Christleton Junction - 1986 - Gateway to North Wales

[5BarVT]

How much space have you got for the canal?  North of Nantwich, the Shroppie was a broad (14’) canal: it looks like you have enough width at the bridge holes, but what about turning room?  A 70’ narrow boat or barge needs quite a lot of bow room to turn.

Paul.

[tractionman]

The columns under the bridge look great, are these proprietary items or home-made?

 

I'm looking into something similar for my layout, so watching your progress with interest.

 

all the best,

 

Keith

[EuroMST]

On 22/11/2022 at 15:06, 61656 said:

1D43 was hot on the heels of 1D42 all the way! It left Euston 9 minutes behind and left Crewe just 14 minutes behind, a margin it maintained all the way to Holyhead, despite an additional stop at Bangor (neither stopped at LJ). 

My apologies, I got the stops wrong. 1D42 was non-stop Chester to Holyhead 12.37 / 14.05. 1D43 stopped only at Bangor, 20 mins later out of Chester and 24 minutes later arriving into Holyhead. These are the Summer 1983 timings.

[61656]

5 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

How much space have you got for the canal?  North of Nantwich, the Shroppie was a broad (14’) canal: it looks like you have enough width at the bridge holes, but what about turning room?  A 70’ narrow boat or barge needs quite a lot of bow room to turn.

Paul.

It will be a narrow canal! Maximum boat length will be interesting for the corners - 70’ is 28cm so not a small dimension by any means. Luckily in 1986 all it will need to fit is a 3’ shopping trolley.

 

The canal is 8cm wide, so 20’. I just need to make sure that a 25cm x 3cm barge can negotiate the tight corner. 

[61656]

5 hours ago, tractionman said:

The columns under the bridge look great, are these proprietary items or home-made?

 

I'm looking into something similar for my layout, so watching your progress with interest.

 

all the best,

 

Keith

They are 8mm wooden dowel on top of 20mm dowel bases. Just things I had spare that looked like various photos I’d been looking at. They have been painted in two coats of Dulux Trade cannonball*.
 

I’m fortunate in having a spares collection that is disproportionate to any projects I’ve actually completed. 

*Somewhere there is a person whose job it is to name paint colours. As far as I can tell this must involve drinking until you think up a better term for ‘almost indistinguishable from black’. 

[61656]

16 minutes ago, EuroMST said:

My apologies, I got the stops wrong. 1D42 was non-stop Chester to Holyhead 12.37 / 14.05. 1D43 stopped only at Bangor, 20 mins later out of Chester and 24 minutes later arriving into Holyhead. These are the Summer 1983 timings.

My timetable is Summer 1986. 1D42 only ran until 27 September. Both have the code ⚫️ (aircon) and ➕(100mph). Both are booked for max load 455 tonnes (15 mk2s?), with 86/2 to Crewe and 47/4 onwards. Presumably there was a big boat leaving Holyhead shortly after arrival. 

[EuroMST]

1 hour ago, 61656 said:

My timetable is Summer 1986. 1D42 only ran until 27 September. Both have the code ⚫️ (aircon) and ➕(100mph). Both are booked for max load 455 tonnes (15 mk2s?), with 86/2 to Crewe and 47/4 onwards. Presumably there was a big boat leaving Holyhead shortly after arrival. 

I am lucky with my 1983 timetable, it looks like 1D43 didn't stipulate Aircon stock. It turned up then with a 40 and rake of Mk1s. I may be able to get away with one rake of Mk2f coaches, and my spare scratch rake of 4 Scotish Mk3, a spare Mk2f, Mk1 BG and Buffet in case I ever need two aircon rakes.  My Trans-Pennine rake is still a bit light, need a couple more SO when I can find them.

[tractionman]

7 hours ago, 61656 said:

They are 8mm wooden dowel on top of 20mm dowel bases. Just things I had spare that looked like various photos I’d been looking at. They have been painted in two coats of Dulux Trade cannonball*.
 

I’m fortunate in having a spares collection that is disproportionate to any projects I’ve actually completed. 

*Somewhere there is a person whose job it is to name paint colours. As far as I can tell this must involve drinking until you think up a better term for ‘almost indistinguishable from black’. 

 

That's great, many thanks--it's a good way of handling a skew bridge which is what I am faced with too, I do like an arched skew bridge but the geometry baffles me (I remember seeing a template somewhere?) but the girder bridge looks very effective too, and your solution looks the part.

 

all the best,

 

Keith

[61656]

45 minutes ago, tractionman said:

 

That's great, many thanks--it's a good way of handling a skew bridge which is what I am faced with too, I do like an arched skew bridge but the geometry baffles me (I remember seeing a template somewhere?) but the girder bridge looks very effective too, and your solution looks the part.

 

all the best,

 

Keith

It’s possibly not the final bridge, but I like to get the layout to a stage with basic scenery everywhere and then do things in detail. Otherwise you end up with one amazing section and the rest baseboard.

 

Hopefully with some weathering this will look quite presentable. I’ve used the wood former then brick plasticard and simple metal girder before because I find it quick and easy. It’s also quite in keeping with West of the Pennines architecture. The girder is just 0.5mm plasticard, with a 4mm strip as border and 2mm verticals. 

[5BarVT]

9 hours ago, 61656 said:

max load 455 tonnes (15 mk2s?),

I thought timing loads were based on 35 tons (30 tons of coach and 5 tons ~64 people) so 13 coaches. 
Paul.

[5BarVT]

30 minutes ago, 61656 said:

I like to get the layout to a stage with basic scenery everywhere and then do things in detail. Otherwise you end up with one amazing section and the rest baseboard.

Must remember that when I get to such a stage.  A good approach.

Paul.

[coronach]

On 21/11/2022 at 22:51, 61656 said:

Some more progress with platforms and bridges. 
 

At the station all the platforms have been filled. Once fully cured I’ll sand them back, paint them and think about coping stones. At the moment they look distinctly festive!

 

 

But a lower angle shot looks half decent.  To the left of the 20’s is a bit of vertical plywood with a screw in it. This will be a staircase entrance to the station, similar to coming up from the Dark Arches bus stops in Leeds. 

 

At the West end I’ve started to sort out my canal bridges and tunnels, which are loosely based on those around Manchester Oxford Road to Deansgate. 
 

A 25 pauses on the Chester canal bridge. The canal angles sharp left here into the basin to the top left of the shot. 

 

 

From further out we see the 20’s passing over the Warrington lines canal bridge, with the third and fourth tanks over the road bridge through to the basin and mill. You can only just see but there’s now 100mm extra scenic section in front of what will be the brick viaduct. 

 

 

Finally a 45/0 brings in a ‘liner from the coast, with the new road visible on the right. 

 

The low angle shot of the class 20 showing the complex trackwork is brilliant.  Very evocative of a station approach.

[61656]

32 minutes ago, 5BarVT said:

Must remember that when I get to such a stage.  A good approach.

Paul.

Model railways are just a well disguised nervous breakdown waiting to happen. You look at RMWeb at a layout built by 6 retired people working on it full time and wonder why your 30 minutes a week isn’t achieving the same results!

[61656]

9 hours ago, EuroMST said:

I am lucky with my 1983 timetable, it looks like 1D43 didn't stipulate Aircon stock. It turned up then with a 40 and rake of Mk1s. I may be able to get away with one rake of Mk2f coaches, and my spare scratch rake of 4 Scotish Mk3, a spare Mk2f, Mk1 BG and Buffet in case I ever need two aircon rakes.  My Trans-Pennine rake is still a bit light, need a couple more SO when I can find them.

Here’s a photo I found on Flickr. 
 

 

It implies the 47 and mk1s are in addition to 1D42 and 1D43…

 

My own passenger stock is loosely as follows:

IC1 mk2fs, BG, RBR, 1 mk2a

IC2 mk2as, RBR

TP1 mk2as, BG

TP2 mk2as, 1xmk1 SO, BG

Relief mk1s

SemiFast mk1s

 

With the through fiddle yard roads I can just about cover all services (up until 13.30 at least, I still haven’t got past there yet). 

 

 

[61656]

4 hours ago, coronach said:

The low angle shot of the class 20 showing the complex trackwork is brilliant.  Very evocative of a station approach.

I have tried a similar shot in the other direction. There’s quite a bit of work required to make it convincing - warehouse in canal basin to hide overbridge to backscene join, retaining wall continuation along Warrington lines,  arches on incoming lines. 

 

Oh, and a peak with some mk2’s clanking across the pointwork!
 

Edited November 24, 2022 by 61656
Correction

[61656]

4 hours ago, coronach said:

The low angle shot of the class 20 showing the complex trackwork is brilliant.  Very evocative of a station approach.

I should also have said Thanks! I have the table manners of a spoilt teenager.

[coronach]

On 24/11/2022 at 12:39, 61656 said:

I have tried a similar shot in the other direction. There’s quite a bit of work required to make it convincing - warehouse in canal basin to hide overbridge to backscene join, retaining wall continuation along Warrington lines,  arches on incoming lines. 

 

Oh, and a peak with some mk2’s clanking across the pointwork!
 

The good quality trackwork helps

[61656]

Metcalfe Supermax…

 

The Metcalfe models are both very effective and satisfying to build. They definitely fit with my philosophy of quickly getting some background scenery in place. I can always replace them later when I get my “build an 8 storey warehouse from scratch” skills. I believe you receive this around retirement as a sort of reverse puberty. 
 

For the canal wharf I need something taller than the standard kit, so I’m splicing two kits into one. It’s fairly straightforward although there’s a little bit of thought required to keep the proportions right. 
 

The first section (of 3) is built and who could resist trying it out? I need to play around with the final configuration and come up with a cunning plan for the scenic link to the roadbridge. 

 

 

I also cut out a 70’ x 7’ canal boat template to put in place for those viewers who are overflowing with curiosity! It just about fits, and promises to give countless future holiday makers something to argue about as the person on the tiller misjudges the angle…

 

 

[5BarVT]

19 minutes ago, 61656 said:

for those viewers who are overflowing with curiosity!

You rang!

Yep looks good.  Enough room to get it right IF you know what you’re doing.  I refer to your post for if not!

Paul.

[ISW]

On 02/12/2022 at 23:29, 61656 said:

The Metcalfe models are both very effective and satisfying to build. They definitely fit with my philosophy of quickly getting some background scenery in place. I can always replace them later when I get my “build an 8 storey warehouse from scratch” skills. I believe you receive this around retirement as a sort of reverse puberty. 

I'm definitely in reverse.

 

First, I built some simple downloaded buildings from t'internet but quickly moved on to designing (aka cloning commercially available kits - to get the scale / proportions right) and building them from cardboard. They just sit on a windowshelf as they have nothing to do with my layout. They were made a few years before, but were great practice.

 

Now I've moved on to designing and making my own 'bespoke' buildings for the layout, which I'm in the process of building. And then, recently, I've bought some Metcalfe buildings (which are yet to be opened) that I plan to use as the basis for my brewery buildings. My idea is to create additional, bespoke, building 'based' on the Metcalfe ones to expand the building complexes. I'm sure I can create the same textures and use the same sizes / proportions.

 

Ian

[61656]

51 minutes ago, ISW said:

I'm definitely in reverse.

 

First, I built some simple downloaded buildings from t'internet but quickly moved on to designing (aka cloning commercially available kits - to get the scale / proportions right) and building them from cardboard. They just sit on a windowshelf as they have nothing to do with my layout. They were made a few years before, but were great practice.

 

Now I've moved on to designing and making my own 'bespoke' buildings for the layout, which I'm in the process of building. And then, recently, I've bought some Metcalfe buildings (which are yet to be opened) that I plan to use as the basis for my brewery buildings. My idea is to create additional, bespoke, building 'based' on the Metcalfe ones to expand the building complexes. I'm sure I can create the same textures and use the same sizes / proportions.

 

Ian

The Metcalfe range do give you a lot of options and they are great for modification. Not to expensive if you make a mess of it either!

 

They are increasingly common on layouts, so you do need to think about how you use them. Ultimately a Peak and mk2s look a lot better in front of a Metcalfe warehouse than a big space where you may one day get around to building one!

 

I do like your scratch built stuff. There’s some of that ahead for the station at Christleton, as I’ve realised I need the canopies in before the OHL and I need the wires in before the signals…

[61656]

Some more progress on the Metcalfe mega mill! The two ‘tower block’ elements were relatively straightforward once I’d worked out the cut lines. Slightly trickier was the central section which I realised didn’t have to be flat as I had a roof section spare. I made it a little lower to add some interest. 
 

 

There’s definitely something in the old advice to build high to add to a model railway. With the warehouse in its final position I used one of the bridge sections to create a pedestrian entrance to the road bridge, which nicely hides the road into backscene problem. I used some plasticard off cuts to create a simple gatehouse.
 

 

Overall it’s helped make the West end scenic entrance a bit more acceptable as a background. Nice to see a peak on a trans-pennine service overtaking an 03 shunting parcels. There’s some retaining wall work to extend towards the Warrington exit and then it’s time to look at the viaduct arches. 

 

 

 

I think the overall scene needs a building in between the two sets of buildings, possibly just painted on the backscene. 
 

Edited December 10, 2022 by 61656
Duplicate photos

[mallaig1983]

That’s got quite a presence to it hasn’t it? Nice job on the build and it really brings something to the layout. 

[5BarVT]

That’s a very neat solution to the bridge to backscene join.  Common in Edinburgh, reminds me of the Railway Institute in York, and closer to Christleton, the old warehouse by the canal on City Road in Chester with entrances at canal level and road level.

Paul.

[61656]

4 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

That’s a very neat solution to the bridge to backscene join.  Common in Edinburgh, reminds me of the Railway Institute in York, and closer to Christleton, the old warehouse by the canal on City Road in Chester with entrances at canal level and road level.

Paul.

Thanks Paul. I spent a bit of time pondering that join because it was very awkward looking. Once I dropped the bridge in for a trial fit I knew it would works. I tried to find a prototype photo, but it’s not an easy thing to search for!

 

Andy