Christleton Junction - 1986 - Gateway to North Wales

[St Enodoc]

8 hours ago, BenW said:

Wow, that's fantastic.  For me that just makes running trains more purposeful and adds so much to the sense of realism - do you also run it with a scale clock, or are the timings stated more indicative?

We don't use a clock, whether real time or scale time - it's just a sequence. The times (and the origin/destination points for trains to and from the "Paddington" and "Penzance" storage loops) are purely to add context and interest.

[P.C.M]

I have been writing a timetable for llanbourne for years. I keep changing things about so it hasn't made it a past  scribbles in an old book. I have a loco roster too with each diagram written on a white board. Each time I run to a timetable I write in the loco numbers for each diagram ie  diagram 45101 worked by 45150 etc.

I am not sure if mentioned before but two books I find very useful are pictured below.

Cheers Peter.

[61656]

28 minutes ago, P.C.M said:

I have been writing a timetable for llanbourne for years. I keep changing things about so it hasn't made it a past  scribbles in an old book. I have a loco roster too with each diagram written on a white board. Each time I run to a timetable I write in the loco numbers for each diagram ie  diagram 45101 worked by 45150 etc.

I am not sure if mentioned before but two books I find very useful are pictured below.

Cheers Peter.

That’s proper 1980’s. I really like the whiteboard loco roster - obviously a blackboard would be great, but a bit dusty.

 

6 peak turns and 10 47s makes me feel a lot better about my desire for more locos!

 

I have the North & Mid Wales book, but not the Freight only (yet). I’ve recently been gifted a copy of Sulzers in North Wales, which is really excellent and highly recommended. 

[P.C.M]

21 hours ago, 61656 said:

That’s proper 1980’s. I really like the whiteboard loco roster - obviously a blackboard would be great, but a bit dusty.

 

6 peak turns and 10 47s makes me feel a lot better about my desire for more locos!

 

I have the North & Mid Wales book, but not the Freight only (yet). I’ve recently been gifted a copy of Sulzers in North Wales, which is really excellent and highly recommended. 

I will look out for that book.

The bottom 45 and 47 turns are SO jobs and I hardly run the Saturday timetable due to lack of freight. The 37 turn didn't exist during.my time period but there was one by 89. The freight only book has some useful freight times so will give you some idea on ballast workings etc.

 

Cheers Peter.

[61656]

In the first of tonight’s updates, I’ve finally stopped putting off making the next side of the BR office block. I’m quite pleased with it as my first real attempt at scratch building something. It needs some fettling to get it to fit in, but I’m pleased to have completed the 132 window uprights. 
 

I can now turn my attention to the retaining wall that will be in front of it, running along the back of platform 4. This wall will angle back alongside the office block and include the staff entrance to the depot. 
 

 

I’ve also fitted another floodlight in the depot and wired it up. I only have the DMUs with coach lights, but nevertheless managed a little night shot. The lights are very atmospheric for just a couple of yard lamps. It’ll be quite a while before there are any more though!
 

[61656]

Also over the weekend, these 1986 working timetables have arrived. They are an absolutely fascinating read. 
 

I think I’ll try to combine the freight and passenger into a timetable for Christleton, adding the services I’ve imagined in as the station is a loop off the West Coast mainline. 
 

There are more loco hauled passenger services than I expected, a lot more parcels and a staggering number of light engine moves (although they may not all have happened). 
 

I’m looking forward to having a good look at the freight timetable and working out what should be passing through and what should be reversing.
 

 

 

[5BarVT]

9 minutes ago, 61656 said:

Also over the weekend, these 1986 working timetables have arrived. They are an absolutely fascinating read. 
 

I think I’ll try to combine the freight and passenger into a timetable for Christleton, adding the services I’ve imagined in as the station is a loop off the West Coast mainline. 
 

There are more loco hauled passenger services than I expected, a lot more parcels and a staggering number of light engine moves (although they may not all have happened). 
 

I’m looking forward to having a good look at the freight timetable and working out what should be passing through and what should be reversing.

Bin there, done that.  You do have plenty of spare time don’t you?

 

It is great fun, but can take you down lots of rabbit holes.  It’s a bit of a ‘don’t feel like constructing’ excuse for me!

 

Paul.

[G-DIMB]

This is a part i love about model railways is the operational side and timetables. Sadly i don't have a layout big enough for this at the moment but Ive written up numerous timetables for layouts as i think it sometimes provides more of a challenge to operate it correctly. Also means the stock gets a fair crack at running rather than just the same stuff. Having the working timetables is also a godsend!

[61656]

9 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

Bin there, done that.  You do have plenty of spare time don’t you?

 

Paul.

It would be more accurate to say I don’t sit down a lot. 

[St Enodoc]

5 minutes ago, 61656 said:

It would be more accurate to say I don’t sit down a lot. 

You can get a cream for that.

[61656]

The light in the morning always seems to be a bit better for taking photos, so with the commute still being measured in seconds, I managed a quick look in before facing the traffic on the stairs. 

 

This being a proper BR office, there should be a handful of staff in the top floor canteen enjoying a cooked breakfast. 
 

 

 

 

 

[61656]

I’ve been looking through the working timetables, and I’ve made some interesting observations:

 

1. Most turns are clearly loco hauled (e.g. D335, meaning class 47 with 335 tonnes) or DMU, but a number are just D1-4, which are references to a sectional appendix that I don’t (yet) have. There are class 1,2 and 3 trains in that category, so some more research to get stuck in to. 
 

2. The freightliner workings are clearly based on ships docking at Holyhead. You get 4 northbound and then 4 southbound. I need to think how to work this, as my Holyhead fiddle yard doesn’t have a through road. (I have neither space nor budget for 4 freightliner sets!). 
 

3. The Stanlow tanks are nearly all southbound only; it appears the northbound workings all went via Shrewsbury. 
 

4. The Speedlink services are unbalanced. There only appears to be a southbound to Severn Tunnel for example, with nothing in reverse.
 

5. There are a lot more loco hauled Euston services than I’d expected (although I haven’t filtered the exceptions yet). 

[5BarVT]

D1-4 (there was a D5 too) are the LM way of describing the number of powered cars to select the point to point timings used for DMU services.  I’ll need to find the SA to give a full account but, in principle, you have single car (100% powered), three car (67%) and 2/4 car (50%).  The extra two were high density and trans pennine.

Paul.

[5BarVT]

Been into my LM South 1980 Appendix.  It looks more complicated as a table, but essentially it's a powered to unpowered ratio (or better).

D1 = 1 in 2 (i.e. 2/4 car units)

D1(T) = D1 with trailing load

D2 = 2 in 3 (i.e. 3 car units)

D3 = all powered (i.e. single units)

D4 High Density 2/4 car

D5 Trans Pennine 6 car units.

 

Apologies for the antipodean presentation - it's not an iPad issue it's the scanner!

Paul.

[61656]

That’s great - although somewhat disappointing to find out that they are all units!

 

I’m now going to scour the WTTs for any trailing loads.

[61656]

That’s easier on the eyes - and doesn’t stay upside down when I rotate my tablet!

 

[61656]

The first part of my re-draft of the 1986 working timetables is to correct the map at the front, so that we all know what we're talking about.

 

The section around Chester was incorrect, so that's been updated. I'm not sure if the names of General Central and General Wrexham are correct, but I've let them stand.

 

I spent a long time choosing this location, to allow the potential of an electrified West Coast diversionary route to meet with a Trans-Pennine to North Wales route. It took quite a while to get my head around the geography and I'm still not sure I have it correct!

 

The line from Christleton to Crewe is clear (and is real, Christleton is a small village on the East of Chester, right where my fictitious  junction is); that line becomes electrified in my world.  The line going to Frodsham has been altered so that it is a East to North connection instead of a West to North connection; this means trains have to reverse at Christleton and also provides the West Coast loop. So the line up to Frodsham and on to Warrington is also electrified. This is the route of the North East bound Trans-Pennine services via Warrington, Newton Le Willows and Manchester Victoria.

 

The divergence East at Mickle Trafford junction (to section CM) takes a route up to Altrincham and I assume in 1986 into Manchester Oxford Road and the through platforms at Piccadilly. I say assume because my Quail Map shows the Altrincham to Oxford Road section as now being Metrolink. I'm sure someone will be able to correct me on this. Class 304s used to run from Manchester as far as Altrincham, so in my fictional world the wires could be extended through Northwich allowing an EMU commuter service into Christleton.

 

I assume in the late 80's when the TP services switched to Piccadilly, that they took the right hand turn to continue using the Newton Le Willows and Warrington route to Chester, rather than Altrincham and Northwich. I only did the route once loco hauled and I was 13 at the time!

 

 

[St Enodoc]

The Wrexham arrangement looks right. By the time of your model the platforms on the Bidston line, previously Wrexham Exchange, had been incorporated into the ex-GWR Wrexham General station on the Chester- Shrewsbury line.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrexham_General_railway_station

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrexham_Central_railway_station

Edited May 26, 2021 by St Enodoc

[61656]

22 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

The Wrexham arrangement looks right. By the time of your model the platforms on the Bidston line, previously Wrexham Exchange, had been incorporated into the ex-GWR Wrexham General station on the Chester- Shrewsbury line.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrexham_General_railway_station

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrexham_Central_railway_station

I was happy with the track diagram - it's the names that don't seem right. Surely it wasn't referred to as General Central? It sounds like a cartoon character!

[St Enodoc]

3 minutes ago, 61656 said:

I was happy with the track diagram - it's the names that don't seem right. Surely it wasn't referred to as General Central? It sounds like a cartoon character!

No - they're all WREXHAM with General and Central shown separately and with General in two parts, the ex-GWR and ex-GCR (Exchange) platforms, hence the apparent duplication.

[61656]

1 hour ago, St Enodoc said:

No - they're all WREXHAM with General and Central shown separately and with General in two parts, the ex-GWR and ex-GCR (Exchange) platforms, hence the apparent duplication.

Here’s the originals. Freight blue and Passenger red. Interesting to see that they are different. Looking at the two maps suggests the designer only had a rudimentary knowledge of Wrexham!

 

 

[mallaig1983]

That’s interesting. Nice bit of original material you’ve got your hands on there.

[G-DIMB]

I admire the extent you are going to. As i only have a diesel depot there isn't much point for me but if had something like you i know i would be doing the same thing as i find the operational side a great interest.

 

In terms of the questions posed above, some services didn't appear in the working timetables for some bizarre reason hence the updates or they were combined into one flow and split up hence they could get hidden in other workings. Its really all some kind of dark art which i don't think anyone has really fully understood.

 

Keep it up as its one of the two layouts on rmweb that provide inspiration for my own project.

[St Enodoc]

2 hours ago, G-DIMB said:

I admire the extent you are going to. As i only have a diesel depot there isn't much point for me but if had something like you i know i would be doing the same thing as i find the operational side a great interest.

 

In terms of the questions posed above, some services didn't appear in the working timetables for some bizarre reason hence the updates or they were combined into one flow and split up hence they could get hidden in other workings. Its really all some kind of dark art which i don't think anyone has really fully understood.

 

Keep it up as its one of the two layouts on rmweb that provide inspiration for my own project.

Do tell!

[G-DIMB]

8 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Do tell!

Its this and Llanbourne. For someone modelling somewhere on the North Wales coast in the period 1985-1987 they are the perfect examples from which to take inspiration. Ive done other projects over the years where i have taken inspiration from other layouts it just it varies from project to project.