Playing with Hornby Dublo 3 rail again

[Golden Fleece 30]

As a bit of variety,i would like to repaint one in apple green lined LNER livery.The only lining set is from Dennis williams but i can`t work out whether they are waterslide or varnish fix.He has kindly sent me a set of instructions but i`m still unsure.

 

Ray.

Ray,

 

They are varnish/meths fix, but, Dennis and others have used something like Pritt stick coating the transfer as you would with varnish then applying it. Later washing of the carrier. I have never used this method preferring to use meths. Varnish is best but you have to leave overnight to completely dry which is why I use meths. When he runs out he is looking at waterslide replacements as no one will make the better varnish/meths ones anymore.

 

Garry

[sagaguy]

Thanks Garry,if i go ahead with this project,i`ll have to email Dennis to find out what they are,he doesn`t specify what they are on his website.I personally prefer waterslide & i prefer Fox as they are finer.If the worst comes to the worst,i have a sheet of white/black/white LNER lines & curves from which i can construct the lining.Just got to find another reasonably priced tank loco.

 

                                 Ray.

[Golden Fleece 30]

Thanks Garry,if i go ahead with this project,i`ll have to email Dennis to find out what they are,he doesn`t specify what they are on his website.I personally prefer waterslide & i prefer Fox as they are finer.If the worst comes to the worst,i have a sheet of white/black/white LNER lines & curves from which i can construct the lining.Just got to find another reasonably priced tank loco.

 

Ray.

Up to a couple of years ago all his transfers were still varnish/meths. He did have Dublo and Wrenn styles of which Wrenn were a little finer but there was an issue with the A4 ones breaking up so he was looking at taking those of his list. If they were waterslide I doubt there would be much in the way of instructions. The advantage of non waterslide is the whole transfer is to shape and there is no bending of the lines when you apply them. The Fox ones are finer and I use them for TT. I personally was not interested in the 2-6-4 in apple green SR etc as it was a BR loco only but a few liked the variations which I guess meant more sales for Wrenn.

 

I did do a couple in mid grey with white-black-white lining for a well known collecter as he had wagons made to match. All these had his own logo transfers made for loco and wagons as if owned by a cement works etc.

 

Garry

[sagaguy]

Following my theme on green tank locos,this is a detailed & modified tank that i repainted in the early 1980s.The loco came from a long defunct model shop,Meks Models in Holloway,N London,he dealt in a lot of s/h Dublo locos,plentiful in those days & cost me,I think,£2.50.he had lots of these locos & had a short test track where you could sort through them & find one that didn`t look like a catherine wheel in the cab.This was one of my early attempts at using my new airbrush which may account for me trying to explain why a patch of wallpaper on my bedroom wall was a light shade of Apple green to my mother.

 

 

                            

 

 

                        Ray

 

[Wolseley]

I just bought myself a Deltic, a genuine 3 rail St Paddy in pretty good condition - relatively cheap for a St Paddy at $123.50.  I didn't really need one though, as I already have a 3 railed Crepello.....

Edited September 24, 2018 by Wolseley

[sagaguy]

I just bought myself a Deltic, a genuine 3 rail St Paddy in pretty good condition - relatively cheap for a St Paddy at $123.50.  I didn't really need one though, as I already have a 3 railed Crepello.....

I think that`s about £69 in sterling,if correct that was a bargain,a much sought after loco in the UK.

 

                       Ray.

[Il Grifone]

Hi David,

 

The Dublo model that is available has the three main parts cast from moulds made from the Kitmaster model. Unfortuantely they used the 2-6-4 wheels which looked wrong, more so by using the 2-6-4 valve gear as well. It makes the unit look like a couple of Crabs or some short foreign Garratt with a long boiler.

 

The photos show the difference between the Heljan and Dublo ones. In my opinion the Heljan far outweighs the Dublo one but its poor quality build let it down.

 

Looking at the two, the Dublo wheels may have been okay if they had spaced them correctly further apart and had new coupling rods made, and possibly used the smaller 8F cylinder assemblies.

 

I still have an old Kitmaster one that I fitted a couple of Tri-ang 0-6-0 chassis's too and one day when I go back to 00 I may look at replacing with R1 chassis's

 

Garry

 

Hi Garry,

 

The Tri-ang chassis has the right wheelbase (approximately), but their valvegear leaves something to be desired. Fitting Dublo wheels would be an improvement and possibly Duchess valvegear? I have to steer clear of yet another project, but maybe if a kit turns up?

 

David

[Golden Fleece 30]

Hi Garry,

 

The Tri-ang chassis has the right wheelbase (approximately), but their valvegear leaves something to be desired. Fitting Dublo wheels would be an improvement and possibly Duchess valvegear? I have to steer clear of yet another project, but maybe if a kit turns up?

 

David

That's right David,

 

The Duchess, not City, valve gear would be the ideal solution.  The Duchess valve gear was about the best commercially produced available from any manufacturer even now.  I say that because todays assemblies are to flimsy. The only issue with the Duchess ones was the drop link off the crosshead  missing but it still looked the part and not out of scale, even the cylinders looked better than the City ones.

 

Garry

[Golden Fleece 30]

 

Following my theme on green tank locos,this is a detailed & modified tank that i repainted in the early 1980s.The loco came from a long defunct model shop,Meks Models in Holloway,N London,he dealt in a lot of s/h Dublo locos,plentiful in those days & cost me,I think,£2.50.he had lots of these locos & had a short test track where you could sort through them & find one that didn`t look like a catherine wheel in the cab.This was one of my early attempts at using my new airbrush which may account for me trying to explain why a patch of wallpaper on my bedroom wall was a light shade of Apple green to my mother.

 

 

                             20180923_225921.jpg

 

 

                        Ray

 

Ray,

 

How is it you were painting in the bedroom at your mothers house when you were nearly 40, I was in my 30's then? Was that the best place to go to paint to save your own house :-) 

 

Garry

[Il Grifone]

Hi Garry,

 

They probably thought the link would have been too delicate. As it is, the rest of the gear is prone to falling apart, but then it has given good service.

 

David

[Golden Fleece 30]

Hi Garry,

 

They probably thought the link would have been too delicate. As it is, the rest of the gear is prone to falling apart, but then it has given good service.

 

David

Hi David,

 

I cannot remember any of mine coming apart, my only problem was the centre crankpins working loose, especially the early thin ones.  Maybe mine never got as much running due to the amount of other locos like the A4's lol.  Having said that I expect the next time I get one out it will be in bits.

 

Garry

[Wolseley]

I think that`s about £69 in sterling,if correct that was a bargain,a much sought after loco in the UK.

 

                       Ray.

 

 

Sounds like the right amount for a conversion from $A to Sterling.  And because it's local, the postage cost is fairly minimal and I should have it in a few days.

[sagaguy]

Ray,

 

How is it you were painting in the bedroom at your mothers house when you were nearly 40, I was in my 30's then? Was that the best place to go to paint to save your own house :-) 

 

Garry

 No,moved to Northampton for my job & they promptly sent me back to London to work during the week for a while so stayed at my parents house.Went back to Northampton at the weekend.

 

                     Ray.

[sagaguy]

I like to populate my platfoms but having to remove them to dust & vac was a pain.On a forum sometime ago,i can`t remember which one,a poster came up with this brilliant solution.I cut a strip of 1/32" ply,painted it Sahara beige to match the platforms & superglued some figures to it.You can cut it to whatever length or width you want.A lot of these are Dapol figures painted quite a few years ago

 

 

                      

 

 

                       Ray..

 

[MikeCW]

That's right David,

 

The Duchess, not City, valve gear would be the ideal solution.  The Duchess valve gear was about the best commercially produced available from any manufacturer even now.  I say that because todays assemblies are to flimsy. The only issue with the Duchess ones was the drop link off the crosshead  missing but it still looked the part and not out of scale, even the cylinders looked better than the City ones.

 

Garry

Garry's post sent me off to the shed/workshop to examine an Atholl and (Wrenn) City valve gear more closely.  I knew of course that the Duchess valve gear was "deficient" in that the combination lever was attached directly to the crosshead instead of via drop and union links, as Garry noted.  I assumed that, because the City valve gear had corrected this, it was better - but I hadn't looked at it closely. On a close inspection it seems to me that the Duchess gear is more refined overall, (despite the fluted con-rod on the City) and the lifting arm to the expansion link is represented better than on the City - which has no lifting arm at all!  I was sufficiently intrigued to take a couple of photos, reproduced herewith, for those who may be less familiar with Dublo's pacific valve gear

The Atholl chassis is an early one with a horseshoe magnet, which shows how advanced Dublo were for their time. None of those beautifully detailed (but mechanically dodgy) Mainline and Airfix locomotives which started appearing in the 1980s had the radius rod moving the valve piston like Meccano managed a generation earlier.  They were all stuck in mid-gear.

 

Edit. After putting up these two photos, Il Grifone, in the following post, pointed out that the return crank on the Atholl valve gear appeared to have shifted on the crankpin, and was sitting behind the axle centre line in the first photo, instead of the correct position as it was installed at Binns Road.  With the aid of "blacksmith" engineering I adjusted the return crank to approximately its correct position, (the green arrow in the photo below) It looks better and, in particular, the expansion link (orange arrow) is now oriented correctly. And it still runs satisfactorily.

 

As the crank was firmly secured in the incorrect position, and the horseshoe motor had at some stage been fitted very professionally with a neo magnet, my guess is that the wheels may have been off the chassis and reinstalled with the return crank in the "trailing" rather than the correct "leading" position. 

 

I wonder how Jenny Emily is getting on with her father's Hornby Dublo trains.  She started this thread almost exactly 3 years ago and it's been enthusiastically carried on by us old blokes!

 

Mike

Edited September 26, 2018 by MikeCW

[Il Grifone]

The return crank has shifted on the horseshoe chassis. Dublo (unlike Tri-ang!) always got theirs right! It's true there's not a lot to keep it in position though. it's a bit too long on the City. (With the crank in the fully down position, the return crank should be positioned horizontally through the wheel centre.

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=walschaerts+valve+gear&client=firefox-b-ab&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiz6qKs29XdAhVSsKQKHfrwBeEQ_AUIDigB&biw=1616&bih=826

 

I could never understand why they cranked the connecting rods so viciously. It can be smoothed out and still miss the leading crank pin. However it's still better than the thick washer favoured by other makes!

[MikeCW]

The return crank has shifted on the horseshoe chassis. Dublo (unlike Tri-ang!) always got theirs right! It's true there's not a lot to keep it in position though.

 

You're right David. Thanks for pointing it out as I hadn't noticed it.  It should be to the right of the driving wheel centre as on the City.  I'll see if I can correct it (and check the other side at the same time).

 

Mike

 

Edit.  I adjusted the return crank (as much as I could) to approximately its correct position, and have included a photo of the revised layout in the post above.  Thanks again.

 

Mike

Edited September 26, 2018 by MikeCW

[NCB]

Can remember noticing on my Atholl, a long long time ago (really must get her out for another go), that the valve gear was much finer than the later Dublo gear.

[MikeCW]

The return crank has shifted on the horseshoe chassis. Dublo (unlike Tri-ang!) always got theirs right! It's true there's not a lot to keep it in position though. it's a bit too long on the City. (With the crank in the fully down position, the return crank should be positioned horizontally through the wheel centre.

On the basis of David's well spotted problem with the Atholl valve gear I spent an hour putting the return crank on the right-hand side of the chassis back to something closer to its proper position.  The result is included in a photo which I have added, with a comment, to the original post (715) above.

 

This also sent me on a quest among my books and on the net for a good photo of the prototypes' valve gear to compare to the Dublo version.  Typically, I couldn't find a decent side-on view of the right side of a Duchess/Coronation Pacific, but found a couple of left side views of the centre driving wheel and return crank, reproduced below, together with a photo of the left side of the horseshoe magnet Atholl.

 

Notwithstanding the small wheels and other compromises, to my mind these pictures reinforce David's view - Meccano took the trouble to get it right.

 

Mike

Edited September 26, 2018 by MikeCW

[sagaguy]

One for Garry.Is Doncaster green the same as Apple green,i`m going to repaint a 2-6-4 tank loco into the Wrenn LNER version.I`ve got a tin of Humbrol acrylic Apple green but it`s a bit thin,needs spraying through my airbrush.I prefer Railmatch paints if i can`t get a matching car aerosol,the only Railmatch aerosols are Darlington geen.I know there is a difference but how much?.

 

                       Ray.

[Golden Fleece 30]

One for Garry.Is Doncaster green the same as Apple green,i`m going to repaint a 2-6-4 tank loco into the Wrenn LNER version.I`ve got a tin of Humbrol acrylic Apple green but it`s a bit thin,needs spraying through my airbrush.I prefer Railmatch paints if i can`t get a matching car aerosol,the only Railmatch aerosols are Darlington geen.I know there is a difference but how much?.

 

                       Ray.

Hi Ray,

 

Apple green was the name given whether it was Doncaster or Darlington.  I don't have a book to hand to say which is which unfortunately the internet gives two opposite answers, one saying Doncaster was lighter, the other that Doncaster was Darker.  The Doncaster shade is the true LNER one and officials turned a blind eye to Darlington using a different shade. Looking at other models and real ones there is quite a difference between the two as here.

 

Garry

[sagaguy]

Thanks Garry,it seems railmatch for me,i`m waiting for the loco at the moment.

 

                     Ray.

[andy2308]

All this talk of steam locos, here's something a tad different that I'm working on...

 

4TC unit which will eventually be hauled by a Hornby Dublo 4REP - new cab front based on the original SR EMU version, tweaked and 3D printed, new coach graphics printed (old SD coach recycled) still much work to do.

 

[MikeCW]

All this talk of steam locos, here's something a tad different that I'm working on...

 

That's a beautiful thing Andy. I'm particularly impressed by the printed sides which you say are based on a recycled (isn't "up-cycling" the new-age term?) SD coach. Any further info on how that was done would be of interest, at least to me anyway.

 

Mike

[sagaguy]

Like Andy,i recycle tatty SD coaches,this is one of Andys SR EMU cab fronts fitted to a SD coach

 

             

 

That coach & end was made into an EMU trailer with my own photoshopped overlays printed on my A3 printer

 

             

 

Useful items Photoshop,printers & scanners,you can make them any shade you like.This is my Nevawassa Hornby Dublo 3 car maroon set with SD MK1 coaches as a base.

 

 

            

 

Heavily modified SD coach to accept an EMU chassis.

 

            

 

                  Ray.