SUNDERLAND NORTH DOCK, BANK TOP YARD AND SHED

[RBAGE]

Anybody want to buy a Sunderland season ticket ?

Ha'way the lads.

[Porcy Mane]

Anybody want to buy a Sunderland season ticket ?

 It's early daze.

[tom shaw]

It's been a while since I posted last but I've been busy.

 

With my usual inability to finish something before starting something else I’ve been busy on the fiddle yard. I had started work on it for the last layout and some thought went into its design as I wanted the ability to run reasonable length trains (up to 7 coaches) within the constraints of the layout length (4.6m) so I couldn’t afford to have points. It was either some form of moving table or a cassette system and I settled on a turntable. It isn’t intended for the table to turn all the way around but just to give most tracks on the table access to most tracks entering and leaving. The drawings below show the turntable at its two extremes as well as the layout as a whole and its location in the garage. Note the brick pillar which would have hindered a traverser but does not affect the rotating action of the turntable. The table in its central position has an entry and an exit line which line up and provide a continuous run for running in purposes but usual operation will not require continuous running. The trick is that each track coming on to the table initially heads for the pivot point before straightening out, within minimum radius limits. Need to work out some sort of barrier so I don’t drive trains off the end.

 

 

 

The following photos show the state of play so far

 

 

Coal trains will operate as follows:
1.    A full train leaves the table on the up main and arrives in the up yard
2.    The train engine detaches, runs round and picks up its van.
3.    The engine either, picks up an empty train from the down yard, goes on shed or leaves with its van via the down main to its next duty elsewhere.
4.    A J72 or 350 diesel then propels the full set to the staiths off layout and back on to the table.
5.    The shunter then detaches, leaves the full set on the table and picks up an empty set to bring back into the down yard.
6.    An engine and van is attached to the full set on the table and it’s ready to start again.
7.    An engine and van are attached to the empty set in the down yard and it’s ready to leave.

There is currently enough 21 ton hoppers to have three rakes (two full and one empty) and I see the above cycle continuously worked by one operator with other trains and the shed worked by up to two other operators.

Other trains will comprise general goods, fish, oil, steel, etc. and will be worked into the yard from the up main. In the yard trains will be sorted into short trip freights for the various locations with each being worked down the quayside branch with returns coming the other way.

 

I would like to operate goods trains using a wagon card system with pockets for each destination, I believe this works by each wagon having a card with various destinations on it and they are worked through in turn but I need to find out more about it. Can anyone point me at some guidance ?

 

Regards,

Tom

[Tangoman69]

Tom,

 

That looks mighty impressive and an engenious way to give flexibility in the fiddle yard.

What software did you use to create you plan?

 

I have benn given 'permission' from SHMBO to build a log cabin 4.5M x 3.5M in size. I have a rough plan in my head, but want to finalise it pretty soon.

 

Regards,

 

Karl

[danstercivicman]

That's incredible! 

[ianblenk]

Hi Tom,

 Great work! I like your operating sequence. For Tynebank, I was thinking about mineral leading and didn't want the same set sequence throughout and so got to thinking about having three or four mineral leading scenarios, which could be chosen at random, for that day.

Each would depend upon whether colliers ready to load, (gas or power coal?) coal available at the pits and  from which way this would arrive etc.

Control would have to route the fulls and empties around the existing WTT. Also ensure there are sufficient locos rostered for the trips, an idea of the time to run from pit to staiths would also add to the operating fun.

 I am making slow progress and now have all the turnout tortoises in place, next step is the big wire up!

I'm hoping to make Newcastle Show next month probably on the Saturday.

 

Cheers

 

Ian B

[North Eastern]

It's been a while since I posted last but I've been busy.

 

With my usual inability to finish something before starting something else I’ve been busy on the fiddle yard. I had started work on it for the last layout and some thought went into its design as I wanted the ability to run reasonable length trains (up to 7 coaches) within the constraints of the layout length (4.6m) so I couldn’t afford to have points. It was either some form of moving table or a cassette system and I settled on a turntable. It isn’t intended for the table to turn all the way around but just to give most tracks on the table access to most tracks entering and leaving. The drawings below show the turntable at its two extremes as well as the layout as a whole and its location in the garage. Note the brick pillar which would have hindered a traverser but does not affect the rotating action of the turntable. The table in its central position has an entry and an exit line which line up and provide a continuous run for running in purposes but usual operation will not require continuous running. The trick is that each track coming on to the table initially heads for the pivot point before straightening out, within minimum radius limits. Need to work out some sort of barrier so I don’t drive trains off the end.

 

tt1.jpg

 

tt2.jpg

 

The following photos show the state of play so far

20161010_202833r.jpg

 

20161010_202907r.jpg

 

Coal trains will operate as follows:

1.    A full train leaves the table on the up main and arrives in the up yard

2.    The train engine detaches, runs round and picks up its van.

3.    The engine either, picks up an empty train from the down yard, goes on shed or leaves with its van via the down main to its next duty elsewhere.

4.    A J72 or 350 diesel then propels the full set to the staiths off layout and back on to the table.

5.    The shunter then detaches, leaves the full set on the table and picks up an empty set to bring back into the down yard.

6.    An engine and van is attached to the full set on the table and it’s ready to start again.

7.    An engine and van are attached to the empty set in the down yard and it’s ready to leave.

There is currently enough 21 ton hoppers to have three rakes (two full and one empty) and I see the above cycle continuously worked by one operator with other trains and the shed worked by up to two other operators.

Other trains will comprise general goods, fish, oil, steel, etc. and will be worked into the yard from the up main. In the yard trains will be sorted into short trip freights for the various locations with each being worked down the quayside branch with returns coming the other way.

 

I would like to operate goods trains using a wagon card system with pockets for each destination, I believe this works by each wagon having a card with various destinations on it and they are worked through in turn but I need to find out more about it. Can anyone point me at some guidance ?

 

Regards,

Tom

 

Hi Tom,

Just a thought as you have basically a four track main line with associated loops, how will they work with your turntable? I see the turntable limiting how many trains you'll be able to run at the same time. The turntable would be fine if you were able to fully rotate it which would allow you the advantages of what I propose below -

I'd a thought two separate fiddle yards both ending in turntables with a through connecting road to allow continuous running would give you scope to allow more trains running, this would also allow each train to go from one side of the fiddle yard to the other as if they are going from one location to another. This system was used on 'Stocksfield' by the Birtley club and it gave superb prototypical running.

 

Just a thought.

 

Regards

 

Chris

[Brian D]

Anybody want to buy a Sunderland season ticket ?

 

Sorry for the delayed response and for going OT.  I empathise severely.  I have been a supporter since I was a kid.  The last few seasons, I wonder why I bother - in the blood I suppose.  The only highlight recently was going to Wembley with my son 2nd March 2014 - we lived the dream for the first 55 minutes or so - 1 nil up until Yaya Toure scored a screamer for Man City.  The rest, as they say is history.

The fiddle yard turntable looks hugely impressive.  Keep up the great work.

Best Regards,

Brian.

[johndon]

I would like to operate goods trains using a wagon card system with pockets for each destination, I believe this works by each wagon having a card with various destinations on it and they are worked through in turn but I need to find out more about it. Can anyone point me at some guidance ?

 

Regards,

Tom

 

 

Get yourself a copy of MRJ 151 - there is an article in that issue by Dave Bradwell detailing operation and movement of freight trains on his model based on Derwenthaugh on the banks of the Tyne, it makes for a very enlightening read.

 

John

[tom shaw]

Tom,

That looks mighty impressive and an engenious way to give flexibility in the fiddle yard.

What software did you use to create you plan?

I have benn given 'permission' from SHMBO to build a log cabin 4.5M x 3.5M in size. I have a rough plan in my head, but want to finalise it pretty soon.

Regards,

Karl

Thanks Karl,

The plan was drawn in AutoCAD, only because I'm very familiar with it through my work.

 

I hope you post your progress with your layout, I have found the process very helpful and appreciate the encouragement and advice I've received.

 

Tom

[tom shaw]

Sorry for the delayed response and for going OT.  I empathise severely.  I have been a supporter since I was a kid.  The last few seasons, I wonder why I bother - in the blood I suppose.  The only highlight recently was going to Wembley with my son 2nd March 2014 - we lived the dream for the first 55 minutes or so - 1 nil up until Yaya Toure scored a screamer for Man City.  The rest, as they say is history.

The fiddle yard turntable looks hugely impressive.  Keep up the great work.

Best Regards,

Brian.

Thanks Brian,

The other team I follow is England - oh dear.

 

Tom

[tom shaw]

Hi Tom,

 Great work! I like your operating sequence. For Tynebank, I was thinking about mineral leading and didn't want the same set sequence throughout and so got to thinking about having three or four mineral leading scenarios, which could be chosen at random, for that day.

Each would depend upon whether colliers ready to load, (gas or power coal?) coal available at the pits and  from which way this would arrive etc.

Control would have to route the fulls and empties around the existing WTT. Also ensure there are sufficient locos rostered for the trips, an idea of the time to run from pit to staiths would also add to the operating fun.

 I am making slow progress and now have all the turnout tortoises in place, next step is the big wire up!

I'm hoping to make Newcastle Show next month probably on the Saturday.

 

Cheers

 

Ian B

Some good ideas there Ian, feel free to tell me more so I can use them myself.

 

Hopefully I'll make it to Newcastle, not sure which day though.

 

Tom

[tom shaw]

Hi Tom,Just a thought as you have basically a four track main line with associated loops, how will they work with your turntable? I see the turntable limiting how many trains you'll be able to run at the same time. The turntable would be fine if you were able to fully rotate it which would allow you the advantages of what I propose below -I'd a thought two separate fiddle yards both ending in turntables with a through connecting road to allow continuous running would give you scope to allow more trains running, this would also allow each train to go from one side of the fiddle yard to the other as if they are going from one location to another. This system was used on 'Stocksfield' by the Birtley club and it gave superb prototypical running.Just a thought.RegardsChris

Thanks Chris,

The layout is basically a double track freight line feeding a yard so there will be arrivals and departures with plenty of shunting in between. No need for continuous running and several trains can still run independently to a sequence. There are plenty of off scene tracks where trains can await a road onto the table.

 

Tom

[tom shaw]

Get yourself a copy of MRJ 151 - there is an article in that issue by Dave Bradwell detailing operation and movement of freight trains on his model based on Derwenthaugh on the banks of the Tyne, it makes for a very enlightening read.

 

John

Thanks John,

I have that issue and it's where I got the idea from, being a bit slow I need things spelled out more and I wondered if there was a blow by blow account of Dave Bradwell's system or one like it. The article mentions that it's more of a USA way of doing things so perhaps I should search their knowledge banks.

 

Tom

[johndon]

This might help: http://www.opsig.org/reso/ops101.shtml

 

John

[tom shaw]

This might help: http://www.opsig.org/reso/ops101.shtml

 

John

Thanks again John,

this looks very interesting and worthy of careful study

 

Tom

[tom shaw]

A couple of photos showing recent progress.

 

Track on a couple of boards has been sprayed with sleeper grime and ballasting started. Ballast is Woodland Scenics fine cinders applied in the usual manner. The ballast is carefully placed using a folded business card which is lightly tapped to deposit small amounts between the sleepers. When about a 6 inches of track has been done I spray it with water with a drop of fairy liquid added using a fine atomiser. I "won" the atomiser in a christmas cracker a few years ago but I'm sure something similar would be available from a pharmacy. The fine mist wets the ballast without lifting it away from where it was placed. A 50/50 mix of white PVA wood glue and warm water (again with a drop of fairy liquid) is then applied to the wetted area using a plastic pipette, I have posed my 9F and model of Green Lane (Tyne Dock) signal box for effect. Must finish the signal box one day.

 

The engine shed now has its third attempt at a roof. I used super quick tiles but this time I cut into strips of two tiles deep and overlapped one strip over another. Time consuming but it gives a much better effect than previous attempts. Roof lights are done but not attached yet. Guttering and downpipes will be the next job.

 

Tom

[RAF96]

Literally wallpapered on the walls of the Snow Goose Cafe at Roker Marina is an amazing map,of Sunderland, with the complete layout of the river Wear and associated infrastructure, north and south of the river and the complete local railway network detailed from mainline to coal staithe level.

 

Go and enjoy a coffee and cake but take your camera with you to photograph the specific details of the area you want to model.

Edited December 15, 2016 by RAFHAAA96

[tom shaw]

Literally wallpapered on the walls of the Snow Goose Cafe at Roker Marina is an amazing map,of Sunderland, with the complete layout of the river Wear and associated infrastructure, north and south of the river and the complete local railway network detailed from mainline to coal staithe level.

 

Go and enjoy a coffee and cake but take your camra with you to photograph the specific details of the area you want to model.

I like perusing old-maps.co.uk so it sounds fascinating, I'll have to go sometime.

 

Tom

[tom shaw]

First post for a while and due to a bad back, work and other excuses I've not been able to work on the layout. However I have finally made a start on my coaling stage and thought I would post a couple of photos of the progress so far.

 

The first photo shows plastruct H section columns cut to length and stuck to backing card top and bottom to keep everything square. Also shown are the brick infill panels which will be covered in brick paper and slid up into the column webs, once the windows and cills etc. have been added. The card is about 1.5mm good quality mounting card from an artists supplies shop.

 

The second photo shows the infills in place with sides and back also attached (nothing glued yet). The arches in front are cut from scalescenes arch and window surrounds and the windows have been cut to suit these arches. The large arch was scaled about 92% when printing to give an appropriate width. The window on the right has been cut out but the blank is retained and will be covered in a newer brick than the rest to represent the window being bricked up at a later stage. The base will have a top and cross-pieces for strength which will get rid of the slight bow.

 

See prototype photos on page 1 (provided by North Eastern, thanks Chris) and sketch drawing on page 2

 

Regards,

 

Tom

[ianblenk]

Excellent work, I always look forward to your posts, my work on Tynebank has been suspended whilst I finish off my other layout 'Throckley Fell'.

Keep up the posts please!

 

Ian B

[tom shaw]

Some progress on the coaling stage.

 

 

 

The corrugated iron is Slaters plasticard. I wanted to use the Wills version but it was too thick so rather than thinning it I went about making the Slaters one look like the Wills one. Needs some heavy weathering which I'll do when the rook and ends are made.

 

Tom

[Brian D]

Some progress on the coaling stage.

 

20170215_185404r.jpg

 

20170215_185414r.jpg

 

The corrugated iron is Slaters plasticard. I wanted to use the Wills version but it was too thick so rather than thinning it I went about making the Slaters one look like the Wills one. Needs some heavy weathering which I'll do when the rook and ends are made.

 

Tom

 

Looking very good Tom.

Regards,

Brian.

[RAF96]

If you are in the North East, go visit the Snow Goose café at Roker Marina, where (at least it was still there last year when I stopped for coffee and cake) all the walls are papered with a map of old Sunderland either side of the river, including all the rail tracks, coal depots and buildings of the era.

 

Take a camera and snap a picture of any bit you want to model.

Rob

[Joseph_Pestell]

If you are in the North East, go visit the Snow Goose café at Roker Marina, where (at least it was still there last year when I stopped for coffee and cake) all the walls are papered with a map of old Sunderland either side of the river, including all the rail tracks, coal depots and buildings of the era.

 

Take a camera and snap a picture of any bit you want to model.

Rob

As you said in #93