betehumane Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 I'm making slow but steady progress on my first piece of pointwork! One thing I was wondering if people could suggest was the best way to neutralise flux following soldering of track to rivets - I am using ply sleepers and the whole thing glued to a paper template, so the usual option of a quick bath in a soda crystal solution or similar doesn't seem appropriate. Apart from obviously trying to be very sparing and precise when applying my flux (Carr's red label) I have tried wiping over the soldered areas with a cotton bud soaked in meths as suggested in the EMGS manual, but to no avail: I'm still getting quite a substantial build up of rust along the rail sides (and even on top) around the rivets very soon afterwards. Looks realistic but I'm sure its not doing much good! I was thinking that maybe an application of jif or even toothpaste might do the trick. Is there a tried and tested method I'm missing? Thanks Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Use Carr's Orange Label instead. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
77philg Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 you could try lemon juice, used that as a substitute when silver soldering . imho I would change to frys power flow flux . works with lead free + 60/40 lead solders .Ive built points ,track, brass kits and electronic circuits using it . If not washed off it normally turns green which i wash off with soapy water ,and on brass with jiff . phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Don't use steel rail or use phosphoric acid as flux. It washes off and is a rust preventative anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
betehumane Posted October 22, 2009 Author Share Posted October 22, 2009 Thanks for the tips. A couple of questions: - Is Orange Label a weaker brew of Red Label? - Where can phosphoric acid be purchased from? I assume that it needs to be diluted before use? (sorry I'm sure this info is available many times over elsewhere on the forum...) - Lemon juice sounds interesting, I read somewhere that Coca Cola could be used to similar effect...? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugsley Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 - Lemon juice sounds interesting, I read somewhere that Coca Cola could be used to similar effect...? As Coke is a mild phosphoric acid solution (with added sugar!) that doesn't surprise me. Citric acid can also be used as a flux, and I believe is the primary ingredient in the 'safety flux' sold here: http://www.7mmlocomotives.co.uk/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=1&category_id=1&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=52 HTH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted October 22, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 22, 2009 Thanks for the tips. A couple of questions: - Is Orange Label a weaker brew of Red Label? Just been looking up the same thing after reading that, On my last layout I used green label (mostly because that's what I had to hand) and despite trying to clean the joint it still rusted. Quite keen to use the Orange label stuff this time round. Shame this thread wasn't available last week as could have brought some at Peterborough! According to the internet Carr's Orange Label is: A non corrosive flux that should be used for jobs that cannot be washed such as gearbox castings etc. So assuming it works just as well as a flux, it sounds ideal for this sort of application! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanders Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Is Orange Label a weaker brew of Red Label? All of the different Carrs fluxes are different formulations, so Orange Flux is a different chemical (or formula of chemicals) to Red. Personally I've good results with Orange Label, Carrs Speedy Solder and also use some Carrs Solder Paste for when I need to tack something down and don't have three hands spare... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Phosphoric acid can be obtained as a flux or you could try Halfords under rust treatments (Jenolite Jelly is one source or at least was when I bought some last). For nickel silver rail, I always use multicore solder (as used for electronics). The flux is non corrosive but can be removed with meths or cellulose thinners (care). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Phosphoric acid can be obtained as a flux or you could try Halfords under rust treatments (Jenolite Jelly is one source or at least was when I bought some last). For nickel silver rail, I always use multicore solder (as used for electronics). The flux is non corrosive but can be removed with meths or cellulose thinners (care). Liquid Phosphoric acid is best, the jelly and gel versions, (Naval Jelly etc.), contains a gel thickener made from Agar/Gelatine/cellulose pulp etc., and burns to leave a carbonised mess in some soldering, which the pure acid will not. A useful addition to phosphoric acid is citric acid, and strong pure citric is used in some fluxes, as an Eco friendly version, but it is still acid when dry, and needs washing to get the best results, so for steel track the plain phosphoric would be best. Citric acid comes from home brewers and chemists in powder form. The mix does make some black phosphate residual, unless the steel is perfectly rust free to start with, but this can be wiped away. For the track already rusting, the answer is again phosphoric acid, which will convert the rust red oxide to black residual, which can be wire brushed away, but make sure it is wiped over with a light oil, as at that point the newly clean steel can start rusting again. Hope this helps, Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
betehumane Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 Many thanks for all the comments. Seeing as I'm only a couple of rails into my point, I'll try out a few combinations depending on what fluxes I can pick up over the next few days, and report back! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazz Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 I use Carrs Red Label for everything. Work very well, no corrosion and does not turn green. (Not so good on mild steel though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
10800 Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 Citric acid can also be used as a flux, and I believe is the primary ingredient in the 'safety flux' sold here: http://www.7mmlocomo...emart&Itemid=52 Which also works soldering steel rail to brass rivets. Not been using it long but seems good so far. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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