Class 20 with ZIMO's new MX649 sound decoder. Brilliant.

[pauliebanger]

Hi Everyone,

 

If you have been following my Hornby Magazine DCC sound fitting features recently, you will have seen that I've been bitten by the challenge  of fitting sound to N gauge locos, aided by the excellent range of miniature decoders from ZIMO.  

 

There is now a family of narrower (9mm width)  sound decoders, MX649.

 

Although I've used tham in and N gauge loco, they will work perfectly well in 00 gauge too. Especially useful for small steam shunters where available space might be too tight for other sound decoders.
 

I've just completed my installation of sound in a Farish Class 20, using one of the new ZIMO MX649 6 pin decoders.

(I have the 6 pin on a harness and 8 pin on a harness too).
 

The slim, 9mm, width makes the job so much more straightforward and makes the LokMicro look like something out of the 'Land of the Giants' (for those of you old enough to remember that program).
 

I've upgraded my ProtoDrive Class 20 project this week to sort out a technical problem but especially to match the characteristics of the model and speaker (small sugar cube).
 

The result is the best Class 20 sound (I am slightly biased in this, perhaps) and of course it features the new Brake Key which I have been developing with ZIMO for the last 20 months or so. This works like the real loco braking system, short dabs give moderate brake force, longer gives progressively more. How did we manage without working brakes for so long?
 

It's hard to appreciate the difference this makes unless you can see it in action and use it yourself.
 

This special project is only available from Digtrains who will have the entire family of MX649 decoders available from tomorrow.
 

I've made a short video clip of the 20, but processing it for You Tube takes some time and uploading is a nightmare when you have as slow an internet connection as mine.
 

Kind regards,

Paul

[Gordon D]

Paul,

Any chance of some pictures of the installation? or will it be published in a later issue of the Hornby Magazine?

 

Regards,

Gordon D

[pauliebanger]

Hornby Magazine? You'll have to ask the editor.

 

In the meantime, here's the clip.

 

Remember, this is an N gauge loco.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFqHyWwM5Dc&feature=youtu.be

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

[bigal10]

Bloody Hell !

 

It's got full lighting as well, Paul, please tell me it's got cab lights too !

 

Why can't Bachmann manage all that in 00 ?

 

Alan

[boxbrownie]

That sounds amazing Paul..........presume the smallest SC speaker in there?

 

[pauliebanger]

Bloody Hell !

 

It's got full lighting as well, Paul, please tell me it's got cab lights too !

 

Why can't Bachmann manage all that in 00 ?

 

Alan

 

Alan,

 

If it had, it would only light up the speaker. Lol

 

Paul

[pauliebanger]

That sounds amazing Paul..........presume the smallest SC speaker in there?

 

 

David,

 

Yes that's right, the 8 x 12mm. Slight modified.

 

Paul

[MR PJ]

Evening,

Sounds excellent to me - I am definitely going to get a couple of these for my loco's, although I will probably hard wire the MX649s, as I will be running the loco's as a pair and don't require the nose end lighting anyway.

 

I assume this project will be available as an A & B pair for double-heading at some point Paul, i.e. the second loco running in "reverse"?

 

Having just taken a Farish 20 apart (in the excitement of finally being able to sound fit them!) I reckon I could remove the LED board from the nose and remove a few mm of metal from the chassis behind here to fit a small sugar-cube.

So, it would be possible to fit the cab lights, albeit there is not much to see inside an N gauge 20 cab!

Alternatively it might be possible to put sugar cube on the top of the chassis, but there is not a lot of room if you want to re-use the screws that secure the circuit board, in order to give a good electrical connection. I fully imagine that one or two people out there are already working on this....

 

Cheers,

Paul

[bigal10]

I visited Digitrains yesterday, Wednesday 11/11/15, to have my 00 guage Bachmann 20 reblown to Paul's new active drive scheme, and it's wonderful, thanks again Paul!

Whilst I was there, Jeremy was keen to show the Farish N guage 66, which they have just done, and put the YouTube video elsewhere on this forum.

It's also quite amazing, from a sound perspective. The speaker is a bog standard sugar cube, no mods, but placed in #1 end, with the cab floor and desk removed, - the lights still work fine, and as the speaker is black, and the loco is weathered, there's not much to see in the cab anyway.

A great effort from all concerned,

Regards,
Alan.

Edited November 12, 2015 by bigal10

[MR PJ]

Good evening,

 

Please see a video of newly converted Class 20 pairing fitted with MX649 decoders and Paul Chetter's proto-drive project - which is indeed excellent! He has created A and B units, which enables prototypical double-heading with one loco powering up slightly after the other amongst other features.

 

Both loco's are hard-wired. 20063 has the speaker in the cab. With 20192 I removed the superfluous lighting board in the nose end, removed about 3mm of metal from the chassis at this end, and placed the speaker in the nose. This conversion was actually easier, and enabled me to fit the cab light. 4mm modellers eat your hearts out! I'm sorry that my camera is not good at taking fast moving shots, but I am sure you will enjoy the thrash...

 

https://youtu.be/xM7fB5UcTvA

 

Thanks,

Paul

Edited January 22, 2016 by MR PJ

[dasatcopthorne]

Good evening,

 

Please see a video of newly converted Class 20 pairing fitted with MX649 decoders and Paul Chetter's proto-drive project - which is indeed excellent! He has created A and B units, which enables prototypical double-heading with one loco powering up slightly after the other amongst other features.

 

Both loco's are hard-wired. 20063 has the speaker in the cab. With 20192 I removed the superfluous lighting board in the nose end, removed about 3mm of metal from the chassis at this end, and placed the speaker in the nose. This conversion was actually easier, and enabled me to fit the cab light. 4mm modellers eat your hearts out! I'm sorry that my camera is not good at taking fast moving shots, but I am sure you will enjoy the thrash...

 

https://youtu.be/xM7fB5UcTvA

 

Thanks,

Paul

 

Very nice. But.

 

I have 2 x 00 Class 20s fitted with Biffo's sounds. Each starts/stops very slightly before/after the other and sounds absolutely fantastic.

 

Dave

[pauliebanger]

Very nice. But.

 

I have 2 x 00 Class 20s fitted with Biffo's sounds. Each starts/stops very slightly before/after the other and sounds absolutely fantastic.

 

Dave

 

Good for you Dave. But.

 

This is a thread about ZIMO and N gauge models, don't see the relevance of what your 00 gauge ESU equipped models have to do with it, seems to fail on two counts.

 

One starts before the other and so do all the ramp up and down transitions. The cab doors only sound at the leading end depending on direction of travel, as do the horns, which are different in each loco. Plenty more sounds are 'ended'.

 

Like all my projects, they have Heavy Train/ Light Engine mode where not only do the sounds operate differently but have different rates of acceleration (inertia) and deceleration (momentum) so that in light engine they respond more quickly to throttle commands.

 

And they have Dynamic Inertia. The way the throttle is opened can affect the rate of acceleration, wide open throttle gives up to 3 times higher acceleration than if opened gently, even in Heavy Train mode.

 

Oh, and they are both equipped with 'working brake' feature which actually slows down the loco not just play a sound, as are my 00 gauge projects, which, incidentally cost £85 for decoder and speaker. How much did you pay or yours?

 

Kind regads,

 

Paul

[MR PJ]

Hi Dave,

 

Glad you like Biffo's sounds, and I am sure they are also very good too (although the projects I have got from Biffo do not have the same level of driving features as described by Paul Chetter) - but I would like to see someone try and get a Loksound into a 2mm gauge 20! That's the magic of the new MX649 decoder.

A lot of people complain the Bachmann 4mm model doesn't even have directional lights  - so I thought I would have a go at adding cab-lighting into my model just to prove what can be done in 2mm, even with my limited installation skills.

 

With the cab light you probably would not have noticed - but there is an added bit of Zimo wizardry - the cab light only illuminates when the loco is stationary with a few CV changes. Oh, sorry forgot  the 4mm model doesn't have any lighting  to worry about. I guess you could retro fit utilising swiss-mapping?

 

Regards,

[Albion47509]

Hi - was completely blown away by the posted links with regards to this superb decoder and sound project, so decided to have a go myself - To try and improve the sound further I've experimented with larger speakers in the nose area which also has the advantage of keeping the  cab clear for detailing. As I wanted to run my 20's as a pair, the nose end lighting wasn't required, so I decided to sacrifice this for (hopefully) volume.

Following a lengthy evaluation process, I decided the best speaker for the job was the YouChoos Limo curve 9 - this requires a portion of the chassis to be removed in the nose area to accommodate the speakers, but if running in a pair, should not effect the haulage capacity too much.

I've attached a pic of the completed project (Chassis only), but please follow the links to my SmugMug site for instructions and a video of the locos before cosmetic work.

 

https://tonybuckton.smugmug.com/NGaugeModels/Graham-Farish-Class-20-sound-p/Construction/i-htWM6Js/A

 

 

[MR PJ]

Hi,

A very similar conversion to what I did on 20192, and am in the process of doing the same with my other 20 (annoyingly lost the cab detail part from this one, but not the end of the world as will be able to make something from plasticard).

 

Just make sure there is plenty of insulating tape between the speaker and chassis to avoid shorts! You should be able to add cab lighting, but would need an extra resistor for this. I have amended a couple of CVs, so that the cab lighting comes on only when the loco is stationary (avoids some button pushing, note loco lights need to be illuminated): CV33 = 5, CV34 = 6, CV127 = 60.

 

I am not sure if its possible to make the cab-lighting directional or not, which would be useful when the locos are operating as a pair, maybe Paul Chetter may know the further CV changes to enable this?

 

Regards,

Paul

[pauliebanger]

Hi,

A very similar conversion to what I did on 20192, and am in the process of doing the same with my other 20 (annoyingly lost the cab detail part from this one, but not the end of the world as will be able to make something from plasticard).

 

Just make sure there is plenty of insulating tape between the speaker and chassis to avoid shorts! You should be able to add cab lighting, but would need an extra resistor for this. I have amended a couple of CVs, so that the cab lighting comes on only when the loco is stationary (avoids some button pushing, note loco lights need to be illuminated): CV33 = 5, CV34 = 6, CV127 = 60.

 

I am not sure if its possible to make the cab-lighting directional or not, which would be useful when the locos are operating as a pair, maybe Paul Chetter may know the further CV changes to enable this?

 

Regards,

Paul

 

Hi Paul,

 

Yes. To make each cab light direction dependent and illuminate only at standing, put CV 127 = 61 in one decoder and CV127 = 62 in the other. If the 'wrong' loco's cab light illuminates, swap the values of CV127 for each decoder.

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

Edited February 22, 2016 by pauliebanger

[Albion47509]

Thanks for the tip on the CV's - I may well try this with smaller resistors.

Another mod that I have done is to change the LED colour to a more pleasing warm white on the forward marker lights - for this I used 0.7mm warm white surface mount type from DCC Supplies. I found that the farish ones are in parallel, so any unwanted ones can be simply snapped off (I'm modelling the mid 80's and the centre ones were not usually lit). I then filed the required ones back to the copper on the board, and stuck the new ones in place with conductive paint from Halfords - this works very well and is much easier than trying to solder the darn things.

I'll post further pics when I've finished the cosmetics. 

[Albion47509]

It's taken quite a while, but at last the finished project - presenting 20015 and 20008 in mid 80's condition - complete with great sound.

[59004 ( was Shedcombe....)]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ID8MSuehjkk

 

Magnificent, in all aspects (modelling/modification, weathering and sound).

 

 

Regards,

Michel

[boxbrownie]

Well considering that's N Gauge it is pretty amazing, just one thing........why no exhaust smoke? 

[graeme02041645]

Hope someone can help. I have two Farish 20s fitted with the Paul Chetter sounds running on layout controlled by NCE Powercab. The questions I have relate to gunning them together.

Not that experienced in using the Powercab to full effect so would welcome some help. if I consist them, the functions only workin the lead loco e.g. when F6 is activated, the sound drops back in the lead loco but not in the second one. Any thoughts?

Also, what should I change to make the power kick in at different times for each loco.

Graeme.

[Albion47509]

Hi Graeme,

I also use a NCE Powercab - mine is the wired version which has not had the software update from a few years back, so can't guarantee it will work as yours.

I did have some issues when consisting my class 20's as well - I couldn't get the active braking to work on both loco's, so found one would be braking whilst the other was still running - at that point I decided to just give them the same address as I only wanted to run them as a pair anyway - this did mean I had to lower the horn volume to 0 on each loco for each direction,  but I was O.K. with that.

As for the sound synchronisation - the loco's only start at different times and run out of sync with each other if you have the decoders loaded with A & B unit sound files - this gives the best results, as the sounds are slightly out of sync when running and create a kind of reverberation between them.

If you have just installed two decoders without specifying A or B units they will be in sync and won't sound as good - if this is the case, Digitrains can re-blow one of them to a B unit for a modest fee - I believe this can be done on the track without removing the decoder.

 

Hope this helps,

Tony

[Albion47509]

RE Last Post,

 

Horns - from memory, I may have even just turned the horn volume off on one loco - either way, if this isn't done, both horns sound together if given the same address.

[NorthBritish]

Hi Paul,

 

I've followed your DCC sound fitting projects with great interest in Hornby Magazine. It would be nice to have a database some where with all of the projects listed to make it easier to find the relevant guide in the future. I'm currently working slowly through my diesel locomotives and fitting sound/stay alive and will need to convert a Hornby Class 08 shunter.

 

I'm going to have to go through every edition checking until I find the relevant article. The Unrebuilt West Country is even further into the mists of time and I'll be pulling that guide also!

 

Incidentally I've fitted Digitrains own stay alive to the DMU classes 105, 108 and Derby Lightweight which have the Zimo MX648 decoder as per your fitting guide. Could hide the stay alive away inside the body without really being able to see it and the length of time they can provide power is incredible.

 

Cheers,

 

Simon