HD on Peco Track?

[Nearholmer]

Folks

 

Noticing Golden Fleece's layout (very nice indeed) in the Garratt thread (big, aren't they!), can I check something?

 

Do HD locos and stock run well through Peco Code 100 points?

 

I sort of hope that the answer is "no", because random layout plans and collecting obsessions tend to start with innocent questions like this ..........

 

Kevin

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Hopes confounded. The answer is 'really well'. I saw a layout some years ago all Peco Streamline code 100, with the 3rd rail added, and it ran beautifully. The original HD looked way better on the easy radius curves and large radius points. The owner exhibited an all H-D layout based on the old advert plan, but at home operated on modern track because it ran so much better.

[LNER4479]

Runs on Code75 just as well too!

[Nearholmer]

Oh, no!

 

Sorry, I mean: thank you chaps.

 

Without any conscious guidance, my brain has already started forming devious plans involving the facility to switch between two and three rail electrification. What is worse, I've noticed that there is space for a shelf, about a foot wide, running above my 0 gauge layout, at "standing up" height.

 

Kevin

[Il Grifone]

Peco Streamline was originally devised as a compromise to take 'scale' (BRMSB/NMRA) wheels at one extreme and Tri-ang at the other. Dublo wheels* fall in the middle and are thus ideal. (Later Hornby wheels are to the same standards thus are equally at home.) The only possible problem is the square Peco railhead compared with Dublo's round section. The Dublo sintered iron wheelsets have a nasty square profile, but I don't think it's really significant.

 

* Nominally 14.2mm back to back (the thick flange means that the check gauge is correct at 15mm). IIRC the flange depth is a rather generous 1.6mm (1/16").

[BR60103]

I think all my HD runs on Peco Code 100. Running on Code 70 varies, but most of the locos rise up on the chairs and lose contact.

TriAng of the same era is even worse on the Code 70.

[Nearholmer]

Thanks, Gents, for further reassurance.

 

Next research topic is whether HD and Wrenn mechs are controllable to reasonable speeds; I hate "scalectrix with trains".

 

Memory tells me that they are, but the comparators 40+ years ago were Triang, which definitely weren't very controllable, and an ancient GF loco that was beyond my then abilities to get to run at all!

 

Kevin

[Flying Pig]

Crikey, my 70s era Wrenn 8F with the big ringfield motor would crawl slower than just about anything I've seen under the sophisticated urging of an H&M Duette. And to be fair, contemporary X04 powered Triang-Hornby wasn't bad. The limitation was poor pickup, usually on no more than 4 wheels. I guess 3 rail might be better in that respect.

[Fat Controller]

I think all my HD runs on Peco Code 100. Running on Code 70 varies, but most of the locos rise up on the chairs and lose contact.

TriAng of the same era is even worse on the Code 70.

You wait till you try Trix Twin. That even rode on the 'chairs' on Triang Super-4.

[Il Grifone]

To be fair, Trix Twin had its origins in the 1920s Bing Table Railway in the days when scale = tinplate. It needs to run on Trix track or Wrenn universal or similar.

 

The rolling stock can be made to run, albeit bumpily, on HD 3 rail by resetting the back to back. 

[Golden Fleece 30]

Hello Kevin, thanks for the comment. If you look at most of my videos you will see lots of Hornby Dublo locos running through Peco code 100 points. These are the newer type universal ones, changed about 20 years ago to a finer flangeway, and Dublo run even better on these than the original universal ones. Peco did not think they would but they are brilliant. A couple of weeks ago I 3-railed a Peco 3 way point and that is on YouTube in operation.

 

Garry

[Il Grifone]

Dublo standards are a bit sloppy and tightening them up won't hurt at all. There should be no problem whatsoever with modern code 100 track, which is designed for Hornby's standards which is probably the only part of Dublo to survive into the Tri-ang empire (Ringfield motors possibly but these did not originate with Meccano Ltd. I believe).

 

As to slow running, My H & M Powermaster* will tame anything (even Lima or Tri-ang 0-4-0 racers). I have an electronic feedback controller which will do the same.

 

* now long in the tooth, but cutting edge in its day - a variable transformer with 'Variwave' (variable half wave pulse-power').

[Nearholmer]

Thanks Chaps.

 

Grifone - I greatly like variable-ratio-transformer controllers, there is a sort of "electrical purity" about them. Many years ago, I used to use a rather impressive one, capable of delivering thousands of amps at <5V, as part of my work; it was quite a bit bigger than an H&M Powermaster, or a typical laboratory Variac!

 

Kevin

[Jenny Emily]

Hornby Dublo 2 rail stock runs just fine on my shed layout, although the locomotives do tend to bludgeon their way through pointwork rather than having the smooth grace of more modern stuff. No derailment problems though, and it's reliable enough.

[Il Grifone]

There shouldn't be problems with R-T-R pointwork (code 100 anyway). Dublo standards have been the industry standard until recently. (Ever since the introduction of 'System 6' trackwork in the late sixties.)

 

There mat be problems with trackwork to BRMSB or NMRA standards. The check span is a little wide for Dublo. (14mm BRMSB, 14.15 +/- .05mm NMRA). I wouldn't recommend 'easing the check rails' as suggested in the review of the Dublo R1 in one of the magazines way back.

 

http://www.nmra.org/index-nmra-standards-and-recommended-practices (S-3.2).

[BR60103]

You may have to rummage through the used track bins at your local shop or a show, looking for points made in the same era. Take a set of vernier calipers with you with the dimensions written down.

When I had NMRA standard turnouts on my layout, I found that some of the Dublo and lots of the Tri-Ang would jam in the frogs or check rails -- the flanges were wider than the flangeways and wheels just wedged in.

[Golden Fleece 30]

As I have said you do not need old universal points for Dublo stock.  My layout is full of the new universal points (code 100) and Dublo is very smooth through them, far better than the older ones.  In fact I have just 3-railed their 3 way point which works a treat as here.

 

 

The scissors crossover is the standard 4 points and short crossing but cut up and modified to give 2" track centres as opposed to the normal 3" centres.

 

Garry

[Colin_McLeod]

I think it's wonderful that so many people run Hornby Dublo both 2 and 3 rail. Who knows but Hornby Dublo may well have developed flexible track 3 way points etc if they had kept going.

[Golden Fleece 30]

Wrenn did flexible 3-rail track amd points in the 50's and 60's but it was fibre based and difficult to curve properly. The lengths I had were kept for the straight sections and the less said about the points the better. I guess a few had success but it was not for me. I like to think Dublo may have done similar but they were concentrating more on 2-rail in their last couple of years.

[sagaguy]

As I have said you do not need old universal points for Dublo stock.  My layout is full of the new universal points (code 100) and Dublo is very smooth through them, far better than the older ones.  In fact I have just 3-railed their 3 way point which works a treat as here.

 

 

The scissors crossover is the standard 4 points and short crossing but cut up and modified to give 2" track centres as opposed to the normal 3" centres.

 

Garry

At least,you don`t have to worry about frog polarity,i wired a Peco N live frog 3 way point a while ago,2 point motors & accessory switches & a heap of wiring.Dublo tinplate track is so easy to wire up.

 

                        Ray.

[Golden Fleece 30]

I know what you mean Ray, 20 odd years ago I used the N gauge Peco live frog scissors crossing in my N gauge layout.

 

Garry

[Golden Fleece 30]

You can have issues with Peco diamonds though as the running rails are metal they will short out when the centre collector crosses them so mine has switches to alter this depending on which direction you are running over it.

[Il Grifone]

I thought of doing this and switching the polarity from the signal settings. (It would involve complicated wiring and relays.)

 

Another of those things I never got around to.......

 

(Maybe, one day!)