RMweb Gold Scottish Modeller Posted August 30, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 30, 2015 Hi all, As intimated elsewhere! Another possible idea for me modelling a bit of YVT and it's operations. YVT Carbarn and yard - Yakima As I've said before - I'm throwing ideas out there to see what people think. So - say what you think eitehr about modelling the location or operations on it. Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Interesting.... I won't say anymore until others have commented, as I won't be able to assess it from the point of a casual observer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 What kind of operation would go on here? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 What kind of operation would go on here? It depends on the era- the trackplan and useage has changed quite dramatically over the last 40 years or so... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 It looks like an interesting switching layout. Gordon A Bristol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Scottish Modeller Posted August 31, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 31, 2015 It looks like an interesting switching layout. Gordon A Bristol Hi Gordon, That is exactly what the person who suggested it said.... Exactly what you would switch is the interesting question. though. OK - So without stretching the truth - initially at least! You would have cars into and out of the car barn itself. You would have MOW into and out of the car barn yard You could (potentially at least) have an RIP ability - with the extent of services available from the engineering department in the car barn, it would make sense, even though there are these facilities available at the main NP yard. But - if it's 'one of ours' - would they want to pay someone else the repair costs. What about a Team Track or less than truck load operation? This is unlikely as there are extensive facilities for these at the main NP yard that is only a short distance away. Operationally if you want to stay accurate to the real thing - there isn't a lot of operations at all. Ah well - Back to what I've said elsewhere! Would the exhibition visiting public like to watch this? Of course - You could just take the Yakima operation as is and fiddle with the actuality. Let's say that.... After the initial purchase of the 2 trolley cars for the 1076 bi-centennial event (done as funding was available), the operation of the line became so popular that further expansion of services was required. This included the commitment to keep the full 'Interurban' line to Selah operational as a tourist attraction (more state funding). This required further trolley cars to be obtained and, as trolley operations had ceased at the source of the 2 centennial trolley purchases, there were no more of this type of trolley available. However, within the US itself a number of operational trollies were available. This was due to older cars being retired as and when finances became available. With the operation of the Yakima lines being primarily a tourist operation - this fitted in with what the YVT expectations and historical aspects that the YVT requiring. This leaves plenty of scope to use a wide variety of ex other city stock - PCC trolley anyone? Of course, it may well have been that more finance both from the state and cities was available and this allowed YVT to restore the other historic cars it already possessed. This required YVT to enlarge both it's maintenance and storage facilities in the car barn yard. As a result, it enabled YVT to keep the land for it's previous use and prevent the reduction of usable space that has happened in reality. There is another option - but that takes us into the realms of fantasy! City of Yakima takes over trolley operations and expands the system as a modern tramway operation. Pure fiction of course! Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 I doubt many people who would see the layout would know that your history is largely fabricated. I wouldn't, for one thing. As I said on your other thread, build what you'll enjoy building and operating. You can't please everyone so make sure that you please yourself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 I doubt many people who would see the layout would know that your history is largely fabricated. I wouldn't, for one thing. As I said on your other thread, build what you'll enjoy building and operating. You can't please everyone so make sure that you please yourself. I regularly had people introduce themselves by saying they recognized the prototype or had even ridden on the Trolleys or photographed the YVT hauling freight, but then again there is a general understanding that since the majority of exhibition layouts are fictional, this bizarre prototype must be too as they couldn't possibly have ever had electric railroads in the US (or Japan, or Switzerland- or anywhere else someone has decided it is). I did once believe that a layout should exactly follow a prototype, and the successful look of one was just a case of finding the exact one to model. However such information is often hard to come by, and it is sometimes easier to cobble together scenes from the necessary view breaks and complimentary structures using a certain level of artistry and design to make an exhibition punters friendly layout, instead of slavishly flowing a prototype and inheriting its faults or getting it wrong through a lack of information. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Scottish Modeller Posted September 1, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 1, 2015 Hi all, I've been working off real maps and online maps to work out the size that a model of the car barn yard would be - IF done to the full scale. After working it all out - the size of it came as a bit of a surprise - to say the least! Using the map, then scaling images of the site on top of the map gives an area that would measure just short of 10ft long and a bit over 5ft wide. That is based on modelling the whole site within the boundaries and including the Powerhouse. Now - that is a problem as it would be more than I can fit in the car! So - it looks like modelling the car barn at full size is a no go. That leaves the option of reducing the site and building sizes proportionally to make it fit the max board area I can fit in the car. More to follow - once I ponder a while on this! Thanks ps - It's amazing that hardly a day goes by without finding (or being pointed to) more photos of YVT in one form or another. So - I'll leave the searches running and see what else turns up. Star find today was a previously unseen photo of the Line Car A, not even on a train, tram, trolley or transport related site! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 The 4th board for my first layout would have featured a representation of the Carbarn, but with it rotated anticlockwise. It was a tight squeeze but fitted on the 54" x 18" board, roughly shown in pink (edit: what's left of the Wye onto yth St would have been on the next board, the total length of the pink area must have been 6'). It was just a case of including what I needed to give a representation of and similar photo opportunities as the prototype. For the sake of completeness, this is the plan. Pointwork geometry is Peco Setrack with a code 100 curved at the bottom: The problem I find is when I try to Google modelling the YVT, I only ever find my own stuff (but did see some nice photos of 298 on an o gauge forum recently). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Scottish Modeller Posted September 2, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 2, 2015 The 4th board for my first layout would have featured a representation of the Carbarn, but with it rotated anticlockwise. It was a tight squeeze but fitted on the 54" x 18" board, roughly shown in pink (edit: what's left of the Wye onto yth St would have been on the next board, the total length of the pink area must have been 6'). It was just a case of including what I needed to give a representation of and similar photo opportunities as the prototype. For the sake of completeness, this is the plan. Pointwork geometry is Peco Setrack with a code 100 curved at the bottom: post-6819-0-19582500-1371071167.jpg The problem I find is when I try to Google modelling the YVT, I only ever find my own stuff (but did see some nice photos of 298 on an o gauge forum recently). Hi Andy, Yes - I still have your trackplan with the carbarn section on file. I've seen the same photos of 298 on the O gauge forum as well. Latest photo to drop into view is this one Just a shame I couldn't find a larger version. One of the downsides these days of using Google is that they have implemented the Court Of European Justice 'Right to be Forgotten ' legislation. In short this means that anyone who has photos available on line which include their name can apply to have the photos removed/blocked to a Google search. So - in the past entering the photographers name was a good way to find photos - now it doesn't work as well. Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Notice anything strange about that photo...? Not that A was parked in its usual area near the Carbarn, but there is what appears to be a Reefer on the south end spur. What it is doing there is anybody's guess... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Scottish Modeller Posted September 3, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 3, 2015 Hi all, A bit more precise drawing and measurements! Photo size should be 10.77cm by 25.96cm (I know - I could have made it easier...) Yakima – Car Barn Known dimensions Length - 150ft – Map – 7.5cm Width – Barn – 50ft – Map – 2.5cm Width – Lean to Workshops – 25ft – Map – 1.25cm Power House Length – 50ft – Map – 2.5cm Width – 65ft – Map – 3.25cm Scaling from the known dimensions gives the scale of this picture to be 20ft to the cm. (if it comes out at the right size!) This would make the site to be 215ft by 519ft (near enough) So - convert that to 3.5mm/ft scale Gives a layout size 0.75m by 1.86m - that may be more achievable than I initially thought - with a little trim to length and width. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Did the YVT also haul general freight over their lines or are the box/flat/tanker cars in the picture for YVT maintenance purposes only? It could be presented in a T shape format with the top of the T being West Pine Street, with a small fiddle yard at each end of W. Pine St. Gordon A Bristol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Scottish Modeller Posted September 3, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 3, 2015 Did the YVT also haul general freight over their lines or are the box/flat/tanker cars in the picture for YVT maintenance purposes only? It could be presented in a T shape format with the top of the T being West Pine Street, with a small fiddle yard at each end of W. Pine St. Gordon A Bristol Hi Gordon, YVT carried freight - mainly fruit products from the packing houses to the NP/UP yard. The current freight stock in the yard is either as storage or MOW use. You have described more or less how I thought about operating this layout - if it is the one I decide to build. I would use Shortliner's 'Hockey Stick for both ends of the T - to represent the line to the NP/UP yard at the bottom of the photo as it is and to represent the traffic to and from the packing houses. From what I can find out - the yard was only for YVT use - whatever traffic that either came from or was going to the NP/UP yard didn't go into it. There are several photos that show one of other of the freight motors sat out on W Pine St with cars - possibly waiting for crew taking PNB's? Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 The current trackwork arrangement dates from an era that I doubt you'll find a lot of information for or even people willing to talk about. I need to check my facts before posting further, but basically additional stock that might have been seen there 15-20 years ago included a metal cupola caboose in NP colours, a small ~25ton diesel switcher (the only photo I've seen was of it with a couole of gondolas loaded with reclaimed overhead equipment for a Trolley line in Texas, and a pair of Baldwin RS4TC diesels, which are now in Snoqualmie. It's got the makings of a shortline and if operated separately from the Washington Central / Nick Temple Empire, might have seen stock stored at the Carbarn. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof Klyzlr Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Dear Phil, Bonus points are on offer if you follow the lead of Jim Lincoln(regular Model Rail Radio and MRH contributor) and literally print out the overhead shot to scale,glue it to the benchwork,and handlay the track directly over the top...(IE use the image as an in-situ template) http://www.hansmanns.org/ld-op-nj/nj_2013.htm (scroll down 1/2 way, and make sure to read the caption under the N-scale layout picture) Happy Modelling,Aim to Improve,Prof Klyzlr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 More photos from ~25 years ago. I've not seen many other photos of the Wide Cupola caboose, but does go to show what can be included if you push the boundaries a bit. http://hickscarworks.blogspot.co.uk/2009/03/moving-205.html?m=1 I'll have a look later for the the thread about modelling a preserved line....or why modellers don't... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Scottish Modeller Posted September 4, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 4, 2015 Dear Phil, Bonus points are on offer if you follow the lead of Jim Lincoln (regular Model Rail Radio and MRH contributor) and literally print out the overhead shot to scale, glue it to the benchwork, and handlay the track directly over the top... (IE use the image as an in-situ template) http://www.hansmanns.org/ld-op-nj/nj_2013.htm (scroll down 1/2 way, and make sure to read the caption under the N-scale layout picture) Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr Hi Prof, I already thought about doing this.... Just I don't have any software that will support a size 0.75m by 1.86m. So - I am trying to split it into 2 and see if that works with the various software that I do have. More on this after I've played around a bit more. Thanks ps - somewhere buried in the boxes I have Bannermaker Pro which does - but will it run in Windows of any variety? Will have to see. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 By way of a comparison, I have crudely drawn in the trackwork arrangements for current (white) and UP closure 1985 (yellow). I might try again later with a larger photo of the whole site, there were a few rationalisations over time, from photos I think there was a spur where the pair are to the right of the Powerhouse, and another alongside the lean-to wall although I'm not sure if this is where the current track is or if anything was allowed to use it because of the tight curve onto Pine St. (The last time I was there, I flagged Line Car A across the curve on South 3rd Avenue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 And a couple more oddities near the Carbarn: YILX Caboose: GM Goldfish Bowl, Yakima City Lines no.47, April 1975: I'm not sure when it ended, but after Trolleys gave way to Rubber tyres in 1947, the Carbarn area was used as their Depot. The Yellow Pickup might be a 1950's Chevrolet, numbered A-5. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 Hi Prof, I already thought about doing this.... Just I don't have any software that will support a size 0.75m by 1.86m. So - I am trying to split it into 2 and see if that works with the various software that I do have. More on this after I've played around a bit more. Thanks ps - somewhere buried in the boxes I have Bannermaker Pro which does - but will it run in Windows of any variety? Will have to see. Phil - XTrkCad will print out full size (1:1) trackplans over multiple sheets - You can download it free from the XTrkCad group files on Yahoo - You can make, (or ask nicely) extra types of turnouts if you need them and they aren't already included in the original parameter files. There was also a pro called epostery which will do the same thing to pictures - somewhere I have a copy. both run on on windows Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Scottish Modeller Posted September 5, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 5, 2015 Hi all, A bit more progress.... I've been concentrating on the system map - need to get it out of my system as not having a full one was bugging me. Anyway - I've now done the Yakima routes to the west and southwest of the town - still to do the other lines. To do it justice the file became a bit big - too big for up here. If you are interested and ask - I will send it to you. Eventually I hope to make it an interactive map with links to the various photo locations - but that might take a while! The Selah line is easy, the other ones are not as the map quality for the period isn't great and the aerial shots are even worse. Some more photos appeared today though. Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Scottish Modeller Posted September 5, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 5, 2015 Phil - XTrkCad will print out full size (1:1) trackplans over multiple sheets - You can download it free from the XTrkCad group files on Yahoo - You can make, (or ask nicely) extra types of turnouts if you need them and they aren't already included in the original parameter files. There was also a pro called epostery which will do the same thing to pictures - somewhere I have a copy. both run on on windows Hello Jack, Yes - I thought of that as well but.... I can't get XtrkCad to work with Windows 10 - Yet! I've not given up though and may well resort to running it in a virtual XP desktop. Will let you know how I get on. Thanks edit It seems that XtrkCad cannot find any parameter files. This is strange as they are in the same directory as they were before I got Windows 10. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof Klyzlr Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 Dear Phil, Assuming XTrkCAD 4.0.3a(Tested WinXP and Win7 SP1) Step 1 - File > Parameter Files Step 2 - Click "Browse" Step 3 - locate the ParameterFileName.xtp file(s) you need Step 4 - select the Parameter File you need Step 5 - Click "Open" Repeat Steps 2-5 until you have all of the required Parameter Files loaded Step 6 - Tick the parameter files you need for this mission(EG just because you have the Parameter Files for every concievable trackage-system under the sun loaded, does not mean you have to have them all displayed) Step 7 - Click "OK" XTrkCAD should now have a usable set of parameter files loaded,known where they are,and not complain about them on following app launches... :-) Happy Modelling,Aim to Improve,Prof Klyzlr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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