webbcompound Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 I'm seeking information on Dutton Massey of Liverpool and Birkenhead wagons pre-grouping. Hornby made a four plank (incorrect, without end door, and with diagonal outside strapping), as shown in a photograph in Bill Hudson's book. The wagon is old, but Hudson says it was repainted in the 20s. It has a white rectangle with a three circle device in black. The number is 41. A photo in the RCTS publication on the Birkenhead Railway has similar wagons numbered 1233 and 1239 in the 1930s. Bachmann produced a newer 7 plank end door, slightly different livery, numbered 315, again with the three circles black on white device. Modelmasters produce transfers for a wagon identical to the Bachmann, with number options 309, 312, 315 and 317, but with the three circles device in white (on the black bodied wagon). I'm not sure what the source is for the Bachmann and Modelmasters liveries. Does anyone know if the Modelmasters device is valid, and if so does it relate to an earlier livery, or were both devices in use at the same time? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poggy1165 Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Keith Turton's book (volume 9 of the series, page 50) has three or four photos, all of which show the three circles in black on a white back ground. Except for one which only shows the top plank, and leaves us guessing what is on the door. I have never seen any other livery for these wagons, either pre or post group. However, that doesn't prove beyond doubt that there wasn't another livery. There is a reference I have found to a drawing in The Modeller’s Sketchbook of Private Owner Wagons Book 2 by A G Thomas. I don't have this, but the drawings tend to be post-group - which is why I sold my copy on. If you want my bet, I'd go for the black circles on a white painted door. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJ52 Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Sorry if I'm stating the obvious, but Powsides do it in black and white too. Terry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
webbcompound Posted January 19, 2016 Author Share Posted January 19, 2016 Thanks for this input. This pretty well confirms my suspicions that the black circles on white is the only valid one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted January 22, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 22, 2016 Sorry to muddy the waters just after they had settled. The A G Thomas book says body black, lettering white and shows the trefoil device without a circle so presumably white. The wagon number is 315. Jonathan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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