Hroth Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 (edited) This probably verges upon TMI but to cheer myself up after contemplating Sing Something Simple, with Cliff Adams, The Cliff Adams Singers and Jack Emblow on accordion. I'm wearing a pair of BRIGHT ORANGE SOCKS with open sandals this morning. Aaaahhhhhhhhhhhh... I feel better already! Some poor, deluded soul has even created a Wikipedia entry for SSS... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sing_Something_Simple You can tell that this enforced stay-at-home is having an effect, a terrible one. And its past 9am and NO white vans... Edited March 30, 2020 by Hroth No reason, no reason at all.... 1 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Edwardian Posted March 30, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted March 30, 2020 11 hours ago, Edwardian said: Nudging even closer ....... Rather crude, but does give a general idea of where we're going .... 16 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm 0-6-0 Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 Now that's looking like becoming a splendid little beast. An enjoyable change from all this angst over the Black Death and will it mean the end of the medieval period as we know it. Our government has now decreed that any public gathering of more than two people will be an offence punishable by a hefty fine. Which leads one to the consideration that if they ban gatherings of solitary individuals will that then mean we won’t know what to do with ourselves? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold NeilHB Posted March 30, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 30, 2020 24 minutes ago, Edwardian said: Rather crude, but does give a general idea of where we're going .... Delightful James - it looks like a T7 to me! The primer colour makes me think of Iain Rice/Bob Barlow's East Suffolk Light Railway No.3, which was a T7 in a very fetching yellow livery. I'm now wondering if I could do the same with one of the new Dapol 7mm 1400's... 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted March 30, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Nearholmer said: I’m sure that it would be possible to carry out analysis of rhythms, and take frequency domain plots, to arrive at a fully detailed understanding of the characteristics of music and it’s affects on the human psyche, then create a multi-dimensional scale with axes like: physically energising; mentally energising etc etc. ’Sing Something Simple’ would be an extreme outlier, way down in the bottom left hand corner on all, or in the far negative if the measurement scales used have a central null point. Measurably, rather than immeasurably blooming awful. (Did anyone, other than that Emblow chap, enjoy it??) Yes, I did. I've even got four or five SSS CDs to remind me of the good old days of wet Sunday afternoons building trains in the spare room. Oh, and I forgot to mention Charlie Chester's show! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted March 30, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Nearholmer said: I’m sure that it would be possible to carry out analysis of rhythms, and take frequency domain plots, to arrive at a fully detailed understanding of the characteristics of music and it’s affects on the human psyche, then create a multi-dimensional scale with axes like: physically energising; mentally energising etc etc. Sounds like Adrian North’s work, e.g. https://psychcentral.com/lib/preferred-music-style-is-tied-to-personality/ Quote Blues fans have high self-esteem, are creative, outgoing, gentle and at ease Jazz fans have high self-esteem, are creative, outgoing and at ease Classical music fans have high self-esteem, are creative, introvert and at ease Rap fans have high self-esteem and are outgoing Opera fans have high self-esteem, are creative and gentle Country and western fans are hardworking and outgoing Reggae fans have high self-esteem, are creative, not hardworking, outgoing, gentle and at ease Dance fans are creative and outgoing but not gentle Indie fans have low self-esteem, are creative, not hard working, and not gentle Bollywood fans are creative and outgoing Rock/heavy metal fans have low self-esteem, are creative, not hard-working, not outgoing, gentle, and at ease Chart pop fans have high self-esteem, are hardworking, outgoing and gentle, but are not creative and not at ease Soul fans have high self-esteem, are creative, outgoing, gentle, and at ease 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
runs as required Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, St Enodoc said: A shame it isn't a couple of years older - you could listen to the King's Speech instead. I used to do that on a Gamages Crystal set. I never ever understood how they worked. Was there a connection with stories of folk who heard the Light Programme coming out of their gas stove i.e. the crystal spark ignition device? apology Oh dear, I've done it again, just joined the WNR mainline several block sections south of where its got to now! A really lovely little (Stratford Johnson?) 'T something' emerging Edited March 30, 2020 by runs as required 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Regularity said: Sounds like Adrian North’s work, Not quite the same: I’m proposing to analyse the music mathematically, then attempt to relate mathematical characteristics to mental and physical affects of the music. Some would be pretty obvious, I guess, such as a strong beat being physically energising, possibly the frequency of beat, or harmonica thereof, being directly related to heartbeat or similar. But much more subtle affects must also apply. Not being musical, I have no idea of the nomenclature that musicians use to codify different patterns within music, but I do know that all of those things are easily reduced to numbers. Im sure that someone must have done this already, and composers clearly understand it all in their own, not always mathematically expressed, terms. Edited March 30, 2020 by Nearholmer 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted March 30, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 30, 2020 15 minutes ago, Nearholmer said: Not quite the same: I’m proposing to analyse the music mathematically, then attempt to relate mathematical characteristics to mental and physical affects of the music. You need to look into the matter in more depth: that was a cursory overview of the end result, and the link between the effect on affect and personality. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 16 minutes ago, runs as required said: I used to do that on a Gamages Crystal set. I never ever understood how they worked. Was there a connection with stories of folk who heard the Light Programme coming out of their gas stove i.e. the crystal spark ignition device? apology Oh dear, I've done it again, just joined the WNR mainline several block sections south of where its got to now! A really lovely little (Stratford Johnson?) 'T something' emerging Doesn't really matter, the interleaving of topics keeps ALL of us mentally agile. I'm surprised that bread hasn't popped up again... A crystal set relies on a basic tuned circuit (coil and tuning capacitor) with the output being rectified by the crystal to provide the audio signal for the headphones, and as you will recall DOESN'T NEED A BATTERY! Left to right: coil with aerial and earth, in parallel a tuning condenser, a diode (cats whisker or solid state diode), earphones. The crystal in a cats whisker set was a lump of galena (Lead sulphide, PbS) with surface impurities forming a crude semiconductor, the whisker used to probe for these impurities thus achieving rectification and thus the audio signal. It wasn't a stable affair, any vibration could dislodge the whisker and the location process would have to begin again. By time I made crystal sets, the cats whisker was replaced by a glass-encapsulated germanium diode, similar in effect but infinitely more stable! 2 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Northroader Posted March 30, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 30, 2020 If the Temperance Seven is what you like, you might as well go for the group that started the ball rolling, the ODJB, although their first recording was 1917, just after the Edwardian era. In the link you’ll find another link halfway down for the original recording, complete with “novelty” sounds which the T7 like to do. (Try their “Laughing Blues”) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_Dixieland_Jass_Band 3 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 4 minutes ago, Northroader said: If the Temperance Seven is what you like, you might as well go for the group that started the ball rolling, the ODJB I've got the World Record Club double LP of all the ODJB recordings, another one to dig out... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 (edited) I have made a crystal set using a galena crystal and a whisker made from NS wire sharpened to a point, and it did work. You can buy a kit from the science museum, but the whisker in it is rubbish, so that doesn’t work! At the CA date, many WT radios were possibly using an even earlier semi-conductor, called a ‘coherer’, I’d have to check. Circuits from a c1902 textbook from my shelf. I think the ‘diode’ symbol implies a crystal, and the ‘cup’ an electrolytic semi-conductor, and there was another symbol for a coherer. Edited March 30, 2020 by Nearholmer 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted March 30, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 30, 2020 44 minutes ago, Nearholmer said: Not quite the same: I’m proposing to analyse the music mathematically, then attempt to relate mathematical characteristics to mental and physical affects of the music. Some would be pretty obvious, I guess, such as a strong beat being physically energising, possibly the frequency of beat, or harmonica thereof, being directly related to heartbeat or similar. But much more subtle affects must also apply. Not being musical, I have no idea of the nomenclature that musicians use to codify different patterns within music, but I do know that all of those things are easily reduced to numbers. Im sure that someone must have done this already, and composers clearly understand it all in their own, not always mathematically expressed, terms. Kevin, have you read a book called "Gödel, Escher, Bach: an Eternal Golden Braid", by Douglas R Hofstadter? The subtitle is "A metaphorical fugue on minds and machines in the spirit of Lewis Carroll". It's a little bit on the lines you are suggesting although seriously weird and extremely dense. I only managed the first hundred of over 700 pages before I lost the will to live. I'm still not sure whether it's supposed to be a genuine work of mathematical and musical metaphysics or an extremely elaborate and tedious joke. Either way, it won the Pulitzer Prize for general non-fiction in 1980. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Nearholmer said: I have made a crystal set using a galena crystal and a whisker made from NS wire sharpened to a point, and it did work. You can buy a kit from the science museum, but the whisker in it is rubbish, so that doesn’t work! At the CA date, many WT radios were possibly using an even earlier semi-conductor, called a ‘coherer’, I’d have to check. Circuits from a c1902 textbook from my shelf. I think the ‘diode’ symbol implies a crystal, and the ‘cup’ an electrolytic semi-conductor, and there was another symbol for a coherer. The diode symbol is a more or less picture of a cats whisker detector, the arrow is the whisker and the flat the crystal. The coherer was a pre-grouping detector which, according to the News Chronicle "Wireless Constructors Encyclopedia" by F J Camm (again!), is "a form of detector in which a non-conducting tube is filled with loosely packed metallic filings. The application of a current causes the filings to 'pack' or cohere, providing a conducting path". The coherer would be associated with a mechanical vibrating device to de-cohere the filings when the current had ceased to pass. When Marconi were the only game in town for WT, the coherer and spark-gap transmitter ruled the airwaves! I've no idea what the cup thingy does, I'll have a look through the "Encyclopedia" to see if it turns up - it might be some form of differential condenser. 8 minutes ago, St Enodoc said: Kevin, have you read a book called "Gödel, Escher, Bach: an Eternal Golden Braid", by Douglas R Hofstadter? The subtitle is "A metaphorical fugue on minds and machines in the spirit of Lewis Carroll". It's a little bit on the lines you are suggesting although seriously weird and extremely dense. I only managed the first hundred of over 700 pages before I lost the will to live. I'm still not sure whether it's supposed to be a genuine work of mathematical and musical metaphysics or an extremely elaborate and tedious joke. Either way, it won the Pulitzer Prize for general non-fiction in 1980. Oh lord... A marvellous doorstop of a book but, as you say, completely inpenetrable. My copy is in deep storage in the attic... Edited March 30, 2020 by Hroth 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clearwater Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 @Nearholmer I recall that some people have undertaken mathematical analysis of music including ABBA. A quick google found this link that you may find interesting: http://www-personal.umd.umich.edu/~tmfiore/1/FioreWhatIsMathMusTheoryBasicSlides.pdf David 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcredfer Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 Father used to be of the, strong, opinion that the intelligence of a listener was in inverse proportion to the musical phrase repeat rate. Julian 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm 0-6-0 Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 15 minutes ago, St Enodoc said: I only managed the first hundred of over 700 pages before I lost the will to live. I'm still not sure whether it's supposed to be a genuine work of mathematical and musical metaphysics or an extremely elaborate and tedious joke. Either way, it won the Pulitzer Prize for general non-fiction in 1980. Sounds like an impenetrable book I once got stuck with (also a candidate for the Pulitzer) Gravity's Rainbow as my sole source of reading material, while stuck for several days in Broken Hill in far west Queensland, while waiting for my next assignment from the mining company that employed me to survey their prospects for aboriginal sites as part of the EIS requirements. After several days of that turgid prose I was positively lusting after weeks of labouring through the spinifex in searing temperatures accompanied by my own personal miasma of blow flies. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 (edited) The “cup thingy” is an electrolytic semi- conductor, a solution of salts in a metal cup, with a dipper that performs the same function as the whisker. What I haven’t found out yet is what the ‘brew’ in the cup was, but I’ve got another pre-WW1 book somewhere with a recipe for a liquid rectifier in it ...... to be used to run your model railway if you have built locos with permanent (well, they weren’t really, but they thought they were at the time!) magnet motors. I have a hunch that it will be the same concoction. If you want to see coherers, there is a huge display of them in the science museum in London. Edited March 30, 2020 by Nearholmer 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 A bit of googling and: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolytic_detector I'd read of the Fassenden detector but didn't look it up! Again the symbol is a literal depiction of the cup and wire, in this case the cup contained an acid, and the wire was platinum. The circuit diagrams show the bias battery. The wikipedia article is most informative. 14 minutes ago, Nearholmer said: If you want to see coherers, there is a huge display of them in the science museum in London. Until its open again: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coherer 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted March 30, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 30, 2020 40 minutes ago, Clearwater said: I recall that some people have undertaken mathematical analysis of music including ABBA. Sonata form with a repeated second subject. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 15 minutes ago, Compound2632 said: Sonata form with a repeated second subject. The composer gets through the development phase, then has second thoughts? 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted March 30, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 30, 2020 The most awful thing about Sing Something Simple was the fact I new most of the songs. Charlie Chester was a different matter it came on after something else and being busy I hadn't got round to re-tuning when one of the offers of things being more or less given away came on and I heard the words 0 Gauge model railway track. I was on the phone as quick as a flash and got there first. I acquired 48 yards of Peco track three turnouts and a couple of wagons for a tenner and the trouble of collecting it. So many thanks Charlie. Don 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 50 minutes ago, Donw said: Charlie Chester Just the mention of his name brings back his voice, very distinctive, and I’m afraid to a younger me the epitome of ennui. Its back to those patterns in sound, and what they evoke. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted March 30, 2020 Author Share Posted March 30, 2020 I find the nomenclature confusing. "Ragtime" seems strictly to refer to piano music, but clearly bands "ragged" tunes. Dixieland seems to refer to the slightly later early jazz. No doubt there was transition and overlap, though some commentators claim that Ragtime really died with Scot Joplin in 1917. I have a few unanswered questions. Ragtime, unrecorded and, perhaps, not spreading too far from its Missouri cradle, could have been played as early as the 1860s, and certainly a lot earlier than 1897, when the publication of Joplin's Maple Leaf Rag got Ragtime 'out there'. Thought to derive from the plantation "cakewalk", the first generation of ragtime performers may have been freed slaves. and it is generally credited as a native US musical genre, albeit one of the ingredients is considered to have been jigs and reels from the British Isles. One commentator I have seen on line suggests that what we call ragtime was exported from Scotland, so, allegedly not a native US form after all. After ragtime broke into the mainstream, it seems to have become very fashionable very quickly, and to have spread overseas. Apparently it was all the rage in Paris in 1902. It influenced several European classical composers. Skip forward to Home in Pasadena; published in the US in 1923, but, as we have seen, performed and recorded in Britain by 1924. Would we even properly regard it as ragtime? I wonder, then, if sometime in the early 1900s, ragtime took some hold in Britain? Did it have a fashionable moment here? T7 joke that they were formed in 1904, but were there really British bands formed at this time, playing in this style? Was ragtime sheet music on sale in Britain in the 1900s, or, perhaps, that extra ragtime page to the song, giving the syncopated score? Was anything recorded? Returning to Pasadena, from the 1880s this town was both a fashionable resort and artistically fashionable. It would have been a trendy place to name check in a trendy song. A new station was opened in 1925, but our sonorous traveller of 1923 would have alighted at the Santa Fe Depot. 6 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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