Castle Aching

[Donw]

Sorry Chaps and Chapesses.

 

Like many of us, I suspect I have good days and not so good days.  This crisis had been building for sometime, and the best I can say is that, as I seem unable to make a fresh attempt without first experiencing such a drama as yesterday.  For which I, again, apologise. 

 

Thank you all for the moral support and suggestions.  I think I do need to take up the offers of practical assistance, as the thing has got away from me somewhat.

 

I do think it will take outside assistance to get the permanent way cracked, I'm afraid.

 

Thanks again to Nearholmer for all the sterling research on the Wolfringham branch and on the NMR; there will be occasions when an unusually large quantity of coal will be required for some reason at Achingham, and a NMR long-boiler can drag a train of dumb-buffered wagons screeching and creaking into CA!

 

Having wasted three weekends now, I find myself almost out of time, but I was determined to achieve something, so went back to the Stroudley Third.  So far, so good.  I think I've just about saved it. It's far from perfect, but I hope to gest away with it.

 

Me being me, however, I have pointed, weather vane-like, back towards doing my own thing with the chassis.  I still want to try to use fold-up etched W Iron units.  In particular, I like the EB Models fret, designed with Stroudley and Billinton coaches in mind, which include the brakes. Unfortunately, they are out of stock and I must wait upon the etcher.

 

If successful, and I see no reason why they should not be, I would plan to use the EB etches for the remaining 4-wheelers for CA: WNR, GER and M&GNR(ex-E&MR).

 

The material is card, not wood, and is quite porous.  Diluting PVA is probably not wise, therefore, and Linny's instructions, which may be downloaded from his website, and which are quite clear, suggest painting the coach side with neat PVA. 

 

My first attempt, as you have seen, did not go so well.  I think PVA is a perfectly sensible glue for the job, but I found it unhelpful to have glue all over the sides.

 

On Attempt No.2, I applied Roket card glue directly to the rear of the beading.  Less glue overall made things easier. 

 

As intended, the sides and ends are assembled and the partitions are added.  There is no floor as such.

 

What you then have is 3 thicknesses of the heavier card, laminated together to for the floor and chassis.  There are holes to allow the wheels to poke up through and for the tab on the base of the card W irons to be inserted.

 

Now, obviously, if you build up the chassis using 3 thicknesses of card (to the depth of the solebars), you cannot then mount etched W irons beneath them.

 

My modification is to fit a floor to the body, which I cut from 1.5mm mount board, and to cut out a section in the centre of each of Linny's partitions to the same depth, so as to join the partitions to the floor using a tab and slot system.

 

At the same time, I added very rudimentary seats from mount board (well, it is Third Class).  This forms quite a solid structure, and, when the sides and ends are added, the body is very sturdy, and may be laid aside until the W iron etches arrive.  Once these are fitted, I will use Linny's solebar overlays as a template to cut some from card.

 

It is quite possible to build the entire coach, including chassis, from card, as Linny has demonstrated, but I hope he will forgive me for doing violence to that concept and experimenting with the kit in this way. 

 

 

One thing you may not realise is that all PVA is not the same. Apart from the Waterproof type which is sold as that, the are other differences. The ones such as Resin W sold for woodworking are usually fast setting not to full strength but sufficient for a woodworker to continue with a job. I would use such a type for assembling say a laser cut wood kit. Another sort is the the type used for Plastering which is a primer sealer and is often diluted for use.  Full strength it offers a better seal but diluted is good for priming absorbent surfaces it is a bit slower setting so I use it for scenic work such as flocking (as well as for plastering). There is also the type sold for kids which I find rather weak.

 

The use of rocket glue seems a good idea as you had success with it.

 

The other possibility would be to assemble the body so the tumblehomes are formed then carefully placing the beading onto the body paint it with shellac/knotting which should fix the beading and make the whole side much stronger. I t will also colour it so not the choice for pre-printed sides.

 

Don 

[runs as required]

I'd quite forgotten that point about different versions of pva

From my building and fine art background I have always used the waterproofing kind of pva - for mixing with plaster and diluting for priming

It stands to damp quite well

dh

[Caley Jim]

To go back to the track issues, another reason that stock may be bucking going through the crossings is of the check rail and/or wing rail clearances are to tight. This could result in the width over checks being greater than the back to back, so that the flange will ride up on either the check or wing rail.

The easiest way to check what is happening is to use a wagon to push a second wagon over the crossing and watch closely what the wheels of the wagon being pushed are doing. By using a wagon between your finger and the wagon you are watching, there will be no inadvertent effect coming from the finger that's doing the pushing. (Hope that's clear).

 

Jim

[Compound2632]

To go back to the track issues, another reason that stock may be bucking going through the crossings is of the check rail and/or wing rail clearances are to tight. This could result in the width over checks being greater than the back to back, so that the flange will ride up on either the check or wing rail.

The easiest way to check what is happening is to use a wagon to push a second wagon over the crossing and watch closely what the wheels of the wagon being pushed are doing. By using a wagon between your finger and the wagon you are watching, there will be no inadvertent effect coming from the finger that's doing the pushing. (Hope that's clear).

 

Jim

 

... and are the back-to-backs consistently at the standard? - presumably 14.5 mm. I bought a back-to-back gauge with my last batch of Gibson wheels and it has helped identify and re-set some dubious wheelsets, though the main reason I bought it is for reassembling wheelsets onto inside bearing units.

[Northroader]

One I’ve been working at today is when the point blade is open, is there the right clearance to gauge for the gap?

[Edwardian]

Probably all the issues listed.

 

Too much going wrong to narrow it down, It's all shoddy. I did as suggested and pushed some trucks through, but it was too depressing.

 

In the first turnout, (picture below), some stock derails in the areas of the point blade and the nearer stock rail.  You can see where I have inserted a pin to hold the latter in gauge.  I could not even see that the slide chair had moved so much when it came unstuck until I saw the enlarged picture. It does not help that I can no longer see properly.  The time has come for reading glasses! In the meantime, I feel rather like Donald Pleasence in The Great Escape; "I can see! Take me with you!"

 

The second turnout I have failed to gain a good shot of in the poor light.  The main problem here is that the V stands too proud. It may well be that the crossings are too narrow.

 

Bear in mind that the other turnouts are probably equally defective, but I haven't managed to wire them up or make them operational yet.

 

Yes, I can understand wiring when David is standing next to me. He leaves, so does my grasp of the matter!

 

I really cannot think about this anymore, It's just depressing me and I'll end up in a state like yesterday.  In fact, I have.

 

Yes, I need someone here. Sorry, but there is. My solo attempts at fixing this cannot prosper, and I will simply despair and chuck the whole thing.  I simply do not have the mental resilience to deal with the consequences of my lack of ability and success.  As things are at the moment I don't need to discover the wonderful world of something else I can fail at. 

 

Of course, now I just feel again that any other railway modelling will be a complete waste of time.  So nothing will get done.  It's not anyone else's problem to sort out, it's mine.  But I won't sort it out. I've had weeks since T's project ended.  If was going to sort it out, I would have done so by now.  I am not going to sort it out. 

Edited May 28, 2018 by Edwardian

[Les le Breton]

Hi Edwardian, I have nothing but awe for your embarking on such a complex challenge,I have followed it for some time now and hope that the RMweb dons can help you out.

 

I too have had long periods of despair with Aberaeron; notably a huge loss of modelling time, trying to get my turnouts to be operative. It was advice on the RMweb which saved my sanity, suggesting alternative products. There have been a few times I have felt that my efforts were getting me nowhere. My biggest mistake has been attempting a relatively large layout for my first effort, now in my 70's.

 

The scary thing, is that I still have some 0 and N gauge stock, I put in store 30 years ago, when the model railway club I was a member of had to return the premises to the owners!

 

I am lucky to have a very observant, supporting  wife, she spots my black dog days and suggests that I need to visit the Forest of Dean, to have lunch and a search for a kit of some sort or other modelling items, to keep my interest going.

 

I hope folk continue to rally round, supporting Castle Aching on the work bench and/or in your brilliant, erudite threads..

 

"A layout is a little theatre and the trains must act in character; it's all about illusion.

" Swiss Rail Passion.”

Edited May 28, 2018 by Les le Breton

[Shadow]

There's a bloke around here with an old Landy Disco completely covered in artificial turf.  Evidently he installs the stuff.

 

Perhaps someone could do the same to a Terrier (an A1/X that is...)

 

 

Similar down my way, not a Landrover, Smart I think. (Smart as in the make of car!)

 

[Nearholmer]

I read the picture and little dunmow in one.

[sem34090]

Similar down my way, not a Landrover, Smart I think. (Smart as in the make of car!)

 

A car I've noticed a few times over the past few weeks... Parked on Worthing Seafront just down from those two art-deco-esque buildings that frame that garden-type establishment I've yet to explore during afternoon wanderings...

 

I now risk sounding deeply insensitive to your current position James, but I think that it should be fair to say that if track-building is getting you down then it may be worth simply rethinking the trackplan ever so slightly to accommodate some pre-built (Peco, Marcway, C&L, whatever) pointwork. As far as I can tell the most awkward to cover here would be any flat-bottom points you require, plus any with interlaced sleepers, the latter may simply have to be dropped. I sympathise with your dislike of track and wiring, myself preferring the scenic and Locomotive, Carriage & Wagon Superintendent roles vastly over the former.

 

I am in awe that you have even managed to build plain track, quite honestly.

 

And, a final note. I am sure, completely sure, that someone here can either provide practical assistance or, and I know I may be delegating unintentionally here, maybe even be able to construct a point or two for Castle Aching and provide a walk through. We all make huge c**k ups occasionally, and you have done exceptionally well in your trackbuilding.

 

We are with you James, and I think (as you told me some weeks ago) you need to wake up and realise just what you've achieved, because it's a damned sight more than I've managed.

Edited May 28, 2018 by sem34090

[Edwardian]

Well, before returning to examine the track prompted another Pathetic Wave of Despair, I had a little play with some 4mm items that NeilHB was clearing out and let me have for a very reasonable sum.  He threw in a coach that he had been working on.

 

I have carried on with it today and just primed it, the better to see what remains necessary on the body work.

 

Imagine my delight (and surprise!) when I discovered that Neil had been working on a 4-compartment First, built by the West Norfolk in the 1880s.  For comparison it is here next to a West Norfolk First-Second Composite of 1896 (the lower foot board of which is too low).

Edited May 28, 2018 by Edwardian

[Northroader]

There you are then, work on those for a bit, and you’ll have a big smile on your clock in a week.

[Compound2632]

Use more standard chairs? It seems to me there's a long length of both stock rail and switch rail that's not held laterally.

[Edwardian]

Use more standard chairs? It seems to me there's a long length of both stock rail and switch rail that's not held laterally.

 

Sounds very sensible to me.

 

All I need now is the Prozac.

 

The provenance (of the model) is quite interesting.  I worked it out, and sanding in places down to bare plastic confirmed it, but I am hoping that, by the time I'm finished, it won't be too obvious!

[NeilHB]

Well, before returning to examine the track prompted another Pathetic Wave of Despair, I had a little play with some 4mm items that NeilHB was clearing out and let me have for a very reasonable sum. He threw in a coach that he had been working on.

 

I have carried on with it today and just primed it, the better to see what remains necessary on the body work.

 

Imagine my delight (and surprise!) when I discovered that Neil had been working on a 4-compartment First, built by the West Norfolk in the 1880s. For comparison it is here next to a West Norfolk First-Second Composite of 1896 (the lower foot board of which is too low).

Very glad to see that the West Norfolk first of 1880s vintage has proved useful.

 

Sorry to hear of the frustrations and visitations from the black dog - an all too familiar feeling here as well. Keep going, and perhaps a break from layout building and some therapy in the form of a wagon kit or two?

Sadly too far away (though not as far as Annie!) to be of any real use and suport, but I shall send moral support in abundance (and hope it proves helpful).

[NeilHB]

Sounds very sensible to me.

 

All I need now is the Prozac.

 

The provenance (of the model) is quite interesting. I worked it out, and sanding in places down to bare plastic confirmed it, but I am hoping that, by the time I'm finished, it won't be too obvious!

If I remember correctly the following components were mutilated in the construction:

1x Bachmann Emily’s coach 6-wheel chassis - centre wheels and accoutrements remover

1x Bachmann Emily’s coach body, sans roof

1x Bachmann Annie/Clarabel roof and glazing (possibly).

Add to blender and blitz until a West Norfolk 1880’s first is the result!

Details are a little hazy as I think I started work on this well over 5, maybe 6 years ago...

[Caley Jim]

Use more standard chairs? It seems to me there's a long length of both stock rail and switch rail that's not held laterally.

It also looks to me as if the lower stockrail is well inside the line on the Templot plan, from around the tip of the switches to where you've put the pin in.  It seems at its worst just where the lower red arrow is.  This would mean that the gauge is probably narrow in this area and is what is causing the outside flange to ride up over the rail.  If you have a track gauge, trying it at this particular point might confirm that.

 

I'm not familiar with using glued track, but perhaps it might be possible to gently and carefully slide a fine scalpel blade between the sleepers and chairs and reglue the latter a little further out.  At worst you will damage the chair, which can be replaced by a new one.

 

The beauty of soldered construction is that you can easily adjust faults like that.  Just apply the iron to each sleeper in turn and gently nudge things around if this has happened.

 

I hope this is helpful as I am quite sure that all is not lost.   Just sorry I'm too far away to be able to come and help you out (and not familiar with 00-gauge track laying techniques).

 

There are those in this hobby who can achieve perfection.  The rest of us just have to get by with doing the best we can.

 

Jim

[Nearholmer]

If the pointwork truly is beyond redemption, I'm with Sem: rip it out, and go for either r-t-r, or relatively simple to construct soldered-PCB, possibly using ready-made crossings (assume they can still be bought).

 

Your chosen methods of track and point construction are at the very high end of the art, the bl**dy-difficult-to-get-perfect-first-time end, and there's no shame in taking a step down the ladder, in order to get trains running reliably.

 

And that, after all is the point(!) is it not? To get trains running reliably.

 

There would be no way that I would attempt what you've attempted, points-wise, because it would turn out to be a complete disaster ..... beyond my skill, and, I would strongly suggest, beyond the skill of 95% of people who consider themselves railway modellers.

 

Simpler points won't materially detract from CA, any more than the very artfully unprototypical points created by Ahern detract from The Madder Valley.

[Edwardian]

If I remember correctly the following components were mutilated in the construction:

1x Bachmann Emily’s coach 6-wheel chassis - centre wheels and accoutrements remover

1x Bachmann Emily’s coach body, sans roof

1x Bachmann Annie/Clarabel roof and glazing (possibly).

Add to blender and blitz until a West Norfolk 1880’s first is the result!

Details are a little hazy as I think I started work on this well over 5, maybe 6 years ago...

 

That makes sense.

 

I have, so far:

 

- Trimmed off the odd moulded brake arrangement  - I need to find some brake shoes

 

- Removed the battery box and added a gas cylinder.  Given my antipathy to electricity, it is appropriate to light coaches with Pintsch gas - gas lamp tops from Ratio Midland coaches will adorn this and the WN 1890s coaches in due course.

 

- Trimmed the bottom of the body, adding a beading strip, and sanded down the chassis to get the body height required. 

 

- I will retain the wheels, but add MJT/Dart Mansell wheel overlays.

 

- Partitions and seating units can be added to the roof/glazing unit.

 

EDIT: Coach Nuts will notice that this coach has deep wooden solebars (as opposed to the steel solebars of the 1890s coach), and square-lights, relatively high on the body. The alternative WN 1880s style has round-tipped beading, like contemporary GE designs; the 1870s WN coaches have raised square beading on the waist.

 

The 1870s coaches are the oldest WN coaches running on the line, outside departmental use. They replaced the original 1850s Wright coaches, the bodies of several of which still serve the WN in various capacities. That said, second-hand coaches of 1850s and 1860s form the regular Wolfringham set.

Edited May 28, 2018 by Edwardian

[sem34090]

"A very neat conversion - I had my suspicions for a while, but it all looked rather too convincing."

"That is exactly what I had intended you to think, Sir, but needless to say I had little doubt you would join our little Party"

 

Missenden smiled wryly at Sir James "A mere social call this time to divert from the thorny issue of trackwork".

 

Some distance away a man who signed his correspondence 'K' when not hiding under his disguise of a railway servant named 'Sam' who, it was intended to be believed, lived on the South Coast watched the exchange between the two men.

 

I do apologise... I have been reading this rather good series of online novels by a Mr J. M. Upton, a member of this noble forum. I'm currently on 'Embankment': http://www.securitynovels.co.uk/embankment.pdf

 

Not pre-grouping, I'm afraid, but some very nice detailed LT scenes, and nice railway detail in every novel! Even features a Bulleid and a Lord Nelson careering out of Victoria at various points, and (even better!) dismals (to quote Annie...) being shot at by villains!

[Marly51]

Castle Aching is, of course, fictional, and those familiar with the fair county of Norfolk will realise that it is a combination of the names Castle Acre and Castle Rising.  If the layout ever extends to the next station up the line, the passenger will find himself at Flitching (Flitcham and Docking).

 

So, now, there is not much to report, as yet.  Work on the village is underway.  A row of cottage backs were largely completed last year.  These are to go towards the back of the layout and, so, are built at 90% of 4mm scale.  I have just completed a second structure, at about HO, and these two elements will form the entrance to Bailey Street.

 

The cottage backs are based loosely upon/inspired by, a similar row in Castle Acre, where they, like their miniature counterparts, abut the old castle gateway.  The build chiefly used Scalescenes Aged Red-Brick, Flint and Pantiles.  The right-hand structure is freelance.  The rear brick-faced part of the structure used Mixed Brick from Wordsworth, and the long flint elevation used a scaled photograph of cottages in Castle Acre.  The pantiles are again from Scalescenes and are found in their excellent Row of Cottages kit.

 

Edwardian - I love modelling buildings out of card and paper, creating a landscape which could be historical, fictional, whatever, and that is what has got me back into railway modelling. You started over a couple of years ago with a plan and some beautiful model buildings and have engaged us all with trials and tribulations along the way! I am inspired by you and everyone else on this thread and may even attempt to build some track one day, but not yet!!

 

Marlyn

[Talltim]

I sense a certain reluctance on the part of the board of the WNR to engage outside contractors for the permanent way, and I have sympathy with that view. However perhaps a system of barter might work, put undoubted skills of the WNR’s workforce in action in exchange for some assistance with those pesky bits involving soldering and that new fangled electricity.

BTW, if it makes you feel any better, I laid the track on my US module three years ago, for a deadline of a modular meet. Although the diamond I built worked OK (first track I’d built in twenty years) over the two days (stuff just derailed on the plain track instead!) I’m not happy with any of the track, but still haven’t got round to rebuilding it!

The first run over the diamond. Caution, neither pre grouping, nor British

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AhBKiUccWbLepAeaTc_71oUBRiW6

[corneliuslundie]

"Similar down my way, not a Landrover, Smart I think. (Smart as in the make of car!)"

My wife asked if they had copied and pasted the verge in the photo! They really will have to do better than Noch grass matting next time.

 

A nice looking carriage, and very in keeping with the ethos of the line. Keep it up.

 

My next challenge is teaching myself low melting point soldering. I have only had the iron . solder etc for three years. But the body of 1196 - or rather the cast components thereof - shout at me from their box every time I enter the modelling room, and as the chassis has now run under power (no coupling rods yet but it is only a 2-4-0T so that should not be an insurmountable challenge). But that soldering . .  

Now I do have some wagons kits as well ! ! ! No, I must resist temptation, be firm, brave and steadfast - or something.

So I do know how you feel about building track.

And working on the carriage was a very good move. 

Sorry, I am afraid that I am too far from anywhere ever to give practical help to anyone. Not that my track building would ever win a prize at an exhibition anyway.

Jonathan

[runs as required]

I think we Parishoners should acknowledge just how much time and committment Col Stephens Edwardian devotes to maintaining his rickety WNR on-line despite the current poor state of the CA yard's 'permanent' way

No question that Edwardian's ambitions are immense, despite his limited budget and range of skills.  To my mind the CA thread is a modern version of Ahern  With 10000 posts notched up, clearly CA engages with us - because, thanks to RMweb, we are able to interact with Edwardian and other parishoners in adding to the project and its spin offs,

I wouldn't mind betting that rm as a hobby (and supporting model trade) might escape from its joke declining niche of "elderly trainspotters revisiting their short trousers" by attracting a wider younger cohort with interests in colourful historic scenarios. I sense this is already happening...

 

Thats why I want to support the CA project by trying to offer what skills I can.   Thank you to others who are already doing this.

 

Best wishes Edwardian Out Black Dog !

dh

[Northroader]

Jonathan, if you don’t feel up to low melt solder, and I certainly don’t, the times I try white metal soldering it starts to dissolve in shapeless pools, you can assemble your kit with 24- hour Araldite epoxy. Do it a bit at a time, and hold in position with blutak and elastic bands until it’s set, and you’ve done it. I’ve got a big 0 gauge hopper wagon done this way with no problems.