Triang TT Technical advice

[Golden Fleece 30]

You might not need the internal frame for freewheeling coaches. I tried a simple approach of knocking out the old wheels and axles and replacing them with steam era 12mm gauge sets and the appropriate nylon bearings. Just had to drill out the axleboxes about 1/8 inch and mill away some of the sideframe to allow the wheelsets to drop in. All that was left was push the bearings in from outside till you get a nice fit with minimal end float and a drop of super goo from the outside holds it all together.

 

Neat and easy fit

 

I have already done a few a different way as the You Tube videos show using single Jackson wheels bought and placing them on a Bachmann axle.  I did have to drill the axle boxes out slightly for the different sized axle.  The axle was pushed through one side, fibre washers placed to stop shorting, one wheel, then the other and some more washers.  It saved having to remove any material from the bogie or wagon frames.  I have made the internal frame method for my Atlas bogies and tenders which work well so thought these would work similar on the coaches. Hopefully this method only requires one hole drilled and tapped in the base and that is it.

 

 

Most of my coaches have had their solebars painted black and others will follow as and when time permits.  The BR repainted and lined Tri-ang Mk1's and Suburbans were actually done in the 1970's and only varnished last year when resurrected.

 

That Blue and Grey coach has come up very well and makes you wonder why someone would paint it in Brown and Cream when that livery was available already at the time.

 

Garry

[TT3]

Wagon wheels look very nice indeed. The single wheel method on Bachmann axle is very clever and saves the real problem of removing metal from the triang castings, the coach bogies need alot of metal removed. However for wagons it is a bit easier and the wheels pretty much drop in.

 

My guess withe the blue grey is it was a period mod, who knows what excess new stock was selling for at the end of production, probably at giveaway prices.

[Golden Fleece 30]

As I am in the process of doing some Southern stock I wanted a suitable green. Over the years the SR (BR period) had a few different shades on each type of vehicle. I did read it was mixed on site as stock green therefore there were some variations. Southern Malachite is too light for me, late SR coach green (Olive) too dark as is DMU/EMU green (even darker than steam loco green). I wanted what was early EMU lighter green. With non available I therefore decided to try and "mix" while actually spraying. The result below is from 4 or 5 passes of Malachite green and immediately 2 or 3 passes of late EMU dark green. This looked too dark for what I wanted and immediately gave another couple of passes of Malachite again while still wet. I was worried that a lot of paint had been sprayed on at once but thankfully everything seems okay. The sides have dried to an acceptable shade for me and below you can see on the top of the paper is Malachite (one press only it is lighter still after a few passes), the coach sides now dried, and at the bottom the very dark EMU green. All I can hope is my EMU will turn out in a similar fashion when it comes to it.

 

Garry

[Golden Fleece 30]

Here is a wagon bogie that was done.  The wheels (approx 900) are thankfully all the same size as Tri-ang in diameter and width so as you say there was no material to be removed. With the new idea the wheels will be pushed to the 10.5 back to back and then the axles cut flush with the outside so again there will be no casting to file off.  Here are the etches for the tenders and bogies which are the exact same method for the wheels to drop into the slots and a tab folded over to keep them in situ.

 

Garry

[rodshaw]

There's lots of technical advice in these 3mm Society magazines, free to a good home:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/123024-mixed-traffic-3mm-society-magazine/

[TT3]

What would be good for those EMUs would be some of those cast EMU ends 3SMR used to sell.

[Golden Fleece 30]

What would be good for those EMUs would be some of those cast EMU ends 3SMR used to sell.

 

Too true, but, unfortunately I have only seen one pair come up (since I resurrected my TT last September) and was outbid by quite a considerable amount.  That is what gave me the idea in the first place when I saw those although I think they were the slight angled fronts like the Tri-ang 00 version.  I would have still loved to have won them though.

 

Garry

[TT3]

Too true, but, unfortunately I have only seen one pair come up (since I resurrected my TT last September) and was outbid by quite a considerable amount.  That is what gave me the idea in the first place when I saw those although I think they were the slight angled fronts like the Tri-ang 00 version.  I would have still loved to have won them though.

 

Garry

That is a pain in the rear, when they were for sale at 3SMR I always meant to buy a few pairs for later projects but never got around to it as they were pretty inexpensive then.

[Golden Fleece 30]

Now we have the powered centre car for the EMU. This is a standard Suburban which has had one end cut out for the DMU motor bogie. A nickel strip has been bent up and screwed to the coach, this has the motor mounting/holding slot cut into it. The roof needed one interior end cutting to fit around the strip. The end screw will later be countersunk into the body. I could actually be tempted to make it a 4 car EMU so may as well spray a fourth coach just in case.

 

Garry

[Golden Fleece 30]

For those of you who are interested in repainting your TT I received this yesterday from Modelmaster. Good news as I do like their 00 nameplates which at the moment I have used on my TT A4 and Deltic along with their 00 Diesel numbers.

 

Modelmaster

As well as replacing the ranges above with new items, we're making 3mm Scale and 7mm Scale Nameplates & Decals, the first of which will be locomotive lining (7mm Scale) and 3mm & 7mm Etched Nameplates, all of which will appear very soon.

 

Garry

[Golden Fleece 30]

The 3 cars of the EMU are primed and the roofs are finished. As I have no grey primer in stock a white plastic primer has been used. Only a thin coat applied which shows the maroon through making it look pink but will suffice for when I find a suitable green. Hopefully I will get chance on Friday to look at some colours and hopefully find one to my liking. The mounting bracket shows the shape I decided to use, the single front fold rests on the end lip in the coach floor and the reverse fold is long enough to clear the large centre hole to allow screws to hold it in place, nuts will be soldered in situ before assembly.

 

Garry

[Golden Fleece 30]

My best bargain yet I think. A brand new (was un-opened) BEC Compound loco and tender kit with Romford wheels, gears and motor all for £23 plus £3 postage.  To be honest this did not come up in any of my searches and I caught sight of it looking through non interesting things, that is most likely why there was only one other bidder and me.  I will probably not use the chassis and get a nickel one etched to suit, especially as I already have an assembled body to strip and make a chassis for.

 

Garry

[NCB]

Certainly looks a bargain.

[Il Grifone]

She should make up nicely. The bogie wheels could do with replacement however - the bosses are enormous. (I have some of these but under rolling stock where the bosses are hidden.)

[Golden Fleece 30]

I will most likely use the Jackson ones like on my A4 David. I have never had success with insulaxles, wheels not on square, axles bent or hole to big lol. If I can get suitable transfers that I like it will hopefully be in lined black.

 

Garry

[Il Grifone]

Insulaxles are a prehistoric Imperial diameter (Possibly 15 s.w.g. - I'll have to dig out the instructions) and require an accurate bore in the wheel a tiny fraction less than this (again I'll need to reference the instructions). Too small a diameter will strip off the anodised insulating layer (guess how I know!). Being aluminium, they are easy to bend, but I've found them quite satisfactory in use. The metal is easy to pin-point, which is an advantage. Steel is rather reluctant and I tend to overdo it and end up with a short axle. In itself, this is not a problem but it does mean that a non-standard axleguard assembly results, making the wheelset difficult to replace afterwards.

 

David

[Golden Fleece 30]

Insulaxles are a prehistoric Imperial diameter (Possibly 15 s.w.g. - I'll have to dig out the instructions) and require an accurate bore in the wheel a tiny fraction less than this (again I'll need to reference the instructions).

 

My mistake David, just opened the packet and the bogie axles are plain steel with one wheel of each pair having a nylon bush.  I will see how the look and can swap later if necessary.

 

Garry

[Golden Fleece 30]

The internal coach bogie frames and the gear box etches came today. So far I have just had time to fold up a gearbox and try it out. The only issue seemed to be as I wanted it the width of the cog wheel the sloping sides stopped the worm going down the shaft properly. A few seconds with a file cured it and it seems to run very well, the centres set at Romfords recommendation of 3/8". All I need now is a chassis to try it out on. With the others, I can file the recess before folding the sides. I have also had etched a washer to solder on the outside of the axle holes to give more bearing surface, and, a plate that can be fitted between the gearbox and motor then folded over the top and bottom of the motor if necessary.

 

Garry

[Golden Fleece 30]

Has any one any experience of the small open framed Mashima motors? I have some and they all run hot/very warm even not mounted to a gearbox. I have read someone said they are designed to run hot which I find strange.

 

Garry

Edited May 29, 2017 by Golden Fleece 30

[Il Grifone]

It sounds dodgy to me.  Running hot is not good engineering practice.

 

Taking inspiration from the Midland Railway?  

 

David

[Golden Fleece 30]

I thought that too David but it is what was written in the 3mm society handbook which someone gave me a copy of. I wonderd if the very small magents might need replacing if I cannot remag them, failing that adding small neos to them.

 

Garry

[NCB]

Has any one any experience of the small open framed Mashima motors? I have some and they all run hot/very warm even not mounted to a gearbox. I have read someone said they are designed to run hot which I find strange.

 

Garry

 

I use most of the small Mashima motors, the 9/16 open frame if I can't get a flat can in, otherwise the 10/20, 12/20 and 12/24 flat cans. Some people swear by the 9/16. Personally I prefer the flat cans; I think they run cooler, slower and have better torque. The 10/15 flat can is to be avoided; heats up very easily.

 

However, my locos don't run in a continuous circuit; up and down a couple of yards is the most they get at the moment, although that should be 5 yards soon, so so long as they don't heat up too much I'm happy. The 9/16 is usable in that respect, but it does get warm. I've just run one straight off a controller with nothing attached, and it's fine free running, but if you slow it down a bit by putting a finger against the shaft it rapidly heats up. I've an idea it may not be the right motor if you're running a train around your circuit. OK for shunting. I've a 9/20 which I've never seriously tried but I think it might be better.

 

Nigel

 

Edit: I've heard the "designed to run hot" bit as well. Don't know that I believe it. Being open frame they will dissipate heat fairly easily, but that's a different matter. I've also heard that "flat cans are worse for heat because they don't let the heat out". Don't believe that either. I don't run locos fast, which may help, but the flat cans I've used have been fine. I have a couple of GWR pannier tanks, one from the GEM kit, one from a Brynkits kit but which uses some GEM castings; both use a modified Brynkits chassis. Both use a Mashima 12/24 motor driving a High Level 1:54 gearbox. Best runners I've got; they will crawl along, pull a house down, and never show the slightest sign of stress.

Edited May 30, 2017 by NCB

[Golden Fleece 30]

Hi Nigel,

 

My motors are open frame 9.25 wide and 16 long and 20 long, 2 of each.  The magnets seem quite strong.

 

I know I will mostly be using them on an end to end layout when it is finished, approx 25' long but odd times I will have a continuous loop working.  I can say most locos only do 4 or 5 circuits but at the speed these heat up that would be less than once around.  The gears are standard Romford 30:1 and 60:1

 

I guess the test will be when a chassis is complete and running?

 

Garry

[Il Grifone]

Insulaxles are a prehistoric Imperial diameter (Possibly 15 s.w.g. - I'll have to dig out the instructions) and require an accurate bore in the wheel a tiny fraction less than this (again I'll need to reference the instructions). Too small a diameter will strip off the anodised insulating layer (guess how I know!). Being aluminium, they are easy to bend, but I've found them quite satisfactory in use. The metal is easy to pin-point, which is an advantage. Steel is rather reluctant and I tend to overdo it and end up with a short axle. In itself, this is not a problem but it does mean that a non-standard axleguard assembly results, making the wheelset difficult to replace afterwards.

 

David

 

According to the instructions the wheel should be bored no.50 - 70 thou. or 1.78 mm., so presumably Insulaxles are a tad more than this, certainly way below today's standard 2mm. 15 s.w.g. is 72 thou., so could well be the axle diameter. In days of yore, it used to be the standard axle diameter, apparently being the size used for bicycle spokes and thus easy to obtain.

[NCB]

Hi Nigel,

 

My motors are open frame 9.25 wide and 16 long and 20 long, 2 of each.  The magnets seem quite strong.

 

I know I will mostly be using them on an end to end layout when it is finished, approx 25' long but odd times I will have a continuous loop working.  I can say most locos only do 4 or 5 circuits but at the speed these heat up that would be less than once around.  The gears are standard Romford 30:1 and 60:1

 

I guess the test will be when a chassis is complete and running?

 

Garry

 

One thing. I did find using High Level gearboxes improved things a lot. Maybe it's the nylon intermediate gears. But it seems they are pretty free running. I found Romford gears varied a bit. I used Romford gearboxes and wondered if the meshing was a bit too close. The late Jim Russell did a lot of testing of gears, from Hornby Dublo locomotives onwards, and reckoned the best running was always with the gears as lightly meshed as you could get away with; before that there was an assumption that you needed tight meshes. Some people used to use grinding paste to run in a gearbox before using it properly; tried it once but didn't notice any improvement, and reckoned that if you needed to use that method then the gearbox was probably too tightly meshed in the first place.