Castle Aching

[Donw]

The blades tips will bullhead rail can be was is known as straight cut where apart from a slight rounding at the top the end of the blade is vertical. On full size railways the close tolerances and flanges can mean the edge of the wheel flange striking the tip. so on facing points a joggle was advisable. On trailing points there was concern that the wheel flange could strike the joggle itself although the GWR using compound planed blades found that joogles were ok  in both directions. It should be noted that the term facing and trailing refer to the main traffic flow any movement in the opposite direction would be at slow speed when the wheel striking the blade tips would be less of an issue. In our models it would not be a problem and also we use wider flangeways and deeper flanges so joggles are not necessary but can be used cosmetically. With modern FB rail the blade tips are undercut so the very tip is under the railhead and joggles are not needed.

 

The set which is a bend in the curved stock rail at the start of the curve is necessary because the straight planed edge of the blade needs to mate snuggly with the rail. If a straight planed blade meets a curved rail it will only meet at the tip. Full size this could mean the full weight of a wheel being supported on just the thin part of the blade which might be damaged. In our models this would not be an issue. However if you dont make a set it is very easy to have the blades meet the curved rail after the tip leaving the tip poking out can liable to cause derailments. So the set is much better. The set angle is the same as the planed angle of the blade. The curve proper starts at the end of the set.

 

Edwardian does have some notes on what chairs would go where to go with the templot plan. I also advised that the sample blades I sent were over length and to cut them to size when fitting.

 

Don

[Compound2632]

I like this live public tutorial! The only time I tried building my own points, in my brief dabble in P4, I didn't get as far as sorting out tiebars effectively, so am looking forward to seeing how that goes.

[Edwardian]

I like this live public tutorial! The only time I tried building my own points, in my brief dabble in P4, I didn't get as far as sorting out tiebars effectively, so am looking forward to seeing how that goes.

 

It's going as we speak!

 

With mixed results!

 

The turnout concerned is the second or middle bull-head.  I don't know why I have decided to try to complete this point first, but I suspect that subconsciously I chose it because this is one for which I made the blades and 'V' and set the crossing myself.  In other words, I need to know whether I can apply what DonW and others have advised to produce a working turnout from scratch.

 

Anyway, I have reduced the length of the blades since the last post and provided a stretcher bar in the form of a PCB strip.  Not the most prototypical, but it will do.  Possibly I may replace it later.

 

In the meantime, I just need to know if it works.

 

I set the points, tipped the board and sent a wagon rolling toward the platform road.  This is an unweighted plastic Cambrian Kits wagon, so if anything is going to derail, it's that.  It rolled on through without a bump, buck or hesitation.  Hurray!

 

Not so when the points are set for the loops.  Oh dear.  I think the problem might be that the front/lower stock rail needs easing out in order to maintain gauge, so after walking the dogs, that is what I will first try.  A slow job, involving much trial and error, I find.

 

Mainly error, to be honest!   

[Caley Jim]

We've all been there, done that, etc., etc.! As I've said before, he who has made no errors has made nothing! :-)

 

Jim

[Caley Jim]

A further thought.  I read somewhere that every time they relaid the trackwork at the north end of Preston station they had to put in place a 10mph speed limit for several months until the trains knocked it all into alignment!

 

Jim

[Edwardian]

I realise that this might make less than compelling viewing, but, for me, it's nail-biting stuff! 

 

It's not perfect, and I don't rule out starting again with new blades, but it does now work.  There is a little bit of flange squeal, which I think is due to the chaired portion of one of the blades needing easing.  The reason I might replace the blades is because I cannot get them absolutely flush with the stock rails. 

 

I do feel that I am getting there!

 

EDIT: Hopefully clearer pictures

Edited January 6, 2018 by Edwardian

[Hroth]

Flange squeal is prototypical, and you haven't had to invest in DCC to get it!

 

Following your track building adventures with interest....

[Donw]

I think you are doing pretty well. While building track is not a rocket science it does need a bit of practice to become proficient. May I point out that the first turnout is a right hander with the diverging route into the goods yard. The second one is a Left hander with the diverging route into the loop and shed roads. This means that the two turnouts have the set on opposite sides. So the middle turnout has the set on the lower stock rail in the picture. That turnout has a 1:9 crossing IIRC and either a 15ft or 18ft switch blade which means the planing angle and the set will be 1:40 or 1:48 respectively. So slight but still help to get the blades to meet correctly. 

I apologise for not remember which switch I used I am sure it was in the details. If however it is not clear I will check the original for you. Templot does helpfully put these details on the edge of the print out but you may have trimmed that off in fitting them all together.

 

Don

[Donw]

I have just checked ( after waiting for Templot to have updated itself with the latest version) it is indeed an 18ft V9 . Probably not the easiest first attempt. The angle of the diverging route is very shallow but quite prototypical a bit of perseverance should do the trick.

 

Don

[Caley Jim]

Re the gap between the tip of the switches and the stock rails.  It may be that the switch is not soldered quite vertical to the stretcher bar.  Slide a wee piece of kitchen foil between the switch tip and the stock rail, hold the tip hard against the stock rail with tweezers and touch the joint quickly with the iron.  Either that, or there is something stopping the switch going over that last few thou., e.g. a small fillet of solder on one or more of the slide chairs near the tip of the switch.  Examining under magnification will show this and a scrape with a sharp craft knife is often all that's needed to remove it.  Likewise any other crud or debris.

 

Jim

[Edwardian]

Re the gap between the tip of the switches and the stock rails.  It may be that the switch is not soldered quite vertical to the stretcher bar. 

 

I think that is the case.  The thought had also occurred to me. I will gratefully take you advice on that. 

 

 

I have just checked ...  it is indeed an 18ft V9 . Probably not the easiest first attempt.

 

Ignorance was, in this case, something close to bliss!

 

Now, on Radio 4, it's time for Thought for the day with the Reverend Edward Beal: 

 

"An example of clumsy rather than extravagant work is seen in P, where a curved point is used.  These are dreadful things; always follow the course shown in Q [straight turnouts inserted after the end of the curve]" 

Edited January 6, 2018 by Edwardian

[Regularity]

A further thought.  I read somewhere that every time they relaid the trackwork at the north end of Preston station they had to put in place a 10mph speed limit for several months until the trains knocked it all into alignment!

Cyril Freezer, mid 70s, Railway Modeller.

Not sure it was as low as 10 mph, but it was a legacy - like York and Peterborough North - of being early on the scene, when short wheelbase stock running at low speeds was normal, and virtually no one had any vision about the potential for railways to provide high speed services.

[Regularity]

These are Ian Pusey’s words on filing switch blades, taken from the March 1982 S Gauge MRS (as it was then) Newsletter, and incorporated into section D of the S Scale Handbook - a free download to all members of the S Scale Model Railway Society, s-Scale.org.uk.

I file my own switch blades using a piece of 9" x 4" x ½" wood as a base. On this is screwed a Destaco over-square locking clamp which holds the rail flat and rigid against filing pressure. I use 8" files for the back of the blade, finishing with the needle files. The rail is turned over and the head only is filed down smooth. Leaving the bottom section in place adds strength, which is why the prototype does it too. I never joggle the stock rails - it is quite feasible to file blades thinly enough so that it's unnecessary to have any recess in the stock rails.

 

To achieve this result, you need to file along the length of the blade. You can also put a sawcut from a hacksaw blade into the base, to accommodate the remaining foot when the rail is turned over.

The rule is: bigger file to remove most of the metal and get the shape right, tidy up and polish with the smaller (2nd cut needle) files.

You don’t have to have an expensive over-centre Destaco clamp, it’s just a handy tool which applies a lot of grip. You may achieve a similar result with a piece of wood fixed to the board to stop the blade moving when filed, and another piece screwed to clamp the rail and stop it moving sideways - a couple of grooves to match the rail head and foot would help.

How thin should the tips be? As thin as possible. Sharp enough to prick the end of your finger, according to the late Norman Pattenden, who really did test them out this way! (When he called it bl00dy track building, he wasn’t swearing, just stating a fact!)

 

Note that Ian says that a joggle is not necessary: as Caley Jim pointed out, this is not the same as a set.

 

If you don’t mind the observations, any criticism aimed entirely at helping you improve on a very credible first effort that puts my tyro creations of nearly 40 years ago to shame, I have cropped one of your photos and ringed some areas of concern. I am looking here at the turnout road, and but you need to consider these points (sorry about the pun!) for the main road, apart from the set.

1) The blade needs to be straight and even: filing along the length of the rail from the end will help here. On straight track, the stock rail would diverge from the main road at a constant angle along a straight line ( at 1:48 as Don says), following a set at point 2. In the case of a curved turnout, apply the curve after you have made the necessary adjustments required for straight track.

2) Put the set here, slightly in advance of the blade tip - that way, you won’t have to get the switch blades as sharp as a knife point, just very close to it.

3a) and 3b) you have bumps in the planing of your switch blade, probably because you filed cross rather than along the blades. These are absolute no-noes. The opposite blade looks OK, so you can obviously do it, but failed to implement a quality assurance test.

4) There seems to be a bump here, which might be tight to gauge, but as you are in 00, you are probably OK, but it would bug the living daylights out of me on aesthetic grounds.

 

In terms of points (3), you need to unsolder the blade, slide it out, clamp it to some wood and address it with a file for a couple of minutes, then put it back in. 10 minutes tops, I would say - less time than it has taken me to download and edit the picture, and then write this.

 

Re the set, it might be possible to put a slight tweak (1:48 is gentle) into the stock rail. You may need to move the slide chairs slightly. I have found, using C&L plastic chairs, ply sleepers and solvent, that it is usually possible to slip a single edged razor blade between the two materials to break the bond. Any plastic which has leached into the wood grain remains there and helps with rebonding once the small adjustments - less than 0.24mm/10 thou - are made.

 

For a first turnout, I must say I admire what you have done and learned, and wonder why on Earth you ever doubted your abilities.

[Regularity]

Very rough sketch (‘O’ level art result, D, a fail, which nevertheless was described by my teacher as the best achievement over ability he had seen so far in 12 years in the job!) of a filing jig, from at the most 4 bits of wood (could all be cut from an off cut of 4”x1” pse) some glue and a handful of screws, plus a washer.

[Edwardian]

For a first turnout, I must say I admire what you have done and learned, and wonder why on Earth you ever doubted your abilities.

 

Certainly, the fear is greater than the danger!

 

Having said that, it is taking me an Age to do this.  I am lucky that a number of you are around, as I have been helped on several points during the course of today's build-sessions.

 

I am currently attempting to introduce a further complexity/opportunity to stop the thing working, as the final BH turnout requires the insertion of trap points.  What the Hell, these might as well be working (or not working, depending on how things go)!

 

Then I will return to the blades on the middle point.  I think the best way to proceed is first to Caley Jim's fix on the top blade and then extract and fettle the lower blade, as you suggest. 

 

EDIT: Here is a P4 example of trap points incorporated within a turnout.  As DonW pointed out to me, there is not enough room between turnouts at Castle Aching to insert a trap point, so they must be done this way.

 

Bloomin' 'eck!

 

 

Edited January 6, 2018 by Edwardian

[Regularity]

Certainly, the fear is greater than the danger!

 

Almost always the case with anything new.

Having said that, it is taking me an Age to do this.  I am lucky that a number of you are around, as I have been helped on several points during the course of today's build-sessions.

 

But that’s the point, isn’t it, of things like RMWeb?

 

Sure, find inspiration (other layouts and models), items for sale, and information, but ultimately it’s about support and friendship.

 

And really bad puns, and going OT as much as possible.

[Caley Jim]

Then I will return to the blades on the middle point.  I think the best way to proceed is first to Caley Jim's fix on the top blade and then extract and fettle the lower blade, as you suggest. 

I should have mentioned that the foil needs to also go under the stockrail, between it and the stretcher bar, its purpose being to stop everything getting soldered up solid!

 

Jim

[Donw]

when I was doing some trial on turnouts for the 2mm scale aociation I was given a turnout blade filling jig to try out. which is similar to the one above there is a flat base with a number of set holes relating to the switches sizes and the appropriate planing angles there is a piece which clamps the rail down which fits in the screw holes the file is a long pice of paxolin with a bit of emery fix to one end the arrangement is such that with the end of the file resting on the clamp the file will be at the correct angle for the switch changing the position changes the switch size. Mind you 2mm bullhead rail is 1mm high and 0.5mm wide very easy to file the jig is useful to stop you over filing such thin rail. For big size rail a bit more grunt is needed. 

You can check your filing by laying the blade flat on a level surface place a steel rule on edge along the top of the blade the filed blade should be in contact with both the surface and the edge of the steel rule over the planed length.  

The exception is those GWR modelers attempting to file fully curved switches where the running edge has a slight curve while the planed edge is straight fortunately for Pre-group trackwork I can use straight switch blades on the GWR

 

Don

[nick_bastable]

You have made excellent progress and I look forward to seeing a loco power through the points ( which is always a nice feeling )

 

Nick

[Nearholmer]

Yes, I'm hugely impressed. From toe in the water, to swimming in the shallows, in a few days, is very good going.

[Regularity]

From toe in the water, to...

...heel in the sand?

 

(See what I did there? Heel, toe? Turnout...

 

I’ll get my coat...)

[Caley Jim]

I’ll get my coat...)

Or as we say up here, pick a windae.....yer leavin'!  

 

Jim

[Hroth]

...heel in the sand?

 

(See what I did there? Heel, toe? Turnout...

 

I’ll get my coat...)

I saw what you did....

 

Hands you your coat with the gravity of a most disappointed Jeeves.....

 

[St Enodoc]

Re the gap between the tip of the switches and the stock rails.  It may be that the switch is not soldered quite vertical to the stretcher bar.  Slide a wee piece of kitchen foil between the switch tip and the stock rail, hold the tip hard against the stock rail with tweezers and touch the joint quickly with the iron.  Either that, or there is something stopping the switch going over that last few thou., e.g. a small fillet of solder on one or more of the slide chairs near the tip of the switch.  Examining under magnification will show this and a scrape with a sharp craft knife is often all that's needed to remove it.  Likewise any other crud or debris.

 

Jim

Baking paper is good too.

[St Enodoc]

Very rough sketch (‘O’ level art result, D, a fail, which nevertheless was described by my teacher as the best achievement over ability he had seen so far in 12 years in the job!) of a filing jig, from at the most 4 bits of wood (could all be cut from an off cut of 4”x1” pse) some glue and a handful of screws, plus a washer.

6767AC00-7F2A-4A8A-8B80-7FE762293C6B.jpeg

Nice and simple Simon (pun not intended).

 

In my pre-O-Level year I was marked D for history in my end-of-year report, with the comment "He must try harder to maintain this standard". I took that as code for "Don't bother taking the exam next year" so I didn't!