Castle Aching

[runs as required]

1

having once worked in Mexico in the fall autumn, I had the impression Halloween (the Day of the Dead) had been infiltrated up into the US by the Hispanics

2

Rugby result - as our family all remind my son in law who is a Rugby school housemaster: "Patriotism is the last refuge of the Bounder*" ( Wilde)

With our African past, our side of the family were all rather pleased the Springboks had a timely win during the attempts by Ramposa to restore some Rainbow self confidence in SA.

The best Rugby player in our family, playing for Oxford uni. is Scottish; his mum wants him to change to rowing (marginally less collisions)

3

Were there two Sunny South Expresses? What was the name of the train that the Brighton tank ran via Olympia in sprightly fashion to Rugby up the LNW  mainline to Manchester London Road and Liverpool Lime Street without a hint of thrashing, demonstrating the value of superheating to Crewe?

dh

Edited November 2, 2019 by runs as required

[runs as required]

double post (sorry - must be a bit post prandial)

Edited November 2, 2019 by runs as required

[Nearholmer]

I'm 90% sure that Pope burning continues in Lewes; it certainly did when I grew-up in that part of the world. I think they might now make very clear that they are burning a particular, long-ago, pope, who locals have good cause to loath, rather than popes in general, or the current one, though.

[RedGemAlchemist]

4 hours ago, Hroth said:

On Halloween, we used to bob for apples (in a tub or on a string for wimps), eat toffee apples (the trial runs for the 5th), make lanterns out of turnips and tell mildly spooky ghost stories.  Dressing up went as far as a home-made wizards/witches hat.

See, THAT'S real Halloween to me, although we also throw in watching loads of so-bad-they're-funny horror B-movies and eating tons of really unhealthy food like pumpkin pie (and the aforementioned toffee apples).

Edited November 2, 2019 by RedGemAlchemist

[Edwardian]

53 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

I'm 90% sure that Pope burning continues in Lewes; it certainly did when I grew-up in that part of the world. I think they might now make very clear that they are burning a particular, long-ago, pope, who locals have good cause to loath, rather than popes in general, or the current one, though.

 

Politically, in the Seventeenth and Eighteenth Century, anti-Catholic sentiment was routed in the idea that English Catholics owed allegiance to a foreign power hostile to the English Church and State, which, of course, the Papacy largely, if not always that actively, was. 

 

Numerous 'jesuitical plots' to assassinate Elizabeth I, the Armada, Guy Fawkes, the Stuart Pretenders etc, suggested to English Protestants that these fears were well-founded. These attitudes run deep; one comment I heard made by an historian was that, while Bloody Mary burnt Protestants through intolerance and bigotry, Elizabeth burnt Catholics as traitors. 

 

This fear ran deep and long, and it was not until 1829 that Catholic emancipation was made law, removing the civic disabilities and restrictions placed upon Roman Catholics. That was down to Wellington. Hero of Waterloo notwithstanding, the mob still broke his windows for it.  

 

Whatever the reason for it, I doubt, however, that in burning the Pope in effigy the good people of Lewes are expressing concerns over the power of foreign institutions to threaten our freedoms, well, at least no more than 47.9% of them anyway.    

[Compound2632]

2 hours ago, runs as required said:

 

Were there two Sunny South Expresses? What was the name of the train that the Brighton tank ran via Olympia in sprightly fashion to Rugby up the LNW  mainline to Manchester London Road and Liverpool Lime Street without a hint of thrashing, demonstrating the value of superheating to Crewe?

 

 

That was the Sunny South, with the Marsh atlantic tank running through to Rugby. However, I'm not so sure that the tale of this being the feat that brought superheating to the Crewe LDO's attention; they can hardly have been ignorant of the development of superheating or indeed Brighton's application of it. I believe that around 1908/9 there was a series of exchange trials on the LNWR that involved an Ivatt GNR atlantic as well as one of D.E. Marsh's atlantic tanks.

 

47 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

Bloody Mary burnt Protestants through intolerance and bigotry, Elizabeth burnt Catholics as traitors. 

 

 

The government of Queen Mary I burnt heretics; the government of Queen Elizabeth I executed traitors - by the axe for nobles, by hanging, drawing and quartering for the rest. I read a very interesting piece recently (probably in the TLS) to the effect that Elizabeth could never have been as effective a queen regnant were it not for the six years put in by her elder sister in demonstrating that such 'monstrous regiment' was practical and not offensive in the sight of God or the people.

 

As for King Philip II of Spain and I of England and Ireland, a very practically-minded man*, he just wanted his rightful inheritance, the property of the deceased wife going to her widower. Prior to the Armada, at the start of Elizabeth's reign he had put in a bid for her hand, too. He came of a dynasty that had some skill in building empire by marriage (amongst other means) though in the end he was to find such conquests rather slippery.

 

*Don't believe all the stories of austere piety - just look at the cycle of paintings he commissioned from Titian.

Edited November 2, 2019 by Compound2632

[webbcompound]

I would guess that the lack of superheating on the LNWR before 1903 was initially because Webb did not have a patent on it. Then Whale had to carry out a rapid modernisation of locomotives and really didn't have time for too much innovation, or the energy to convince the board.  Bowen-Clarkes first design, the Queen Mary class, an update of Whale's Precursors were not superheated, but an experimental engine built at the same time, the George the Fifth, proved the cost effectiveness of superheating and having convinced the board the new George the Fifth class locos, and all subsequent locos, were supoerheated.

[Compound2632]

Nobody in Britain was experimenting with superheating before 1903. The first large-scale application was to a class of locomotives of the Prussian State Railways, built in quantity from 1902. Whale's Precursors and Experiments were into mass-production by the time Churchward's experiments had demonstrated the advantages of superheating. Marsh and Robinson were other early adopters; Bowen-Cooke was very close behind. It's only towards the close of the first decade of the 20th century that superheating really started to become established. So Webb and Whale should not be blamed for not using it!

[webbcompound]

Nobody was experimenting with superheating in Britain  before 1903, but the engineers were well aware of Dr Schmidts work on locos between 1898 and 1902. If Whale had been able to take over from Webb a few years earlier than 1903 he might not have had to spend his career converting the 0-8-0s from compounds and replacing short run compound classes (which, whatever their running efficiency, were not cost effective as they were mostly in small classes often as small as ten locos) and would have been able to start modernising the fleet earlier. When he resigned through ill health in 1909 his replacement Bowen Cooke was able to carry on the modernisation and was rapidly able to adopt superheating for all new locos, for the upgraded 0-8-0s, and for all Whale's Precursors

 

Edited November 2, 2019 by webbcompound

[brianusa]

As one who has lived in the US for the past sixty years or so, I can add to the negative comments that it is not such a bad place as some have inferred.  I would also add that I am still a loyal subject of HMtQ and a British citizen as is my wife so we are not necessarily pro American in all things.  Came here because of the general malaise in the fifties and sixties when unions and Labour were ruining the country and the ability to get ahead was daunting.  This country has been good to us, didn't exactly make our fortune but have done well and retired early with money in the bank..  Things are not good right now with the current situation but luckily we have not been directly affected.  Hopefully it will all soon pass, whatever you favourite Brexit outcome be resolved and trains can once more be the real reason for our postings.

     Brian.

[Hroth]

5 hours ago, Donw said:

The really good thing about festivals such as Christmas is they cannot be cancelled.

 

Although after the execution of Charles 1, the Commonwealth Government (1649 - 1660) banned Christmas and Easter, shut down the theatres and prohibited gambling.  Its not surprising that there was a riotous reaction with the Restoration!

 

 

 

[Nearholmer]

Yes, they banned Christmas because it encouraged "carnal and sensuous" behaviour ........ which is just what people have always wanted to indulge in to cheer them up when it's dark and cold out (and when it isn't, if they can get away with it).

 

Just think, if they hadn't made that major tactical error, the restoration might never have happened, and we would have been a republic for the past several hundred years. How might that have changed the course of history?

[brianusa]

17 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Yes, they banned Christmas because it encouraged "carnal and sensuous" behaviour ........ which is just what people have always wanted to indulge in to cheer them up when it's dark and cold out (and when it isn't, if they can get away with it).

 

Just think, if they hadn't made that major tactical error, the restoration might never have happened, and we would have been a republic for the past several hundred years. How might that have changed the course of history?

 

Don't even think about that!

     Brian.

[St Enodoc]

15 hours ago, Annie said:

Celebrating Halloween has started to creep its insidious way into New Zealand and I don't like that at all.  It's not a part of our cultural tradition as it's just another nasty foreign influence spread from the US via the internet and social media.  Fortunately living in the rural countryside as I do I don't have to put up with it, but in cities like Auckland swarms of trick or treaters are becoming a problem.  People tell me, -'Oh it's just a bit of fun, it's nice seeing the kiddies dressing up', - but it's not as far as I'm concerned.

 

14 hours ago, sem34090 said:

Call me old fashioned (and you would be right) but I too despise Halloween. It really does seem to have become the epitome of abhorrent American 'culture'. I'm gradually going off Christmas as the biggest consumerfest of them all, though being a greedy and selfish sort I will accept the benefits of the season.

 

Also, is it wrong that I think it's fine to laugh at and take the rise out of all cultures, especially my own? Is that racist, because certainly lots of other people I know have branded me such.

When I lived in Scotland in the 1970s/80s it was called guising and was a far less aggressive/assertive business. See:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trick-or-treating#Guising

[Malcolm 0-6-0]

12 hours ago, RedGemAlchemist said:

 

so long as it's clear you're taking the mick

 

And this Mick then, and where would yez loik me to be taking him to?

 

Paddy

[Edwardian]

7 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

 

Just think, if they hadn't made that major tactical error, the restoration might never have happened, and we would have been a republic for the past several hundred years. How might that have changed the course of history?

 

7 hours ago, brianusa said:

 

Don't even think about that!

   

 

You mean an elected Head of State?

 

What could possibly go wrong?

[RedGemAlchemist]

5 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

You mean an elected Head of State?

 

What could possibly go wrong?

*cough*America*cough*

[Donw]

I doubt we will be able to come up with the perfect system of government. On the one hand a socialist view where all should be shared equally ignores the lack of a reward for the extra effort put in by some and the lack of effort put in by others with no incentive to do more. On the other hand the capitalist view that in striving to get the maximum you can for your efforts the better off generate more wealth with lifts the poorer too which ignores the problem when the richest take too much.  Much of our political argument is about the balance between the two. The extremes at either end produce a dictatorial state.

 

Don

[Nearholmer]

It’s a foregone conclusion that in 350 years we (Or rather “they”, because suffrage would probably have started very narrow) would have elected a few truly terrible presidents, a few really good ones, and lots of so-so ones, but I was wondering more if it might have affected things like the progress of proto-science, agricultural reform, the industrial revolution etc.

Edited November 3, 2019 by Nearholmer

[Compound2632]

Oliver Cromwell was on the way to establishing dynastic rule, with his son Richard as his successor.

[Nearholmer]

Indeed, and it was a pretty strange republic, with whiffs of a religious state (although that is very complicated, because it was actually very tolerant of different faiths).

 

its hard to discuss it in modern language, because our concepts of a republic are massively influenced by what emerged in the late C18th and then C19th; half of the ideas that I formed those republics had barely been expressed in mid-C17th.

[Regularity]

37 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

(although that is very complicated, because it was actually very tolerant of different faiths).

 

Faiths, or denominations?

Pardon my ignorance, but how were they on Roman Catholics?

[webbcompound]

The position of catholics during the republic is nowhere near as straightforward as people imagine, and the popular view is largely the product of clerical propaganda. Cromwell was against priests controlling people, but had no problem with people remaining catholic(a battle cry was "No Bishops" not "No Catholics"). Rebels were deprived of property, but non-rebelling catholics were generally not. Drogheda was an English Protestant town and the massacre there was largely in line with normal 17thC methods of controlling rebellion. And if you want to know more (of course you do) here is an interesting paper on the subject of Cromwell, Ireland, and the Catholics.

Cromwell_and_Catholics_Reassessing_Lay_C.pdf

[Nearholmer]

Not exceedingly tolerant, but positions shifted quite a bit in a short period, for instance the toleration of the Jewish faith wasn’t encompassed by the first laws, but  Jews were welcomed and allowed to practice their religion freely.

 

This has quite a good section https://www.repository.law.indiana.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=5272&context=ilj in the subject, and it makes the very good point that it was the first attempt by anybody to enshrine toleration in law....... so it’s no surprise it wasn’t total ....... a bit like their proto-democracy.

[Regularity]

And then there were the Levellers, True Levellers, Diggers and other assorted groups...