side of the autoroute, in the other was a massive grain silo and a great fan of sidings. I spent some time on google earth following it, the rails were shiny and some stock was to be seen. 

 

When we were driving from Albertville to St. Gervaise we were on a road which ran alongside a line, which dived (on a double track level crossing) to a steelworks. I figured it abandoned, but on the way back there were workers and road-rail machines along it, so maybe it's reopening.

 

To be honest I assumed France had gone the way we have, and caved to the road lobby when it comes to freight haulage...

[brushman47544]

3 hours ago, JeffP said:

All gone now, mostly due to EU meddling.🤔

The UK was of course one of the leading advocates for the first railways package that included Directive 91/440, which started the liberalisation process across the EU.

[Andy Hayter]

And somewhat perversely in France some industrial/agricultural lines have remained open with smaller independent operators running the service where SNCF Fret (as was) showing a lack of interest.  Some of these independent have grown, other have inevitably been taken over.  

[jamie92208]

Rail freight did take a big dive and became very sparse mainly due to strikes which lost a lot of traffic.  The private operators have grown and traffic does appear to have recovered a bit.  There are moves afoot to reduce all the back door subsidies that Fret SNCF has been getting so we will probably see more private operators.  Yes there are rail served facilities but many are moribund. 

 

Jamie

Edited August 21, 2023 by jamie92208

[jamie92208]

Good afternoon from a bright but cooler Charente.   For various domestic reasons I didn't manage to get out for a couple of weeks but things have settled down so Andy and I had an afternoon out last Friday.

Before we met I had called at Ruffec and been told that there would be no freight till 3pm but we set off anyway and put the world to rights over a coffee and some cake.   Sure enough nothing happened but the opening of a bottle of beer worked wonders and a TGV appeared heading north from Angouleme.

it was a double unit running as usual on this chord with it's pantographs down ready for the voltage changeover onto 25 KV from 1500 DC.

After that it wasn't long till this appeared.

The first entry into the book heading up from Hendaye with imported cars.    I'm not sure what make the cars are.  That maes my score of 86's 10 for the year.   Good going.

However half the train was empty.

Then a bit of a wait till the regular LPG and steel train appeared behind 27016 and 27094, both under power.

094 was another line in the book.

 

Then it was time to head home but just as we went under the line near Andy's house 26133 headed north with empty car carriers.   That was a third line in the book and took my score of Sybics to just over 50% of the locos still in service.   All in all a good afternoon out.

 

Jamie

 

[jamie92208]

Last Thursday I had another time out to Ruffec.  Some shopping was needed so after that I headed to the station to see what was happening.   Not a lot as there were track gangs working south of the station.   There appeared to have been some work done in the run down sidings area with the access road much improved and piles of new stone to be spread.

In the background you can see the Leclerc's distribution depot which is being doubled in size.

It looks as if the rails from the removed sidings are next to the road.  

The remaining sidings end at the buffer stops.

There looks to be a chance of the distribution centre getting served by rail.  If so it will be a welcome sight.

After lunch  I headed down to Andy's and we set off to Juille.

First  Up was the regular infra working which had 4 Locos on it. Two 75xxx's. a 222xx and a 69xxx.. My camera wasn't set up so a snatched shot resulted. 

I needed a 75 and Andy needed both plus the 69.

Missed a photo of 7256 but it was a cop for me.  Then 186 312 appeared on a car train. 

Another line in the book for me.  This working was better loaded than the previous week.  Just two empty twin sets near the rear

 

Then a TGV coasted past heading north. 

Finally on our way home this BiBi came past in better light. 

 

Aall a good afternoon out.

4 Locos on it

Jamie

 

Edited September 8, 2023 by jamie92208

[jamie92208]

Apologies to readers for the above post.  I've edited it three times now and each time text has gone missing.  I will make one final attempt to correct it later. 

 

Jamie

Edited September 8, 2023 by jamie92208

[phil-b259]

On 14/08/2023 at 17:02, JeffP said:

 

All gone now, mostly due to EU meddling.🤔

 

What rot!

 

The survival of all those yards was simply due doe the French Government continuing to shovel huge amounts of subsidy SNCFs way for decades and not caring whether it was being used effectively.

 

Small consignments / wagon load freight has not been profitable for railways for many decades, particularly in countries with a good motorway network (like France) and where the Government are unwilling to subsidise it (as in the UK) then railways have stopped carrying it.

 

All that you have noted is that the French (and many other EU states) have simply been willing to bank roll loss making activities for longer than the British were prepared to do.

 

Now there is also NOTHING in EU rules which prevent subsides being offered to encourage modal transfer of freight to rail or the retention of freight flows on rail - its just such monies must be available to all operators and not restricted to state incumbents. Moreover with many of these new private operators that have flourished under EU rules, because they are not saddled with restrictive staff T&Cs / Union agreements the state incumbents have, they are actually in a far better position than the likes of SNCF to keep freight on the rails instead of abandoning it to roads.

 

 

[JeffP]

Would that it were so.

Do some reading and you'll find that the demise of wagon load freight is directly attributable to the beginning of private operators, who are only interested in profitable mostly long haul stuff.

SNCF were able to subsidise wagon loads with the profits from the long haul stuff.

They can no longer do so, and wagon loads are on the roads.😒 

Meanwhile, rural back roads are being destroyed by 44+tonne trucks, and the right hand lanes of previously fluid motorways are an endless stream of trucks....while freight yards lie idle.

[Fat Controller]

23 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

 

What rot!

 

The survival of all those yards was simply due doe the French Government continuing to shovel huge amounts of subsidy SNCFs way for decades and not caring whether it was being used effectively.

 

Small consignments / wagon load freight has not been profitable for railways for many decades, particularly in countries with a good motorway network (like France) and where the Government are unwilling to subsidise it (as in the UK) then railways have stopped carrying it.

 

All that you have noted is that the French (and many other EU states) have simply been willing to bank roll loss making activities for longer than the British were prepared to do.

 

Now there is also NOTHING in EU rules which prevent subsides being offered to encourage modal transfer of freight to rail or the retention of freight flows on rail - its just such monies must be available to all operators and not restricted to state incumbents. Moreover with many of these new private operators that have flourished under EU rules, because they are not saddled with restrictive staff T&Cs / Union agreements the state incumbents have, they are actually in a far better position than the likes of SNCF to keep freight on the rails instead of abandoning it to roads.

 

 

The ironic thing being that many of the 'private' operators are owned by companies that are state-owned in their own countries.

[jamie92208]

Good afternoon from a sweltering Charente.   I got over to Ruffec yesterday for a short time and had half an hour on the station.   As I got near I saw a shunter in the sidings at the head of a rake of bogie ballast flats.

When I got onto the station the chef du gare came out for a chat and it transpires that the sidings are not going to be used for Leclerc's traffic but for loading ballast for trackwork near Luxe to the south.  He also told me that a freight was heading north and at 15.36 this appeared/

67516 on the Infra train.  It looked better looking north.

He then told me that due to a problem at Libourne there would be nothing for another 90 minutes so I headed back home to make tea,   When I check the number of the class 212 it turned out to be 212 015.  I needed both locos so another quick 2 lines in the book.

 

Jamie

 

Edited September 8, 2023 by jamie92208