Castle Aching

[James Harrison]

Once the Martians had landed everything took on a distinctly red hue rather quickly, but they were heralded by green flashes...

 

On the subject of the wily Hun seeking to pre-empt 1914, I always thought Winfrey's Last Case was a brilliant documentary, aside from the obvious geographical inaccuracy of the film makers assuming it was in Cornwall.  

 

[Edwardian]

Once the Martians had landed everything took on a distinctly red hue rather quickly, but they were heralded by green flashes...

 

On the subject of the wily Hun seeking to pre-empt 1914, I always thought Winfrey's Last Case was a brilliant documentary, aside from the obvious geographical inaccuracy of the film makers assuming it was in Cornwall.  

 

 

I have cherished memories of this - you will have gathered that I semi-quoted from it - but how clever of you to find it!

 

Thank you, I will enjoy seeing it again.

[Hroth]

I've a book of the complete Ripping Yarns scripts, but when I looked at the bookshelf, it had turned into "The Complete Goodies"....

 

Oh well, at least that one provides prototypical confirmation for Giant Moggies in model townscapes!

[Hroth]

AND another thing...

 

Being perturbed by that "Poppyland" designation, I hied myself to Google and found it was a result of the fevered imagination of a late Victorian poet, one "Clement Scott" who looks like a 7%er if ever there was one!  (Ok, I know that was a cod-Victorian coke story but still...)

 

See http://www.literarynorfolk.co.uk/poppyland.htm for a picture of the dissolute poet and his deranged ramblings.....

[Regularity]

AND another thing...

 

Being perturbed by that "Poppyland" designation, I hied myself to Google and found it was a result of the fevered imagination of a late Victorian poet, one "Clement Scott" who looks like a 7%er if ever there was one!  (Ok, I know that was a cod-Victorian coke story but still...)

 

Still, at least you found the solution to your perturbation...

 

(One of my favourite films.)

[Hroth]

Very interesting - I hadn't realised that. I had a look at the picture of the Sir Garnet on page 257 of Coot Club and I can see it now. Thanks.

I really must get around to re-reading Coot Club and The Big Six again.

 

My first attempt at developing photographic film was spurred on by the description of Dick developing the film containing the evidence that the D&Gs were not responsible for casting boats adrift.  Its quite interesting what you might learn from an Arthur Ransome book!

[runs as required]

I really must get around to re-reading Coot Club and The Big Six again.

 

My first attempt at developing photographic film was spurred on by the description of Dick developing the film containing the evidence that the D&Gs were not responsible for casting boats adrift.  Its quite interesting what you might learn from an Arthur Ransome book!

But AR's spy craft is coming up to a century old now - you'd probably learn more from Le Carre.

dh

[Hroth]

But AR's spy craft is coming up to a century old now - you'd probably learn more from Le Carre.

dh

But more than adequate for defeating the dastards in the pre-grouping era!

 

Mind you, Le Carre covers BR EC to modern era, so you have to be careful as to which techniques you apply....

[Shadow]

The best map I can find within period (1904) is this early use of a bar diagram by the M&GN

 

M&GN map.jpg

but it doesn't deign to include the WNR (but then neither does it recognise the GER)

 

Is the Management aware of touristy 'Poppyland' just to the east of Castle Aching

dh

 

Thought that this was an early example of Night Vision as used by the military.

 

Pre Night Vision Goggles, more Night Vision Painting.

[TheQ]

Definitely a converted Wherry, you can see the representation of the clinker built hull of most working wherries at the bows. I have been been on Albion http://www.wherryalbion.com, though she unusually has a carvel hull. Most wherry yachts had white hills and carvel hulls. The rescuer of White Moth is a friend at my sailing club https://www.wherryyachtcharter.org/wmoth.php

 

The wherries were chartered with crew, man and boy or man and wife who normally lived in the bows. New sails were white but soon covered with oil and pitch as a preservative.

 

Wherry traffic was of course badly damaged by the railways and finished off by the lorry.

In the post WW2 housing shortage people were living in upturned wherry hulls by the rivers in or near Norwich.

The wherries today are all large wherries but small 20 or 30 ft wherries existed for the smaller dykes and rivers.

 

I think the picture was taken through will-o the wisp

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will-o%27-the-wisp

 

Wherry is a nice pint.

Edited September 30, 2017 by TheQ

[runs as required]

I must thank this thread for offering "Winfrey's Last Case" as a most entertaining night's retro- viewing as a refuge from wife's post prandial Scandi.

Watching it again, I could appreciate how many of the characters surrounding Palin went on to be familiar TV actors in their own right.

 

dh

[Edwardian]

I must thank this thread for offering "Winfrey's Last Case" as a most entertaining night's retro- viewing as a refuge from wife's post prandial Scandi.

Watching it again, I could appreciate how many of the characters surrounding Palin went on to be familiar TV actors in their own right.

 

dh

 

I sat down and watched it over a beer while the family was still out playing with horses.

 

I, too, really enjoyed seeing it again after all these years.

 

I had completely forgotten the intro with the lorry pulling up etc, which immediately set me chortling.

 

The reality was not far different, with Erskine Childers rushing back from a Baltic yachting holiday in 1902, his warnings concerning a German armada of flat-bottomed boats falling upon deaf Foreign Office ears, prompting the publication of his admonitory novel  Riddle of Sands, in 1903.

 

In the meantime, undaunted, elements of the Imperial German High Command, believing in the 'biological necessity' of a general European conflagration and the need to knock Britain and her Empire out at an early stage, put their plans into operation by launching a pre-emptive attack on the east coast of England in the area of the Wash and the North Norfolk coast. Key early objectives included steaming up the Nene to seize the road and rail crossing at Sutton Bridge and a lightening strike aimed at abducting the King from Sandringham.

 

Fortunately, the German plans were exposed at the last moment by Richard Hannay, or, possibly, Gerald Winfrey, who, framed for the murder of an Agent of a Foreign Power in London, was delayed by a hue and cry against him at Liverpool Street Station, and eventually had to travel via Cambridge, having successfully made his way undetected to King's Cross disguised as a milkman.   

 

As a result of his presence on the scene, the German vanguard was held at bay by local Yeomanry and Reserve Infantry formations, supported by armed citizenry. Realising that the element of surprise had been lost, and His Majesty had been taken to safety, the main invasion body steamed away into the night. 

 

The whole thing was hushed up, of course ...

[Northroader]

In your plot synopsis, you totally overlook the role played by the lovely Clara Dollman, How could you ever do that, sir?

[Hroth]

In your plot synopsis, you totally overlook the role played by the lovely Clara Dollman, How could you ever do that, sir?

And her firm hand on the tiller.....

 

Ahem!

[Compound2632]

And her firm hand on the tiller.....

 

Ahem!

 

No, no! We were there only last Wednesday...

Edited October 1, 2017 by Compound2632

[Hroth]

...

 

The reality was not far different, with Erskine Childers rushing back from a Baltic yachting holiday in 1902, his warnings concerning a German armada of flat-bottomed boats falling upon deaf Foreign Office ears, prompting the publication of his admonitory novel  Riddle of Sands, in 1903.

 

In the meantime, undaunted, elements of the Imperial German High Command, believing in the 'biological necessity' of a general European conflagration and the need to knock Britain and her Empire out at an early stage, put their plans into operation by launching a pre-emptive attack on the east coast of England in the area of the Wash and the North Norfolk coast. Key early objectives included steaming up the Nene to seize the road and rail crossing at Sutton Bridge and a lightening strike aimed at abducting the King from Sandringham.

 

Fortunately, the German plans were exposed at the last moment by Richard Hannay, or, possibly, Gerald Winfrey, who, framed for the murder of an Agent of a Foreign Power in London, was delayed by a hue and cry against him at Liverpool Street Station, and eventually had to travel via Cambridge, having successfully made his way undetected to King's Cross disguised as a milkman.   

 

As a result of his presence on the scene, the German vanguard was held at bay by local Yeomanry and Reserve Infantry formations, supported by armed citizenry. Realising that the element of surprise had been lost, and His Majesty had been taken to safety, the main invasion body steamed away into the night. 

 

The whole thing was hushed up, of course ...

Naturally.

 

We were still stocking up on Dreadnaughts, so any contretemps would have been premature.

 

Its a pity it happened in the early part of the 1900s as it would have been a wonderful thing to imagine Hannay/Winfrey skulking in a compartment of a GER express, being hauled at high speed by a then new Class S69 in its marvellous blue livery, the crimson coupling rods flashing as the locomotive exerts its utmost!  Would the carriages be corridor stock?  Or is that the real reason all the film versions of that epic event show him clinging to the outside as he attempts to evade pursuit?

 

Oh well, it would no doubt have been an equally splendid Claude Hamilton!

 

Edit for reasons.....

ie, its Sundae, I left my spelin head off...

Edited October 1, 2017 by Hroth

[Edwardian]

Naturally.

 

We were still stocking up on Dreadnaughts, so any contretemps would have been premature.

 

Its a pity it happened in the early part of the 1900s as it would have been a wonderful thing to imagine Hannay/Winfrey skulking in a compartment of a GER express, being hauled at high speed by a then new Class S69 in its marvellous blue livery, the crimson coupling rods flashing as the locomotive exerts its utmost!  Would the carriages be corridor stock?  Or is that the real reason all the film versions of that epic event show him clinging to the outside as he attempts to evade pursuit?

 

Oh well, it would no doubt have been an equally splendid Claude Hamilton!

 

Edit for reasons.....

 

Ah, now, a Claud will do nicely, plus, in the early 1900s, the spikey-hatted Hun would still be in blue, as would be the Norfolk Yeomanry, while the volunteer battalions of the Norfolk Regiment might still be in red.  Only when the regulars turn up will we see utilitarian khaki!

 

As Churchill said, war in them days was cruel but magnificent; it then became cruel and squalid!

 

 

In your plot synopsis, you totally overlook the role played by the lovely Clara Dollman, How could you ever do that, sir?

 

 

And her firm hand on the tiller.....

 

Ahem!

 

 

No, no! We were there only last Wednesday...

 

  Go on, then ...

[Hroth]

...

 

  Go on, then ...

 

Ohhhhh.........

 

Definitely!

[Edwardian]

Anyway, I was about to post something directly on topic (!).

 

Don W has very patiently been guiding me through the intricacies of points, or, possibly, turnouts (can we please debate the nomenclature on the Pedants' topic?).

 

He has pointed out (pun intended) that there is a Third Way.  I could interlace the older FB points and use the excuse of renewal to employ through timbering on the BH points.

 

This would be simpler - I can use C&L Finescale plastic point component kits, and about £15 cheaper overall, because I will only be buying the chairs and timbers I need for 3 points, whereas buying sleepers and chairs separately will result in more of both that I would use on these three points.  

 

Having said that, I like the interlaced look. It's different and distinctive, and it seems nicely old-fashioned.

 

It has been pointed out that the GE seem to have used interlacing, and, though the WN is not obliged to follow GE practice, it would not be inappropriate to aim for something similar.

 

As for the supposed upgrade to bullhead on the West Norfolk mainline, I am assuming that this took place in the 1898-1902 period.  It strikes me that it would not necessarily be the case that an upgrade at that date would involve the change to through timbers.  

 

My knowledge of track, as you may have guessed, is limited. My knowledge of pre-Grouping practice is scant. However, I am generally familiar with one example, that of the NER.  The NER was noted for its use of ordinary sleepers on points.  I do not believe it used any through timbers until after c.1910, but I believe interlacing with sleepers remained the norm, and through timbering was largely a post-Grouping feature on NE lines.

 

Obviously there is no logical corollary between adoption of BH rail and transition to through timbers - for instance, the NE went from doubled-head rail to BH in 1888, but kept interlaced sleepers on point-work - but the suggestion is that the WN took the opportunity presented by re-laying the mainline in BH to change the way it laid points.

 

So, I considered why a railway might make a decision to retain its former practice or to change it. So, far, I have been influenced by the NE's example; the use of ordinary sleepers persisted because sleepers made it much easier to renew switches and crossings without the use of a crane.  That might be the sort of consideration that would weigh with the WN.

 

So, I am tending, towards all interlaced, including the 3 BH points. 

 

Now this will make the BH points a little more expensive, but not hugely so, and I don't suppose these will be the last BH points I will attempt, so left overs are OK.

 

I want to put in an order for the remaining components tomorrow, so if anyone has any further views on the subject, please, do, make them known!

[Compound2632]

Anyway, I was about to post something directly on topic (!).

 

!

 

My knowledge of pre-Grouping practice is scant.

 

You are not alone. There seems to be very little published, even for the major companies.

 

So, I am tending, towards all interlaced, including the 3 BH points. 

 

When I dabbled in P4 many years ago, I started building a small NER layout with three 1:7 points with interlaced timbers, making the best guess I could from photographs. The trickiest area was working out how to support the crossing. The trackwork on this little layout was built (with C&L components) in-situ on cork glued to the baseboard - timbers and fine sand ballast first - so I didn't have to move the points around; I think an interlaced-timbers point would be rather fragile and easily distorted. At the time, I failed to work out how the do effective tie-bars. The project was built around converting a Mainline J72 to P4 and NER condition (possibly even as a J71) - which didn't work out so the layout stalled.

Edited October 1, 2017 by Compound2632

[Edwardian]

!

 

 

You are not alone. There seems to be very little published, even for the major companies.

 

 

When I dabbled in P4 many years ago, I started building a small NER layout with three 1:7 points with interlaced timbers, making the best guess I could from photographs. The trickiest area was working out how to support the crossing. The trackwork on this little layout was built (with C&L components) in-situ on cork glued to the baseboard - timbers and fine sand ballast first - so I didn't have to move the points around; I think an interlaced-timbers point would be rather fragile and easily distorted. At the time, I failed to work out how the do effective tie-bars. The project was built around converting a Mainline J72 to P4 and NER condition (possibly even as a J71) - which didn't work out so the layout stalled.

 

The plan is to stick cork to the board and then Don W's print-out to the cork and build in situ, which might help?

[Regularity]

The GER used interlaced sleepers between the switch and the crossing, both of which used ordinary timbers. It is easy to do this in Templot: delete the timbers not required, and then use the align-over-template-on-peg functionality to overlay ordinary plain track on the main and turnout routes.

Edit: http://www.oldpway.info/drawings/1900pc_pl07_GER.pdf

 

There is a reasonable amount of information about pre-grouping practice, but it requires some detailed reading, a quantity of intelligent interpolation (the more reading, the better the guesswork) and not a little luck. Railway Inspectorate reports on new lines can shed some light on contemporaneous practice, but you have to allow for changing and evolving practice. There are sketches of crossings and switches in various sources: books (19th Century railway drawings), online and via various line societies, plus the Templot forum, where some have shared the templates they have created, e.g. for NER interlaced 1:8 turnouts, etc.

 

There is also the layout and track design forum on RMWeb.

Edited October 1, 2017 by Regularity

[Regularity]

The trickiest area was working out how to support the crossing.

 

This is based on the "intelligent interpolation", but there are - luckily - only a few principles to remember.

 

Firstly, to keep the switch section working properly, you need to have a full length turnout after the rail joints between the switch and the closure area. The first interlaced sleeper will appear almost immediately after this, in between the last timber and the sleeper which replaces what would have been the next timber, if you see what I mean.

 

Secondly, the spacing of interlaced timbers at the crossing will ce very regular, e.g on each route they will be evenly spaced, say at 30" intervals. On the wing/knuckle rails, there will be chairs on every sleeper, spaced equally, say at 15" intervals. One of the sleepers will be placed to support the crossing nose using exactly the same principles as on a timbered turnout. I think this is usually the "main" route, and from this you can set the other crossing sleepers. Edit: if you look at this link, you can see that the point is supported on the turnout route!

 

Other than spacing being reduced at rail joints, say 24" intervals, then the rest of the interlacing seems to be pretty much based on plain track spacing, juggled to fit.

 

I will see if I can find a reference to an online drawing.

Edited October 1, 2017 by Regularity

[Regularity]

Old pway info.

[nick_bastable]

The plan is to stick cork to the board and then Don W's print-out to the cork and build in situ, which might help?

a little like this perhaps

 

 

Nick