Christleton Junction - 1986 - Gateway to North Wales

[61656]

A couple of views of the arch insert in place. Not quite as tricky a job as I expected, but not something I’m keen on repeating anytime soon. Which is unfortunate as there’s another one to do about 3 arches down! 
 

The pavements are just loosely placed on, and there’s some heavy lifting to be done disguising the various joins and imperfections. 

 

 

 

[5BarVT]

Arch looks good.  Without the ‘roof’ it would be noticeable and that means you would notice it every time.  Worth the pain.

Paul.

[61656]

The class 304 has arrived…

 

 

I’m not sure how much of the 117 I’ll actually use, possibly just the underframes as they are the right length. The roof sections are also probably worth using. 
 

I had completely forgotten about Lima flanges though. It sounds like a tank running over loose cobbles. I was thinking if nothing else it will be a handy 3 car unit to run until I have something better, but it will need new wheels and DCC fitting as a minimum. 

[61656]

With a definite feeling of storm clouds gathering and some rain in the air, a 47 lifts an early evening parcels service out towards Manchester. There’s a hint of wheel squeal as the driver eases the train through the pointwork, before opening the regulator wide and unleashing the power with a plume of smoke. 
 

[ISW]

12 hours ago, 61656 said:

but it will need new wheels and DCC fitting as a minimum.

and some additional pickups. You may also want to add pickups to the adjacent coach to reduce the chance of losing power through pointwork and/or less than pristine tracks. Flush glazing also works wonders to the 'look'.

 

Ian

Edited March 10, 2023 by ISW
flush glazing added.

[61656]

5 minutes ago, ISW said:

and some additional pickups. You may also want to add pickups to the adjacent coach to reduce the chance of losing power through pointwork and/or less than pristine tracks. Flush glazing also works wonders to the 'look'.

 

Ian

It all depends on how much I want to keep it. It will either be the basis of the 304, converted to a 116, or maybe a 128 parcels unit…

 

Flush glazing isn’t currently available, which is probably good because I could get very distracted working on a unit that I don’t want!

[ISW]

8 minutes ago, 61656 said:

Flush glazing isn’t currently available, which is probably good because I could get very distracted working on a unit that I don’t want!

I used SE Finecast SE12 windows on my Lima 3-car Class 117 and it made quite an improvement. As far as I can tell, these are still available ... 

 

Distracting it maybe, but fitting the glazing was nice and easy. I seem to recall the hardest part was getting the bodyshell off.

 

Ian

[5BarVT]

14 hours ago, 61656 said:

I had completely forgotten about Lima flanges

Peters Spares do replacement wheels for Lima 117.  Unpowered just drop straight in, I think they do powered too but that depends on what you’re doing to the power bogie.

Not sure how rivet counterish you’re intending to be - did the AM4s have the ex LNER bogie like the AM3s?

Paul.

 

[61656]

2 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

Peters Spares do replacement wheels for Lima 117.  Unpowered just drop straight in, I think they do powered too but that depends on what you’re doing to the power bogie.

Not sure how rivet counterish you’re intending to be - did the AM4s have the ex LNER bogie like the AM3s?

Paul.

 

I’ll start off with the intention of perfect and slowly relax standards as I progress! But it will definitely have Gresley bogies. I think the power bogies were a slightly meatier Gresley bogie…

 

I have managed to find some BR drawings (will share later) and am doing a rough parts list.

[61656]

Momentarily the 304 project takes back stage due to another new arrival. Once I’d run through the timetable I knew that I could really do with 6 units to operate the services effectively. 
 

1. Helsby shuttle - 101

2. Hooton shuttle - 108

3. Man Vic services - 108

4. Man Pic / Oxford Rd - 304

5. West Midlands services - 116/120?

6. North Wales Coast -?

 

Obviously, AC traction aside, units will intermix on services. So I was looking for something plausible that’s also available ready to run. The Heljan 104 may or may not turn up this year (and even if it does north of £300 plus sound unit may make it less attractive than a 142). 
 

And then I found this. A handful were still operating in all over blue in the North West in 86, so a 105 fits well. 
 

 

Advertised as DC, I was pleasantly surprised to find that this was a fairly well fitted DCC example, with chips in both cars. Here we see the ‘trailer’ car being moved onto shed ready for removal of the headcode box. The power car runs great, but I haven’t yet figured out how to fit the sound chip in the tiny space Bachmann allowed. 
 

There’s either going to be some angle grinding or some wire lengthening to make it work, but it seems like a nice little unit, and a twin rather than triple windscreen with all over blue livery is satisfyingly pleasing.

Edited March 11, 2023 by 61656
Typo

[61656]

 

Possibly the hardest sound unit I’ve fitted to date, an epic battle between man and plastic body clips. I’ll probably need to take the body off to smooth over the headcode boxes too, so I can look forward to it all over again!

 

I want to do a little research on 105s first though. They are a class I know very little about and I was surprised that they made the late 80’s as I don’t remember them at all. As far as I can work out just a lone power car (DMCL) was allocated to the North West in 86, at Newton Heath. Most were based in East Anglia, but a few held on in Lincoln and even Ayr. 
 

A relatively quick search on Flickr shows that they ended up everywhere in the late 80’s, presumably being non-standard they were first to be loaned out should another depot come asking. 

[ISW]

14 hours ago, 61656 said:

Possibly the hardest sound unit I’ve fitted to date, an epic battle between man and plastic body clips.

I seem to recall having similar problems with my Class 105, bought off TheBay. Mine came chipped (from the vendor I believe) but both were fitted 'backwards' (aka 180-degrees out) rendering the lighting non-functional. That was easy to fix, unlike the process of actually accessing them.

 

Mine are just DCC. Do you have a photo of how you managed to squeeze in DCC sound?

 

Ian

[61656]

On 12/03/2023 at 13:15, ISW said:

I seem to recall having similar problems with my Class 105, bought off TheBay. Mine came chipped (from the vendor I believe) but both were fitted 'backwards' (aka 180-degrees out) rendering the lighting non-functional. That was easy to fix, unlike the process of actually accessing them.

 

Mine are just DCC. Do you have a photo of how you managed to squeeze in DCC sound?

 

Ian

I didn’t take any photos as I was too ashamed! I will do when it comes apart for modernising. 
 

I soldered extra wires to allow the microchip to fit in the seating bay, with the speaker currently standing in the vestibule. This is very much temporary. 
 

I think the solution for all my units is to mount the speaker in the underframe between the battery boxes or fuel tank, and cut the seats to have the chip below them, but keeping the seat backs. 

[61656]

As ever I’ve given myself a massive list of jobs to get done, but find myself away from home for several of the next few weeks. I’ve decided to put together a build list for the 304 and then to start sourcing the best parts. For most components the best source is reasonably clear, although availability may be an issue. 
 

Replica Railways seem to do most of the frames, bodyside, windows and roofs, whilst Wizard do some good looking Gresley bogies. There doesn’t look like too much to go underneath, some battery boxes and some air reservoirs. Cab glazing looks like a PITA, but I think patience and effort will solve that. 
 

There are a couple of bits I could do with help on:

 

What sort of pantograph did they have? All the shots of them are front view, so the pan is at least two cars back. It looks like it might be a Stone Faiveley, which DC kits still do (hopefully). 
 

I could also do with a photo between coaches. The details I have show them to be non-gangwayed with a fixed bar coupling. Presumably they had at least two air pipes, ETH and some form of TDM cables on an otherwise standard mk1 suburban coach end?

 

Any help much appreciated. 

[St Enodoc]

7 hours ago, 61656 said:

Stone Faiveley

 

[61656]

Some progress with the canal bridge to report. This is probably the wrong way around, as almost certainly the canal came first! Building the arch was a pig of a job, and there’s a couple of fillets of plastikard brickwork to make everything meet up. I’m fairly sure they’ll be invisible once painted and weathered. 
 

 

The towpath is roughly painted but will be covered with various scenics, so it’s just a base-coat for now. The first bridge takes the canal under the Warrington lines, before diving under the Chester lines and White Lane carriage sidings towards the warehouse. 
 

 

I also tried to fix the lighting on the 101, which only works in one direction on the trailer car. I’d previously tracked this down to a faulty PCB card and finally found a replacement. Sadly it’s a poor diagnosis as the new card has the same issue, so it must be the output from the master card in the power unit not switching the polarity correctly. It did at least give me an opportunity for a line up of bog carts. 
 

 

And then a pair of 20’s helped me shunt some assorted empty coaching stock out of the way. 20’s on parcels seem to have been very rare!

 

[5BarVT]

Sorry to be a pain (well, maybe not that sorry).

The canal looks rather narrow compared to the towpath, and, more importantly, not wide enough to get boats round the corner.

8-9’ through a bridge as long as it is straight on both approaches, the inside of the curve between the two bridge alignments needs to allow for the overhang of a 70’ boat.

Given, as you say, that the canal will have been there first, it would have been wider and not narrowed artificially to create a wide towpath.

 

How easy would it be to widen the canal and narrow the towpath, or at least give the illusion of?

 

Paul.

[61656]

4 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

Sorry to be a pain (well, maybe not that sorry).

The canal looks rather narrow compared to the towpath, and, more importantly, not wide enough to get boats round the corner.

8-9’ through a bridge as long as it is straight on both approaches, the inside of the curve between the two bridge alignments needs to allow for the overhang of a 70’ boat.

Given, as you say, that the canal will have been there first, it would have been wider and not narrowed artificially to create a wide towpath.

 

How easy would it be to widen the canal and narrow the towpath, or at least give the illusion of?

 

Paul.

Paul,

 

It’s a good question, and such comments are always appreciated - particularly before I’ve glued anything down!

 

Here’s a photo with my 275mm x 31 mm Lego canal boat - 68’ x 7’9”. It can just manoeuvre through without touching the sides, but only just. 
 

The canal through the bridge is 68mm, which is 17’. I thought this is probably wide enough, but it could be 100mm (25’) without any issue. In my experience canal width varies massively, but I take your point that they wouldn’t have narrowed it unnecessarily. I’ll see about widening it, which shouldn’t be too much work, and still much less than that curved arch!

 

[5BarVT]

17 minutes ago, 61656 said:

Here’s a photo with my 275mm x 31 mm Lego canal boat - 68’ x 7’9”. It can just manoeuvre through without touching the sides, but only just. 

And that just demonstrates why one shouldn’t assume.  My towpath is your cut and your cut is my towpath!!!

That’s big enough as it is, I’ve been on canals as tight as that.

Paul.

[61656]

1 hour ago, 5BarVT said:

And that just demonstrates why one shouldn’t assume.  My towpath is your cut and your cut is my towpath!!!

That’s big enough as it is, I’ve been on canals as tight as that.

Paul.

You’ve sown the seed now though! A good contractor can smell a change request from a mile away. 

[coronach]

On 11/03/2023 at 22:42, 61656 said:

 

Possibly the hardest sound unit I’ve fitted to date, an epic battle between man and plastic body clips. I’ll probably need to take the body off to smooth over the headcode boxes too, so I can look forward to it all over again!

 

I want to do a little research on 105s first though. They are a class I know very little about and I was surprised that they made the late 80’s as I don’t remember them at all. As far as I can work out just a lone power car (DMCL) was allocated to the North West in 86, at Newton Heath. Most were based in East Anglia, but a few held on in Lincoln and even Ayr. 
 

A relatively quick search on Flickr shows that they ended up everywhere in the late 80’s, presumably being non-standard they were first to be loaned out should another depot come asking. 

There were several based at BG in the 1970s - I would see them at York on trains from Hull and Selby.  They were terrible to ride in - very rough, despite looking more like a Mk1 coach that other DMU classes.  None were refurbished.

 

[61656]

Got the navvies out and widen the canal by 3’. It makes an appreciable difference. It definitely allows a bit more swing room for the novice bargee!
 

[5BarVT]

10 hours ago, 61656 said:

Got the navvies out and widen the canal by 3’. It makes an appreciable difference. It definitely allows a bit more swing room for the novice bargee!

That does look a lot better.  Hope the VO wasn’t too big.

20 hours ago, 61656 said:

You’ve sown the seed now though! A good contractor can smell a change request from a mile away. 

Twas ‘the other contractor’ that had the reputation of pricing low with the VOs already written in.

Paul.

[61656]

A very long overdue progress update, of which there is definitely some!

 

At the North East end, the bridge to hide the fiddle yard entrance on the Warrington lines is beginning to take shape. Quite a tricky structure given the curve, narrow baseboard and backscene angle. 
 

 

My other two bridges are brick and girder, this will be slightly different using a concrete beam (the bridge being rebuilt for electrification) with a wooden superstructure. This is loosely based on a bridge between Leeds and Neville Hill. 
 

 

There will be a short stone section of retaining wall before a set of maintenance access steps in the gap. There’s not much stone in this area of the world, but a few sections certainly add variety. On the inside of the curve will be a grass embankment slowly sloping down to the viaduct. This section has to be slim as I need to be able to reach over to the 7 fiddleyard roads behind. 
 

At the south end, the platforms have been smoothed and repainted. They need some detail adding to the fronts before I add the coping stones. 
 

 

I’m running through the revised timetable again too. The south end shot is taken of an 85 stabled on the middle road, the two electric stabling points being full. A slowly growing loco fleet means a lot more traction can be stabled. I’m not yet sure if this will interfere with a freight service! The morning peak is just starting, with 3 units ticking over in the bays. Another two units will join them shortly. 

[61656]

You don’t do an update for ages, and then two come along at once! A little more progress on the bridge, including a pipe running along the front. You see loads of these but I’m never sure what’s in them. Gas, water or sewage seem the obvious candidates. 
 

A class 47 runs the first transpennine service from Manchester Vic towards Bangor. This should be a 45/1, so there are doubtless a few disgruntled window hangers. At least at Christleton there’s a chance of improvement when the loco swaps to change direction. 
 

As far as possible I like to go buy my supplies from model shops, but I don’t like the nearest one, so I’ve resorted to an online order for the stone walling.