Problem using labels.

[JimF51]

I'm building the Station Master's kit from Fine Scale Buildings, printing on self stick label stock.

 

The instructions have you stick the window templates on clear sheet, then cut out. Worked well, until I tried to peel the template from the clear sheet.

 

It acted just like taking a label off anything, it did not peel off cleanly, leaving some layers of paper, or just adhesive residue on the clear plastic.

 

I have a cleaner that is made for this, removes sticker residue without harming the item surface, but that will just add time to a project, especially one that might have a lot more windows.

 

It might be the plastic I used, it was just some cheap packaging stuff I had laying around.

 

I'll buy some quality clear styrene later today, and see if that helps.

 

Anyone else run into this, perhaps, and have suggestions?

 

Thanks.

 

Jim F

[Graham Walters]

I always print windows onto OHP acetate, let it dry thoroughly before touching it, always worked out fine for me.

[Howl03]

I'm building the Station Master's kit from Fine Scale Buildings, printing on self stick label stock.

 

The instructions have you stick the window templates on clear sheet, then cut out. Worked well, until I tried to peel the template from the clear sheet.

 

It acted just like taking a label off anything, it did not peel off cleanly, leaving some layers of paper, or just adhesive residue on the clear plastic.

 

I have a cleaner that is made for this, removes sticker residue without harming the item surface, but that will just add time to a project, especially one that might have a lot more windows.

 

It might be the plastic I used, it was just some cheap packaging stuff I had laying around.

 

I'll buy some quality clear styrene later today, and see if that helps.

 

Anyone else run into this, perhaps, and have suggestions?

 

Thanks.

 

Jim F

Hi Jim

I have built a lot of Scalescenes kits that I print on self stick labels, I always cut the windows out first before I stick them to clear plastic.

Hope this helps.

Regards

Howl03

[JimF51]

Guys, thanks for the replies. Yes, for most kits, like those from Scalescenes, I have done both, printing to clear material and or cutting out the material and applying the printed window.

 

This kit is different, in that it has a full interior. You cut out a outer wall, and apply the outer printed surface. You then cut out a blank inner wall and glue to the inside of the outer wall. This inner wall has openings larger than the window openings in the outer wall.

 

You then use templates to cut out the clear material. This gives you a piece of clear that fills the opening in the interior wall, after you peel off the template and stick the actual printed window on.

 

With windows installed, you then apply the printed interior wall sheet.

 

Anyway, I bought some .020 clear styrene, and had a go at it again. I also, per my wife's suggestion (bless her) tapped my fingers lightly all over the sticky back of the template for a few seconds. This left the backing less sticky, and after I cut out the window, the template peeled off much more cleanly. So I think problem is solved, fingers crossed.

 

Thanks again.

 

Jim F

[Chubber]

Sorry, Jim, late to this one....

 

Yes, Mem'Saab is spot on, I too press the window prints only lightly when applying them to the glazing before lifting a corner of the cut 'pane' with a scalpel tip prior to removing it with tweezers.

 

I believe it is important to carefully burnish the glazing bars firmly in place with a small smooth round tool to avoid detachment when weathering etc.

 

Glad you have got it sorted, don't forget to post a picture or two ....

 

Doug

[frankw]

Hi Jim,

 

I just knew you would both sort it out yourself AND also get useful advice from this excellent forum

 

My little bit of advice, as I mentioned in the email I sent you was to cut out and remove the window pane excess (as Chubber recommends with a scalpel and tweezers) as soon as you have stuck the label to the transparent material, before the label glue has set too firmly.

 

I am wondering what material the label could be stuck to first that would mirror your "sticky finger tapping" method but not transfer itself to the label or stick too firmly to it. A dishwashing sponge perhaps?

 

I can feel some experimentation coming on

 

Regards, Frank

[JimF51]

Frank, for my next experiment, I placed the label down on a section of the cheap clear plastic I was 1st using and lifted it back up again immediately. Then repeated that one more time. Then placed it on the good styrene and cut it all out. The template lifted fine, just a hint of film from the adhesive. A quick swipe with bit of a paper towel dampened with Goo Gone cleaned that up perfectly.

 

Goo Gone is the brand name of a liquid product sold over here, made to remove stickers and or the residue from them. I'm sure there is a UK equivalent, if not available by that name.

 

I'm bad about remembering to take pics while I am working, but will try. If not, I definitely will, when finished, though right now, that might be a while.

 

Jim F

[JimF51]

Since Graham mentioned it in his reply, I'll bring up printing on clear acetate here, as well.

 

Earlier this morning, I printed out the windows for a 3DK kit on clear acetate. They printed out fine, no smudging.

 

I put it aside, flat, to dry. Just looked at it, and the ink had bled, all along the edgesof the windows, and into the window pane areas. Not salvageable at all.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Jim F

[JimF51]

The stuff I have doesn't specify anything about overhead projector, just says it's printable.

 

Jim F

[ejgray52]

I use the A4 peel-off labels from Staples, the office suppliers. About £12 a box, but never had any problems peeling off the waste bits from windows etc. You do get 100 in a box, so quite cost effective really. Only problem I have had so far is that some of the very fine window bars can peel off with the waste - happened a couple of times- so I bone them down before lifting, with a stylus from an old Palm Pilot. In addition I sometimes just print the windows from the kit repeated several times to act as spares or stock for any future modified buildings etc. An example - building a Superquick Coaling Tower I found at the back of a cupboard at the moment, the window sheet was missing - time to get the spares out!

[frankw]

Jim, regarding printing on transparency. You must use the correct transparency film for your type of printer. For instance, the inkjet film must be inserted a particular way as one side is specially treated to accept the ink. If you print on the wrong side the effect you have described usually happens. The film I use for my inkjet has a thin paper strip along one edge to tell you the side you have to print on.

 

I hope this helps.

[28XX]

I'm a bit OCD about stickers. I hate 'em. I have a habit of peeling them off even when it's not really necessary.

 

When new there is a good chance they will come off in one pull, but as they get older the glue gets stronger and the paper gets weaker. Eventually the paper goes yellow and the glue turns to powder.

 

I'm a bit concerned that all these sticky label window frames will deteriorate over a few years, sooner that the builders would like.

 

In comparison windows in the Superquick buildings of the '60's are as good as new.

[JimF51]

Frank, never thought of that! This clear acetate came in a pad, like note paper. No strip, but each sheet is backed by a sheet of thin paper like material. Maybe that's the side I need to try and print on. I'll give it a shot in a bit, see if that helps.

 

28XX, true, some stickers definitely do deteriorate like that. Lots of my wife's craft items still have price labels of various types and sizes on them that are much like you describe. I have hobby items similar.

 

On the flip side, though, I have items I bought back 15 years ago, from the model train store I worked at, that the stickers almost look like applied yesterday. The ones stuck on plastic surfaces seem to hold up much better than those applied to card or paper surfaces.

 

Besides, we're talking about card kits here, so, if they do deteriorate, I'll just build a new one as replacement, if I'm still around LOL

 

Thanks all.

 

Jim F

[Izzy]

I don't use clear plasticard for windows anymore, but just salvage and use the clear packaging material lots of products come in these days. There is usually large flat areas you can cut out and save. I have found that whatever this is made from these days (I haven't a clue) - it seems to vary quite a bit as regards colour and thickness which is handy -  it doesn't seem to scratch as easily and looks more like glass, less opaque and more reflective.

 

I also use Staples A4 labels to print onto and find no problem removing the excess bits cleanly and easily, use a scalpel blade to lift under one corner and it all comes away easily if you pull it with a pair of tweezers.

 

Izzy

[JimF51]

Frank, and all, my second attempt, using the other side of the clear acetate bore the same results as the first, so I don't think this stuff is suited for it.

 

I stopped in my local Staples, and they can do it, have a printer just for producing things like overhead projector transparencies. It not only prints it, but if I understood correctly, it dries it, as well.

 

So, for a lot, lot less than the price of a package of the acetate, I can get a couple of sheets printed out there.

 

So with that sorted for the 3DK kit, the label issue sorted for my Fine Scale Buildings kit, my Scalescenes station kit just needing plain clear material, and the canal lock and narrow boat not needing any bl**dy windows, I think it should be clear sailing from this point on!

 

Thanks all.

 

Jim F

[Graham Walters]

Since Graham mentioned it in his reply, I'll bring up printing on clear acetate here, as well.

 

Earlier this morning, I printed out the windows for a 3DK kit on clear acetate. They printed out fine, no smudging.

 

I put it aside, flat, to dry. Just looked at it, and the ink had bled, all along the edgesof the windows, and into the window pane areas. Not salvageable at all.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Jim F

 

I always buy OHP film, it's different from other printable acetates because it has a rough side and a smooth side, you print on the rough side, this stops the bleeding you speak of, you also have to dry it on a flat surface, or the ink will run.

 

The other possible reason for bleeding is too much ink, try setting the printer to draft and see if that helps.

[14Steve14]

It is possible to buy removable labels in one to a page, which others have suggested using on other forums. I have never tried to see how well they work. Whilst it may be easier to peel off the waste material when doing things like white or coloured window frames, I do wonder how long the window frame that is left will stay stuck to the acetate.  Some people always use this type of sticker and have no problems.

[JimF51]

Steve, that's what I'm using, single sheet sized labels. So far, current projects are working out well with them.

 

Regarding your window question, I just last week threw out a US HO scale structure I made fro a card kit, about 10 years ago. The lit was printed out on paper and glued to card, as most do nowadays, but, the windows had been cut from labels, and applied to clear acetate. The rest of the structure was faded, dusty and a bit warped, due to poor storage mainly, all these years, but the windows were still fine, sills still stuck fast. I pulled them off, and are in a envelope, for possible future use.

 

Jim F

[Chubber]

I always buy OHP film, it's different from other printable acetates because it has a rough side and a smooth side, you print on the rough side, this stops the bleeding you speak of, you also have to dry it on a flat surface, or the ink will run.

 

The other possible reason for bleeding is too much ink, try setting the printer to draft and see if that helps.

 

Many current printers do not support transparency printing as the preferred method of giving presentations [slide-shows in old money...]is by computer projector. Graham is quite right, you must print on the grainy side to avoid bleed-out, and if there is no succinct setting for transparencies on your Money-Eater [sorry, Printer...] I suggest using 'Ultra Glossy Paper' setting.

 

Further, as stark dense black window-framing seldom looks very realistic you can knock back the 'fresh-out-of-the-box' look by dusting the printout generously with talcum powder the second it emerges from the printer. Allow to rest for at least an hour and then send SWMBO to the shops  whilst you raid her camouflage  make-up  bag. You are looking for a 'blender-brush'. a gert fluffy ultra-soft brush with which you may carefully brush away any loose talc residue after shaking the majority off into the bath, or other large receptacle that you can easily clean/rinse out.

 

Caveats - put the brush back straight away, do not get it wet or it will be cream-crackered; remember to put away the talc; open the windows to get rid of the odour or be prepared to explain why you needed talc. Chafed thighs...?

 

Alternatively, go to Boots and ask an assistant for one, be sure to do so in a gruff voice and take care it's not the one she sees when he buys her camou make-up.

 

'Hullo Mrs Jones, you'll never guess what your husband was buying last week......'

 

Doug

[14Steve14]

Steve, that's what I'm using, single sheet sized labels. So far, current projects are working out well with them.

 

Regarding your window question, I just last week threw out a US HO scale structure I made fro a card kit, about 10 years ago. The lit was printed out on paper and glued to card, as most do nowadays, but, the windows had been cut from labels, and applied to clear acetate. The rest of the structure was faded, dusty and a bit warped, due to poor storage mainly, all these years, but the windows were still fine, sills still stuck fast. I pulled them off, and are in a envelope, for possible future use.

 

Jim F

But was that the labels that are specifically removable. They have a different adhesive than the ordinary labels. I know the ordinary labels work fine. I have test build models with lovely windows made this way, just not sure about using the removable labels.

[JimF51]

Ah, ok, missed the word 'removable'. Good question as to how long they would last.

 

However, my original question concerned window frame templates. It calls for printing these out, and applying to clear material to guide cutting the material. They get removed, after all is cut, and printed color window frames are applied. The reason is to make 2 part windows, for more relief detail, and allowing some to be assembled open.

 

So for this application, maybe removable type labels would work better. The problem is solved, for me, at the moment, but will try removable labels the next time.

 

Jim F

[CourthsVeil]

…

Allow to rest for at least an hour and then send SWMBO to the shops  whilst you raid her camouflage  make-up  bag.

…

Caveats - … open the windows to get rid of the odour or be prepared to explain why you needed talc. Chafed thighs...?

 

Alternatively, go to Boots and ask an assistant for one, be sure to do so in a gruff voice and take care it's not the one she sees when he buys her camou make-up.

 

'Hullo Mrs Jones, you'll never guess what your husband was buying last week......'

 

Doug

 

There's another way I prefer to walk: make the Good Lady your accomplice.    

 

In the a.m. store: "Honey, I really don't like to spoil your incredible lovely assortment of thingies (aka camouflage bag) – would you be so kind to show me where I may find those fluffy brushes ? Need one for my weathering tasks…"

 

Works well.    

HTH

 

   Armin

 

PS: similar approach goes for strainers, bowls, knifes, etc.

 

How do I know? In a former life I heard her exclaim "Ahh, there's my salad bowl!" Had borrowed (!) it to put the ingredients of paper maché together… Was a bit stained & smelly…    

[Chubber]

By CV 

"How do I know? In a former life I heard her exclaim "Ahh, there's my salad bowl!" Had borrowed (!) it to put the ingredients of paper maché together… Was a bit stained & smelly…   "

 

 

Yes, I know the feeling, I was certain that I could wash dilute P.V.A. out of a pastry-brush.....but I forgot to.

 

D

[Campaman]

Been caught a couple of times, used the pestle and mortar to crush a piece of coal, forgot to clean it out and put it back, borrowed her flour sieve to grade some sawdust, thought I had cleaned it out but some remnants were spotted.

 

I was marched down Poundland and told to pick what I needed :-)

[14Steve14]

At least you have your own now.