Alan Kettlewell Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Hello All, My first post on this group as I'm planning a large layout based around the Tyrol region on the corner of Switzerland, Austria and Germany. It will be a large layout with (double) track gaining height through spiral tunnels and will feature three levels of track. It will be a continuous run plan and I estimate that the overall distance from start (say, the main station) and back to the start to be about 6 scale miles. To have some authenticity such a layout will require plenty of electric locos and of course overhead catenary - and a lot of it! Looking around at ready made catenary options I reckon the cost would be at least £15 per foot run for double track- ok, in metric as it's continental, almost £50 a metre - and that's just on plain track runs. I should add that I wouldn't need operational catenary, just as long as it looks good. Some track will of course be in tunnels where I wouldn't model catenary but, given the length of open track work I'm facing quite a heavy cost. So I'm wondering if anyone with a good knowledge of HO catenary systems and what's available out there might give me a steer as to an economical way of buying - or making - catenary. Perhaps someone has already come up with a way to do this without necessarily spending thousands! Grateful for your input. Many thanks. Regards Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted July 15, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 15, 2015 As the Wires are virtually invisible in real life you could just put in the masts and fix the pantographs at a set height using fishing line. Apart from that I'm afraid secondhand bundles are the only way to save really as building it yourself would take forever. On my HOm Swiss layout I used rail mounted on hoops, effectively croquet hoops, made from brass wire in the hidden tunnel sections. The catenary wire was soldered to the side and the end of the rail bent up slightly to give a smooth transition. The rail was also bent to follow the curve and was reliable over ten years including 7 years trundling back and forth to shows. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 For catenary on a budget try Winco. They import the HObbex Catenary system which is very good value, (well under half of what you seem to be quoting above) and will give a reasonable representation although not exactly finescale. http://www.winco.uk.com/HObbexmain.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted July 15, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 15, 2015 As the Wires are virtually invisible in real life you could just put in the masts and fix the pantographs at a set height using fishing line. I second Paul's suggestion. Not only does it save you the cost of the wire but it enables you to put the masts at scale distances from each other (which will mean about half the number of masts). Any system of wires that looks good will cost a lot of money. But if you do decide that you have to have wires, it might be worth your while to have your own etched. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Kettlewell Posted July 18, 2015 Author Share Posted July 18, 2015 Many thanks for the replies. I would have to see what catenary without wires looks like before deciding whether or not to add them. Fortunately as the masts go up first it's a logical process. The masts from Dapol are relatively inexpensive - although perhaps not a good representation of those on the continent. Well, plenty of time yet as I'm still finishing the insulation, interior walling and painting of my new 'big shed', so starting on my new layout is still a while away. Although I have been enjoying myself recently, building a collection of some continental stock from Fleischmann, Roco, Trix etc - some great high quality stuff and I'm equally enjoying the thought of running some fabulous modern continental trains. Thanks again Regards Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted July 18, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 18, 2015 Many thanks for the replies. I would have to see what catenary without wires looks like before deciding whether or not to add them. Fortunately as the masts go up first it's a logical process. The masts from Dapol are relatively inexpensive - although perhaps not a good representation of those on the continent. Well, plenty of time yet as I'm still finishing the insulation, interior walling and painting of my new 'big shed', so starting on my new layout is still a while away. Although I have been enjoying myself recently, building a collection of some continental stock from Fleischmann, Roco, Trix etc - some great high quality stuff and I'm equally enjoying the thought of running some fabulous modern continental trains. Thanks again Regards Alan Not quite that easy. If you think that you do want commercially-produced wires, you will need to space the posts to take account of the lengths that are available. Even if you want to make your own, the masts will probably need to be a bit closer as 1) 1:87 wires sag more than the real thing and 2) model railway curves are much tighter radius than the real thing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Hello All, My first post on this group as I'm planning a large layout based around the Tyrol region on the corner of Switzerland, Austria and Germany. It will be a large layout with (double) track gaining height through spiral tunnels and will feature three levels of track. It will be a continuous run plan and I estimate that the overall distance from start (say, the main station) and back to the start to be about 6 scale miles. To have some authenticity such a layout will require plenty of electric locos and of course overhead catenary - and a lot of it! Looking around at ready made catenary options I reckon the cost would be at least £15 per foot run for double track- ok, in metric as it's continental, almost £50 a metre - and that's just on plain track runs. I should add that I wouldn't need operational catenary, just as long as it looks good. Some track will of course be in tunnels where I wouldn't model catenary but, given the length of open track work I'm facing quite a heavy cost. So I'm wondering if anyone with a good knowledge of HO catenary systems and what's available out there might give me a steer as to an economical way of buying - or making - catenary. Perhaps someone has already come up with a way to do this without necessarily spending thousands! Grateful for your input. Many thanks. Regards Alan Alan, I'm in the same boat as you. I have a 24'x24' basement layout space and am considering the options. Dapol makes an acceptable catenary system but I have yet to try it. I plan on modeling the OBB in the 1990's. Most of the OBB masts that I've seen in videos are lattice girders, however I would be willing to accept an inexpensive compromise. One thing that I've considered making is a mast system using brass square tubes with the arm soldered to it. I may skip stringing the wire for practical reasons like track cleaning and access. Anyhow, it's food for thought. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Dapol makes an acceptable catenary system. Dapol does not make any catenary at all, let alone a system! All they make is a couple of masts. Sure there is the promise of some catenary wires later this year, and maybe some other mast types late next year, but the pre-production shots of the wires show a very poor effort, especially when they have had so long to perfect them - they were included in the 2012 catalouge... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Dapol does not make any catenary at all, let alone a system! All they make is a couple of masts. Sure there is the promise of some catenary wires later this year, and maybe some other mast types late next year, but the pre-production shots of the wires show a very poor effort, especially when they have had so long to perfect them - they were included in the 2012 catalouge... http://Dapol.co.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=177_62_150 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 As I said, that is just a couple of masts to support a catenary hence the term 'catenary masts'. There is as yet no catenary system for them to support, let alone an acceptable one, or indeed any of the other types of mast required for things like crossovers, more than two tracks etc. etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Kettlewell Posted September 11, 2015 Author Share Posted September 11, 2015 Well, I was planning a Swiss layout based around the Tyrol region on the corner of Southern Germany, Austria and Switzerland. Having raised this topic about catenary for my layout it seems right to update it. I had reckoned the cost of catenary for my planned layout at around £1000. Anyway, I bagged an enormous amount of used Somerfeldt catenary put up on eBay by Rails of Sheffield. Counting all the parts when it all arrived I reckon there's over £1000 there if bought new - so I'm very happy to have paid £325 for it! All sorts are included, over 200 standard masts, 30 odd main masts, a few dozen double centre masts, a handful of tensioner masts, a few dozen simple masts of the type used for rack & pinion railways (which I have in my plan) plus loads of catenary wire sets in various lengths. All up I'm well pleased. The only thing is it's all German. Not a drama, I'll be sticking with the same overall plan but basing the layout in Southern Germany instead. Just have to change to right hand running as per DB which isn't a hardship as most of the plan is mainline double track, just the station area to redesign. I guess I'll have to continue this thread over in the Germany modellin section! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted September 11, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 11, 2015 Given the size of layout you are planning, I think that you would have been in for far more than £1000. So to make a big dent in the project for just £325 looks like a real bargain. Sounds as though you will still need more though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Kettlewell Posted September 12, 2015 Author Share Posted September 12, 2015 You may well be right Joseph. I don't intend to make working catenary, it's just for show, so I won't be requiring any in tunnels and hidden sections, time will tell if I need more. What will be really handy are the Somerfeldt parts and instruction booklets that came with the job lot I bought, it's quite interesting seeing how it all comes together, more complicated than one might think. Yesterday was a leap forward as, having finally completed work on my new big shed, I began constructing the framework for the layout - exciting! Regards Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Madog Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 If rhe region of your choice is the western part of Tyrolia, then German style catenary is not at all out of place. In fact, there is little difference between Austrian und german prototype catenary of the early years, when that region was cahnged to electric traction. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Kettlewell Posted September 16, 2015 Author Share Posted September 16, 2015 Hi Sir Madog, Many thanks for the info, it's all very useful and demonstrates the advantages of the forum. I'll be modelling modern image though so do you know when the German style catenary in Austria was replaced? Thanks. Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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