Speedlink Formation Question

[The Pilotman]

A question for those with experience of TOPS and/or freight marshalling matters...

When forming up a Speedlink freight at the yard of origin, what factors would determine the order in which the wagons were coupled? To give a basic (I hope) example:

 

A Speedlink freight is to run from yard 1 to yard 2. It will be formed of 4 wagons tripped from two sources: siding A and siding B. When it reaches yard 2, those wagons will be split and tripped to two further sidings: C and D. For this example, say one wagon is going from siding A to siding C, another from A to D, one from B to C and one from B to D. Would yard 1 form up the train to minimise shunting at their end or would they do it to minimise shunting at yard 2? In other words would the train leave yard 1 as AC AD BC BD or as AC BC AD BD? Hope that makes sense.

 

In writing this I am making 2 assumptions:

1) The answer will start, "it depends..."

2) Rivercider will probably give the best answer

 

Thanks.

Edited August 27, 2015 by Western Aviator

[Glorious NSE]

My gut feeling would be that unless there is a specific need to do it differently (say the train is split somewhere and so needs to be in a certain order with no messing about, or yard 2 doesn't have the capability to do much) then yard 1 will add the wagons into the train probably in whatever order they receive them - or at least  the order they deal with the inbound arrivals - and yard 2 gets to work out what order it all needs to be to leave their yard.

[mjkerr]

Trains from Aberdeen were usually marshalled so that en-route any portions were simply detached from the rear and the train could continue to its final destination
Each receiving yard then shunted, as required

As an example
Loco - London - Birmingham - Newcastle - Edinburgh

However, the yards en-route could also add wagons, so would also normally be to the rear
The idea was to batch destinations together
At Edinburgh only wagons for Newcastle would be added
At Newcastle only wagons for Birmingham would be added

[Simon Lee]

Hi,

 

Speedlink services were marshalled by "TAG", essentially a 3 figure code generated by the TOPS destination code.

 

I worked at Dover during the Speedlink time and as an example we had a service to Bescot and Warrington that called at Willesden, it would have been marshalled as follows :-

 

Loco

 

Detaching at Willesden TOPS Location number 72230

Tag 722

 

Detaching at Warrington Arpley TOPS location number 35550

Tag 363

Tag 352

 

Detaching at Bescot TOPS location number 65700

Tag 652

 

The Willesden / Warrington / Bescot numbers were known as TRA (TOPS Responsibility Area) codes all sidings/terminals in this area had a TOPS number beginning with the first two numbers of the TRA and as offices closed sometimes adjacent area Warrington for example took over Liverpool 36100 area and it was these location numbers that generated the TAG.

 

For example Liverpool Spekeland Road was 36178, Round Oak is still 65725,  Wolverhampton is 65050.

 

To us at Dover all Bescot traffic was a 652,  Liverpool was 363, Warrington 352, Willesden 722  so we would from a train up to the agreed formations which were published at least every timetable change.

 

Once the train left each yard TOPS would generate a consist for the receiving yard, with new TAGS that were unique to the receiving yard and they would plan their forward trips in accordance with their local instructions. However if as was often the case they were purely local trips these would tend to be formed according best (easiest) practice for serving the local yards.

  

Odd traffic flows worked under different arrangements would some times have a manual TAG applied to override the system generated one, to ensure wagons went on the most direct service. One example we had was that perishable traffic for Stratford LIFT terminal location number 52215 in East London generated a 722 tag via Willesden, but we applied a 52L TAG

to ensure that it went on the direct service to Stratford.

 

Hope this makes some sense

Regards

Simon

[Rivercider]

I think the example given by Simon of the marshalling for the Dover to Warrington services possibly illustrates the point made by Martyn.

Normally you might expect all traffic for the North West at Dover to receive a '352' tag and go to Warrington for them to sort out.

In this instance maybe the train arrives at Warrington at a busy time, or the Liverpool traffic needs to make a quick connection (Fords at Halewood?)

so the onus is changed to the forwarding yard at Dover to marshall two separate portions, tag 363 for Liverpool traffic,and tag 352 for Warrington traffic.

 

cheers 

[Steadfast]

That's interesting to see a description of the tags, thanks for that Simon.

I noticed today when looking on TOPS 2000 that all the wagons in the yard had a tag of 82R or 82C I think it was. Anyway it was 82 and a letter. I know tags are a carry over from speed link days and don't necessarily mean anything these days, but do these letters mean anything?

 

jo

[40044]

That's interesting to see a description of the tags, thanks for that Simon.

I noticed today when looking on TOPS 2000 that all the wagons in the yard had a tag of 82R or 82C I think it was. Anyway it was 82 and a letter. I know tags are a carry over from speed link days and don't necessarily mean anything these days, but do these letters mean anything?

jo

Tags are still used to this day in some yards. Old habits die hard!

 

2 numbers and a letter are normally for local tags which are extended back to other areas to ensure trains arrive pre-formed. 822 would be the generic Westbury Yard tag but if Westbury requested that traffic for, say, the cement works didn't arrive 'rough' then incoming trains would have a separate 82x section.

Edited August 27, 2015 by 40044

[Simon Lee]

The letters tended to indicate individual sidings/locations within an area. For example Paddock Wood the dominant traffic was Transfesa location 89332 this got an 89P tag, the other locations usually got 89L, the Rowntrees traffic had a dedicated TAG as well, but if it arrived at Dover things had gone very wrong, such was the importance of the contract it was a special back to PW so we never took notice of the TAG.

 

other examples off the top of my head Manchester area 332 but Trafford Park (under customs bond) 33L, Stratford under bond 52L, Acton area or Acton forwarding 732 Park Royal Guiness 73P.

 

HTH

Simon    

[Rivercider]

That's interesting to see a description of the tags, thanks for that Simon.

I noticed today when looking on TOPS 2000 that all the wagons in the yard had a tag of 82R or 82C I think it was. Anyway it was 82 and a letter. I know tags are a carry over from speed link days and don't necessarily mean anything these days, but do these letters mean anything?

 

jo

As Simon has explained the tag is a shunting instrution for the next move for the wagon. In the days of the vacuum braked network wagons might pass through several yards on their journey

the tag told the shunter which yard it would go to next. The first two numbers equated to the first two numbers of the TOPS location code with the main yard in the area taking the third number 0.

Thus a wagon routed next via Westbury Yard (82100)  would be tagged 820 . If there was more than one yard in the area a letter would be used for the other yard (830 = Exeter Riverside, 83T = Taunton).    

 

When the Speedlink Network was introduced a new code was needed, the third number for air brake was generally  2  (so 820 would be Westbury vacuum braked, 822 would be Westbury Speedlink)

 

As 40044 has already pointed out locations receiving block trains would have their own code, often the third letter would match the location name, hence Tytherington Quarry (81101) would be tagged 81T.

I can not remember the Westbury codes though, but there would definitely be codes allocated to Merehead, Whatley, and probably Frome, Cranmore and Westbury Cement.

 

A block train to a location that did not have its own code would have a third character Y manually added, so a ballast train for say Castle Cary (82301) would be tagged 82Y.  

 

Once a wagon had reached the local main yard the wagon would now gain a local three character code starting with a 9  eg 94K but in my experience the shunters would know that for example 82116 was Warminster MOD. 

 

cheers

[Steadfast]

Thanks for those really informative replies guys, there's so much information in TOPS it's a battle to understand it all. I'm still trying to get my head round some of the operations I use it for less frequently and trying to remember my STANOX codes!

There are so many idiosyncrasies with TOPS and it's not just learning what the resultant error messages mean, but also how to fix them!

 

jo

[bescotbeast]

I'd just like to thank you both Simon and Kevin for sharing your Speedlink/Tags knowledge I've really enjoyed reading your comments and learning more about the marshaling of trains in the Speedlink era.

Simon

[bescotbeast]

Kevin or Simon, do you have a full list of TAGS at all?

[Rivercider]

Kevin or Simon, do you have a full list of TAGS at all?

No, sorry.

 

There were two lists of tags. Main Trunk Tags which can often be worked out as the first two numbers equated to the first two numbers of the location code, (and I can remember or guess many of them)

and local tags, which started with a number 9.

 

The Trunk Tags applied nationally so that any area that had a main yard with direct services to another main yard could have traffic tagged and routed via that yard.

So any yard across the country with a service to Bescot would have traffic routed via Bescot (65700) and would be tagged 650 for vacuum services, but air braked trafic would be tagged 652 in the Speedliink era.  

 

Local tags starting with a number 9 were applied once traffic had arrived at the main yard near the destination and instructed the yard shunters which local trip the wagons went on,

these are not possible to work out unless you have the list, which was different for each TRA, and I suspect shunters often recognised the five number destination code anyway.

 

cheers

[ess1uk]

Just found this very informative thread.