RMweb Gold farren Posted October 1, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 1, 2015 I've just ordered some parts for a signal I would like to build. On London Road Leicester. I did think I had ordered the right parts but the more I look at the photo the less sure I have ordered the right part. I think it's partly due to not being able to see where the balance weights are. I put up a pic of the signal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted October 1, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 1, 2015 The balance weights are at the bottom, merging with the 15 restriction sign. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted October 1, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 1, 2015 Clearer here Leicester North by Ingy The Wingy, on Flickr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold farren Posted October 1, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 1, 2015 Thanks I also see there in multiples too on each side. Slowly learning. The parts turned up today no messing around at wizard models. And have noticed I've ordered the wrong brackets. Any ideas which I should have ordered? I cant find a pic of the ones needed on MSE. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpey Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 There are some more side levers/weights towards the top of the main post at the rear. This structure is steel not wood and is likely to have been to LMS design.. There are some further pictures on the same Flikr collection that beast66606 has shown, these give a better view from differing angles. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted October 2, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 2, 2015 Weight bars up the post was due to having to squeeze a signal into a narrow interval. If they were at the usual place they would be foul of the structure gauge Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Weight bars up the post was due to having to squeeze a signal into a narrow interval. If they were at the usual place they would be foul of the structure gauge Except the signal concerned is not in a narrow interval! But it does have 8 arms and 3 slots, assuming all the distants were worked, which needs more than the two lower mounts to hold them all. Regards PS. You will get almost all the parts you need in Alan Gibson kit 4MM89, see http://www.alangibsonworkshop.com/ and look in the catalogue. MSE sells the same kit, under the same reference no. but there is no illustration on the MSE site. This is a tubular steel signal not a wooden one so your parts list is unsuitable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold farren Posted October 2, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 2, 2015 I now have some spare parts oh well. I can still build some for a friend am sure he will be more than happy.After ordering I went looking on Flickr it seems most are done by alan Gibson. There's a starter under the bridge controlling platform 2. Which seems unusual. And another controlling the goods loop/mpd release. copy right John law copy right ernie brack Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold farren Posted October 3, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 3, 2015 Am I right in thinking the signal on the right is a wooden post with a Midland lower quadrant. But why the spectacle plat is white and the paint is grey instead of black is a good question. The on the right is a metal post possible lms. Could it have been a lower quadrant at some point? Any suggestions for a signaling book that covers 1950's LMR Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 3, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 3, 2015 Am I right in thinking the signal on the right is a wooden post with a Midland lower quadrant. But why the spectacle plat is white and the paint is grey instead of black is a good question. The on the right is a metal post possible lms. Could it have been a lower quadrant at some point? Any suggestions for a signaling book that covers 1950's LMR The Midland Railway painted spectacle plates white hence someone has used the old idea, the colouring of the post is standard latterday LM Region style. The arm is the later Midland pattern in pressed steel the Midland having originally used timber for signal arms - some of which survived into the 1960s.ff The tubular post 'Restricted Height Signal' is an LMS design seemingly dating from 1943 (although the drawing carrying that date might possibly have been a revision - I suspect it was however the design date). In such a location the Midland would probably have used a 'gallows' (or underslung) design. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted October 4, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 4, 2015 Except the signal concerned is not in a narrow interval! But it does have 8 arms and 3 slots, assuming all the distants were worked, which needs more than the two lower mounts to hold them all. Regards I was referring to the signal in the background as mentioned in the previous post, which has the weight bar approx 12-13ft above rail level. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 I was referring to the signal in the background as mentioned in the previous post, which has the weight bar approx 12-13ft above rail level. Well, the only mention of high level weights prior to yours was by Sharpey in the immediate prior post, and was referring to the 3 doll bracket under discussion. No other signal had been mentioned up to then. Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted October 5, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 5, 2015 There are some more side levers/weights towards the top of the main post at the rear. This structure is steel not wood and is likely to have been to LMS design.. There are some further pictures on the same Flikr collection that beast66606 has shown, these give a better view from differing angles. ? Was Sharpey referring to the fact that there are two sets of weight bars on the bracket or those on the straight post further away? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 The bracket was the only signal under discussion, agreed that photo is unfortunate in having the further signal so precisely aligned with the left hand doll, but there are other pics in the flickr link that show better what he meant. eg. https://www.flickr.com/photos/ingythewingy/4799445253/in/photostream/ Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold farren Posted October 6, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 6, 2015 Dose the hight of a doll mean anything? On bracket signals. Looking at other signals it seems that some have one taller than others but they can be in different places Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted October 6, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 6, 2015 The main route is the tallest doll, lower speed diverging routes are on shorter dolls. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 7, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 7, 2015 Dose the hight of a doll mean anything? On bracket signals. Looking at other signals it seems that some have one taller than others but they can be in different places The relative height relates to the relative importance of the routes although - as Signal Engineer has said - that usually means the highest arm refers to the fastest route (but not always although exceptions were rare) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Am I right in thinking the signal on the right is a wooden post with a Midland lower quadrant. But why the spectacle plat is white and the paint is grey instead of black is a good question. The on the right is a metal post possible lms. Could it have been a lower quadrant at some point? Any suggestions for a signaling book that covers 1950's LMR A Pictorial Record of LMS Signals reprinted by Noodle books stacked full of photos, drawings etc - the best book on signals I have ever seen http://www.crecy.co.uk/a-pictorial-record-of-l.m.s-signals?osCsid=fcf002c2e1a6febb290f60b6b857b917 The original print run was only 500 so they were rarer than hen's teeth on the 2nd hand market - Winchester public library's copy was often in my hands! IMHO the reprint is really worth buying. Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold farren Posted October 7, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 7, 2015 Thank you all for all the information. The book is on order from my local book shop. Which uptill now has never let me down. 'Fingers crossed' also on order is the Alan Gibson 4mm89 kit along with other bits not signal related. The next job is to look at some bits to make them work. Hopefully on the cheaper side. Though looking at some others people topics this might be difficult with out spending the best part of a £100! ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted October 7, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 7, 2015 The main route is the tallest doll, lower speed diverging routes are on shorter dolls. From memory the routes were left doll - Up Goods, middle doll - Platform 4, right doll - Up Passenger Plat 3 (straight route) The relative height relates to the relative importance of the routes although - as Signal Engineer has said - that usually means the highest arm refers to the fastest route (but not always although exceptions were rare) In this case I think there was a blanket speed of 15MPH through Leicester Station in the mechanical signalling days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold farren Posted October 7, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 7, 2015 Hi the signalenginer After looking at s-r-s.org it seems that you're right. Though I've only taken a screen shot. And to be honest I've not fully read up about whether am a load to post from there website yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Hi the signalenginer After looking at s-r-s.org it seems that you're right. Though I've only taken a screen shot. And to be honest I've not fully read up about whether am a load to post from there website yet. You can get round any problem of copyright by posting a link to the relevant page of their website. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted October 8, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 8, 2015 From memory the routes were left doll - Up Goods, middle doll - Platform 4, right doll - Up Passenger Plat 3 (straight route) In this case I think there was a blanket speed of 15MPH through Leicester Station in the mechanical signalling days. The flickr page has a full description of the signals. 1980 Appendix 15 mph PSR Platform lines, Leicester North and London Road Junction 15 mph PSR goods lines, 99m 29ch and London Road Junction. (and strangely) 40mph PSR - Passenger trains over goods line 99m 29ch and London Road Junction Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted October 8, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 8, 2015 The flickr page has a full description of the signals. 1980 Appendix 15 mph PSR Platform lines, Leicester North and London Road Junction 15 mph PSR goods lines, 99m 29ch and London Road Junction. (and strangely) 40mph PSR - Passenger trains over goods line 99m 29ch and London Road Junction I seem to recall that the 40 Passenger over Goods Lines applied on other old Midland lines when I was a lad. They were normally permissive and freights just moved up the queue as one went into a yard, but became Absolute Block if they had to be used for passenger trains. Only saw it used once in anger when we had a run-through on the Down Main at Castle Bromwich in 1966. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold farren Posted October 8, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 8, 2015 if i've done this right the top one should be the north end where the pic of the signal is. the second should be engine sidings and the last the south side http://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/lmsr/M432.gif http://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/lmsr/M872.gif http://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/lmsr/M380.gif Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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