46256 Posted March 20, 2020 Author Share Posted March 20, 2020 And I thought loco valve gear was tricky....photo of the gantry all cranks connected to the respective signal arms thought I would photo now as all this will be hidden in due course 3 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
46256 Posted March 26, 2020 Author Share Posted March 26, 2020 Signal gantry now in final stages all cranks fitted and working...all the signal arms in place and working painted...lamps and ladders added earlier. Just main ladder and rail guard around the upper walkway to add. I will photo in due course. I would really appreciate an explanation of the gantry and what lines it controlled ( signal engineer can you enlighten me please ) . 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
46256 Posted March 27, 2020 Author Share Posted March 27, 2020 I have just shared these better images from my archive with Eric ( signal engineer) . He is kindly studying them and ( hopefully) my finished model a sincere thank you to him 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowanj Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 (edited) Brian. i'll be interested to see what you get as a response. On the top photo, the train is obviously being held at the home/distant. The 2 LH clear home signals- do these indicate a clear path into a LH junction a few yards beyond? On the lower photo, the 4F is going to turn right, having been cleared by the RH (as the driver looks" splitting distant. The 2 lower signals aren't clear to me - they look like home signals but I cant see which direction they protect -up or down. Do they protect that 3-way point and act a stop signal for either a LH or RH turn? So they are currently showing a clear road to go straight ahead? Just guessing, really, but it keeps the little grey cells ticking over. Ironically, I was looking at some photos of my layout location, and noticed that what I thought was a standard home /distant signal ,which I built. actually had a small shunting arm at mid mast, Something else to put right at some stage. I have no idea what it's function was. Edited March 27, 2020 by rowanj 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cb900f Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 I'll have a go too . Top photo The far left home board is cleared for the goods , 2nd from left is cleared for the main and the train is right away for brum. 3rd is for the Sutton branch and Walsall. 2nd photo. The 4f is on the main and heading for Whitacre, the distant under the home would have been cleared instead if it was taking the Kingsbury new line. The next 2 home boards are for the goods and would either take you to Whitacre (higher( or Kingsbury new line (lower). The last 2 home boards far right take you to Whitacre (lower) or Kingsbury new line (higher). Is this a relief road that the loco is stood on ? Pete 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
46256 Posted March 27, 2020 Author Share Posted March 27, 2020 Thank you both and to Eric for his reply on a PM . i do love semaphore signals the clunk and twitch of the wires when activated. on a sombre note just had an e mail from SVR requesting financial help over this difficult time. Best wishes and stay safe Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
46256 Posted March 27, 2020 Author Share Posted March 27, 2020 In situ but not quite finished still main ladder, handrail around top deck and supporting wires to add. The west jct yards shunter 43284 tests it for clearance en route to the station good yard 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
46256 Posted March 27, 2020 Author Share Posted March 27, 2020 Just turned to my left whilst sitting at my modelling desk...the sun through my loft window gave me this view...kitmaster single on box GBL compound on Water Orton sign and the spinner on Coleshill. It cheered me up....hopefully you as well 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted March 27, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 27, 2020 Explanation of the signals. Top picture was taken just before Saltley PSB commissioning, so it has lost some moves. When the curve towards Walsall was singled in 1969 the Goods to Main crossing was moved back towards the station and a facing crossing put between the Down and Up Mains in place of the original junction. Arms L to R before the remodelling (Bottom picture) were Down Goods. Down Goods to Down Main, Down Goods to Walsall, Down Main, Down Main to Walsall. The lower picture is interesting. Took a bit of thinking about as I'm talking from memory of about 52 years ago. It is taken from Water Orton Sidings box, which was renewed as a Type 15 in the 1950s. The box only signalled the Up Goods and the sidings, it had nothing to do with the main lines which is where the Duck Six is running. The top arm of the second doll was IIRC the Up Starting signal for the West Junction box and the Distant arms were for the East Junction box. As said above the road is set towards Whitacre at the East Junction. There is no exit to the Up Main at this location. The points in advance of the signal form a scissors crossover between the Up Goods and the road next to it, the name of which I can't remember but it didn't have any Block working.The tow lower dolls read through the scissors and the other two are for the straight roads. It's quite rare to find any pictures of either the West Junction or Sidings boxes as these could only be reached by walking along the track. 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
46256 Posted March 28, 2020 Author Share Posted March 28, 2020 (edited) Gantry finished ladders and guard rails added...optics...glue and glaze coloured by felt tip....lastly distant signal removed as added later than my chosen early sixties time period...ex Lms shunter 12061 now on shunting duties class 44 Peak D5 passes with yet another freight...gantry sitting a little precariously on the edge....prompting me to add an extra scenic piece here! Edited March 28, 2020 by 46256 4 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
46256 Posted March 29, 2020 Author Share Posted March 29, 2020 Signal engineer and I have been in correspondence concerning the signalling at Water Orton. He rightly mentions how few photos exist of the yards west jct and the signal boxes there. The first two are of the BR replacement sidings box the third is the only one I've ever seen of its Midland original...you can just make it out under the furthest gantry and lastly 46256 passing West box taking the jct to Sutton Park...photos MA King Dave Underwood and Vic Smith and LNWR society via Warwickshire railways... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
46256 Posted March 29, 2020 Author Share Posted March 29, 2020 Just scanned from my album both by Vic Smith when a signalman st west box...the only photo I've seen of the junction from Walsall.....and talk about 8f superpower...8f and WD!....8f with snowplough.....from up north no doubt 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted March 29, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 29, 2020 (edited) Interesting shots. I've been trying to work out where the old sidings box was located. Perhaps between the new box and the lamp hut? The train coming off the branch looks like a Sunday diversion of the 'Dead Meat' from Holyhead to London. I think it may actually have run to Broad Street. Edited March 29, 2020 by TheSignalEngineer 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
46256 Posted March 30, 2020 Author Share Posted March 30, 2020 (edited) Good morning Eric pardon my ignorance , looking at the meat container black five photo.....what was the purpose of the post to the left ...the one in front of the telegraph pole and the crossover from the yards..with its small signal arms? I study these and my other photos of the area and never fail to notice something. It's amazing how many structures there were in the yards......even across the line below Park Hall woods ...the various huts.....the one with the cross beams....the substantial brick one by west box....the shot of the yards towards the station....its clearly taken from a high vantage point...from a signal? I can't think of any other high structure at that location...it's also clear that the little sidings on the goods branch...think they were referred to as the engineers sidings were often used. So much information thank goodness these photos were taken best wishes Brian Edited March 30, 2020 by 46256 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowanj Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 13 hours ago, TheSignalEngineer said: Interesting shots. I've been trying to work out where the old sidings box was located. Perhaps between the new box and the lamp hut? The train coming off the branch looks like a Sunday diversion of the 'Dead Meat' from Holyhead to London. I think it may actually have run to Broad Street. I know Broad Street Station was closed on Sundays. Was the goods yard still open? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted March 30, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 30, 2020 3 hours ago, rowanj said: I know Broad Street Station was closed on Sundays. Was the goods yard still open? I think it may have been open for the night shift as it was a big place for receiving market traffic for Smithfield, Billingsgate and Covent Garden originating on the ex-LNWR lines. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowanj Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 I remember as a 13 or 14 y.o wandering into Broad Street Station. I used to visit Uncle and Aunt for the 2-week Easter holiday, and, unimaginably nowadays, was allowed to get the train from Thames Ditton to Waterloo and then use the tube to go train-spotting at London termini. The only time I was a bit apprehensive was walking into a completely deserted Broad Street on what must have been a Sunday. Really eerie, and I remember rushing to the more populated Liverpool Street next door. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted March 30, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 30, 2020 7 hours ago, 46256 said: .the shot of the yards towards the station....its clearly taken from a high vantage point...from a signal? I think that is taken from the field where the Scout Hut stands before the trees on the bank were allowed to grow. 7 hours ago, 46256 said: It's amazing how many structures there were in the yards......even across the line below Park Hall woods ...the various huts.....the one with the cross beams....the substantial brick one by west box.. There were a couple of what I think were air raid shelters put in the yard c1939. They were the above ground brick type. The yard would have been a prime target as it sat almost directly on a line between Hams Hall power station and the Spitfire factory at Castle Bromwich. 8 hours ago, 46256 said: what was the purpose of the post to the left ...the one in front of the telegraph pole and the crossover from the yards..with its small signal arms? A tall shunt signal. Up in the air so the arms could be seen from a loco backing into the yard. I don't have a detailed track diagram but my guess would be that the top arm read to the reception sidings, bottom arm to the Up Goods and the middle arm to the line between the Goods and sidings. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
46256 Posted March 30, 2020 Author Share Posted March 30, 2020 We used to walk up to the bomb craters on the flood plain by the rail bridge over the tame just below Hams Hall. We could squeeze up a small opening at the side wall of the bridge which meant your head was literally feet from the up track. The sensation as a class 45 on express went past had to be felt to be believed......the folly of youth....and a slimmer physique .. as to the Luftwaffe I think I've already mentioned they tried to get my mum on two occasions a front gunner shooting at her as she walked to the village school, secondly blowing up next door killing the two neighbours...mum and my aunt escaped unhurt...again the Nazis didn't appreciate who they were messing with ....upset mum and lose the war...which they did ! Broad st...visited there on a spotting trip to the smoke ...quickly left like you John to explore Liverpool street 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
46256 Posted March 30, 2020 Author Share Posted March 30, 2020 (edited) Eric the shot of the 8f on the down goods with the sidings box...Dave photo absolutely used to gain access to the embankment myself at the rear of the scout hut. It's the older photo looking towards the gantry and the old midland box.....that's got to be in the yards themselves Edited March 30, 2020 by 46256 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted March 30, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 30, 2020 18 minutes ago, 46256 said: Eric the shot of the 8f on the down goods with the sidings box...Dave photo absolutely used to gain access to the embankment myself at the rear of the scout hut. It's the older photo looking towards the gantry and the old midland box.....that's got to be in the yards themselves I've always wondered how that shot was taken. If you look at the picture taken from the Sidings box looking west there's something like a tank tower on top of a building in roughly the right place. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted March 30, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 30, 2020 37 minutes ago, 46256 said: as to the Luftwaffe I think I've already mentioned they tried to get my mum on two occasions a front gunner shooting at her as she walked to the village school, secondly blowing up next door killing the two neighbours...mum and my aunt escaped unhurt...again the Nazis didn't appreciate who they were messing with ....upset mum and lose the war...which they did ! The house where my Mom and Grandparents lived in Birmingham was totally destroyed in 1940. Good job they persuaded my Gran to go to the shelter, she was stone deaf and couldn't hear the sirens. When she felt the vibration of bombs landing she usually retreated under the stairs. When they saw the pile of rubble they set off for Great Gran's house but she met them coming the other way as there was a UXB in the back yard. Mom wouldn't go to the reception centre they were sent to as she didn't like it so they all walked to her other Grandparents in King's Heath. When she came back to work next morning the hall had taken a direct hit in the second wave and all the people inside were killed. Later she joined the ATS, reporting in the same week to the same place as Princess Elizabeth to get kitted out. She wasn't too pleased as she wanted to go on the transport training but HM could drive and Mom was top grade at shorthand so that was how they were placed. While she was there the camp was bombed but she escaped again. No wonder she was a tough cookie. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
46256 Posted March 31, 2020 Author Share Posted March 31, 2020 (edited) Eric the sort of view I saw from the embankment at rear of scout hut...a great view across the yards...08 in attendance. In respect of the vantage point for the earlier photo...yes that tower fits the bill. The photo below shows in the foreground what I believe were referred to as the engineers sidings a run around line on the station goods branch Edited March 31, 2020 by 46256 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
46256 Posted April 4, 2020 Author Share Posted April 4, 2020 Restarted work on an old project...converting the GBL Ivatt 262t to its BR 84xx variant. My good friend rowanj completed his some time ago . I started mine at roughly the same time but more appropriate locos needed my attention . I have the book of drawings by Bradford Barton std locos. Iin addition some photos....not that well photographed it seems.. The differences are quite apparent on studying the two locos. I was going to attempt all the pipe work on top of the firebox but instead opted for the comet kit for he std locos. It arrived yesterday ...great quality as ever. I scratch built the frames and it was a freewheeling 060 chassis when I abandoned it. I was working on this last night improving it to my current standards. I am going to put my usual high level motor gears in this. Chris has sent me his larger can motor than my usual 1219. I was going to put it in a 264t but opted for the 84xx. Chris rang me prior to sending and spoke of how impressed he was with this new motor he had sourced. That was good enough for me already highly impressed with the 1219. in respect of the loco body...new slimmer chimney added ....dome slightly rounded.....top injector on boiler removed and resulting hole filled. The gap in front running plate filled with plasticard....still the pipe work to add...patch painting as not to require re lining out...already renumbered to 84029 a Leicester midland loco in 1963.... Will photo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowanj Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 Hi Brian. This was a nice conversion, easy enough, but there was more to do than I expected to make all the necessary changes to get to the BR version. I must dig mine out and give it a run. John 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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