North West Frontier

[Joseph_Pestell]

You seem to me making quite good progress with your researches into this.

 

Apart from the 0-6-2T which resembles a Coal Tank (and also a passing resemblance to some GCR 0-6-2T), the 0-6-0 and 2-4-0 bear quite a similarity to GER locos. Some of these have been available in 3mm scale and could be the basis of conversion if you can find them (Finney and Smith would have been a good source but have stopped trading, I  believe). But they are quite simple locos and you could probably scratchbuild easily enough, perhaps using carved up parts from something cheap like Airfix/Dapol kits or GBL.

 

Sleeper size on Peco Code 75 HO is probably not far out as it is on the small side for HO but you might need to look at the sleeper spacing. Might be worth taking a look also at Shinohara Code 70.

[PhilJ W]

Do they have railway modellers in India? There is a small but developing hobby in China with a limited number of Chinese prototypes becoming available so perhaps India will follow suit.

[Talltim]

There's quite a large rail fan contingent, lot of useful websites (for current stuff) but I'm not so sure about modellers

[Dzine]

Edwardian, you are too kind, thank you.  I think if I can get to the stage of producing locomotives and rolling stock in 3mm scale/16.5mm gauge, the rest will be plain sailing, but there are research as well as modelling issues to be overcome.

 

I want to keep nodding to the film, and I notice that, on your excellent Castle Aching thread, you post a picture of the Electrotren 0-6-0T that Dzine references in his article, paired with a coach remarkably similar to that used in the film!  If I do a post about the train in the film, could I possibly borrow that image?

 

Dzine, I would like to post a copy of the drawing of the train in your article, would that be possible?

Hi Mad Carew, Really enjoying the posts and have learned so much more.  Please feel free to post a copy of the drawing.  Keep up the good work.  Kindest regards Paul

[Dzine]

Do they have railway modellers in India? There is a small but developing hobby in China with a limited number of Chinese prototypes becoming available so perhaps India will follow suit.

Hi Phil, Check out the Indian Railway Fan Club Association (IRFCA), there's a small modelling contingent but tons of stuff on the prototype.  Regards Paul

[Dzine]

You seem to me making quite good progress with your researches into this.

 

Apart from the 0-6-2T which resembles a Coal Tank (and also a passing resemblance to some GCR 0-6-2T), the 0-6-0 and 2-4-0 bear quite a similarity to GER locos. Some of these have been available in 3mm scale and could be the basis of conversion if you can find them (Finney and Smith would have been a good source but have stopped trading, I  believe). But they are quite simple locos and you could probably scratchbuild easily enough, perhaps using carved up parts from something cheap like Airfix/Dapol kits or GBL.

 

Sleeper size on Peco Code 75 HO is probably not far out as it is on the small side for HO but you might need to look at the sleeper spacing. Might be worth taking a look also at Shinohara Code 70.

Hi Joseph, They had Sentinels too.  Regards Paul

[Mad Carew]

The Te-Rain – Part 1, The Film

 

“The Government has brought on us many taxes, but it gives us one good thing - the te-rain that joins friends and unites the anxious. A wonderful matter is the te-rain.”

 

In many ways the Te-rain is the star of the 1959 film, North West Frontier.  As Paul/Dzine pointed out in his article, the train starts out in India, running on metre gauge, and continues on a broader gauge in Spain, matters not hitherto noticed by Yours Truly.

 

The locomotive, or rather, locomotives, depict the Empress of India, affectionately referred to as “Victoria”, a once fine, but now elderly and neglected locomotive.  Her coach, abandoned as unserviceable, seems of equal antiquity.

 

I include a couple of shots of the train in the film.  Courtesy of Dzine, I reproduce his sketch showing how the Jouef/Electrotren 0-6-0 can be adapted to represent “Victoria”.  This model, regurgitated in several guises, is in essence an HO model of a locomotive in Spanish service.  Courtesy of Edwadian, I include a picture of his Electrotren 0-6-0 along with an old Electrotren veranda coach (also Spanish) that bears a striking superficial similarity to the coach used in the film.  Finally, there is now a backless cab version of the locomotive, bringing it even closer to the locomotives used in the film.

 

Thus, if modelling in OO or HO, these models provide a very good start.  I have chosen to adopt 3mm scale, however.  Moreover, it is probably fair to say that any such train undertaking such a journey at the period would almost certainly have looked nothing like the equipment used in the film!  So, in addition to researching the North Western Railway and the history and topography of the region, I have a further interesting challenge; to come up with an historically plausible version of Victoria and her train!

[KeithHC]

At least it would be quite easy to visit some of the locations filmed. The majority of rail scenes where in fact filmed in Spain on the Sierra Nevada using an Iberian gauge Kerr Stuart loco.

 

Keith HC

[Edwardian]

Mad Carew, thank you for more entertaining and educational posts. I realise that you are ploughing something of a lone furrow, but please keep up the good work!

 

I realise that this is a bit redundant for you, because you are now looking to model in 3mm scale, but, reference DZine's article, I have a feeling that Mike Pett's figures are closer to 1/72nd than to 1/76, and, so, might hold their own against HaT Industrie plastic war-games figures. If someone went for the Electrotren option, 16.5mm track in 4mm scale could be an over-gauge representation of metre gauge rather than an under-gauge representation of Indian broad gauge (especially since I understand the trains shot in India were metre gauge, not broad gauge), and, in fact, one would be modelling in the (slightly) larger 1/72nd scale (no, I haven't worked out what metre gauge would be in 1/72nd scale, just that it would make 16.5mm track fractionally less inaccurate!).   So, still plenty of mileage for the 4mm scale(ish)modeller in Paul Lunn's concept.

 

Now, I have some HaT figures (somewhere) and if I can bring them together with the Pett figures, I can post a shot for the benefit of anyone who might try Paul Lunn's ideas out in 4mm -1/76.

 

I even have some Indian troops in 1/72nd, intended for deployment against the Ottomans in Mesopotamia or Arabia and the Germans in East Africa in WW1.  I see these regions are within you areas of interest too.  Fancy the Hejaz railway next?  It may interest you to know that, on "dress up as a famous Briton day" last week, we sent our daughter to school dressed as Gertrude Bell!

 

My HaT Indians are WW1 period figures rather than the "colonial" set mentioned by you and in Paul Lunn's article.  BTW, I wonder which set would best suit 1905?  Anyway, like you, I have swapped heads so that, in my case, I have a Sikh regiment of WW1 Indian infantry.  Unlike my 1914 French and Germans, these are unpainted, but that won't matter for size comparison shots.

 

One of the reasons I never did anything with the WW1 HaT figures, BTW, was that HaT (notoriously slow and uncertain in its release programme (sound familiar?)) has yet to produce its British infantry in tropical dress (Wolesley helmet, like Captain Scott's!).  I mention this because, these will doubtless be released in due course and would help with any British troops and British officers in Indian service. 

 

Anyway, the purpose of the comparison would be to see if there was a source for European civilians compatible with the war-games figures.  Mike Pett has an Edwardian gentleman raising his hat to 2 (vaguely) Edwardian ladies.  His boater could easily be swapped for a panama or a topee.

 

Indian civilians may be more difficult, but you might get somewhere converting HaT's African porters, and, of course, the soldiers give you a source of turbaned heads. 

 

Pathans are your hardest in1/72nd.  Only 15 or so of the box of excellent Esci Muslim warriors are NWF as opposed to Sudan and I'm afraid I don't rate the Red Box set.  The Esci set is unavailable in any case.

 

You may be correct to conclude that the choice of military figures is greater in 15mm scale, and the availability of suitable civilians hardly much worse than it is in 1/72nd, but I think there is enough for the determined 1/76-1/72nd modeller to give it a go!

[Mad Carew]

So, Edwardian, we may have mirror forces of Indian infantry.  I read somewhere that you can use the Victorian colonial set for WW1, but probably not visa versa.  I will have to get mine out and have a squint.

 

Regarding the Indian Army, I read that one of the post-Mutiny precautions was to ensure that the British Army battalions stationed in India always had a rifle more advanced than that issued to the sepoys in the Indian Army.  So, by the late 1890s, the Indian troops had Martini-Henrys, but the British had Lee Metford, forerunner of the Lee Enfield, a magazine rifle capable of a greater rate of fire.  I wonder if you can spot a bolt-action magazine rifle in 15mm scale!  probably!

 

I was planning a 'Part 2' post concerning my attempts to find an historically plausible alternative for the train in North West Frontier, but your post prompts me to post a sort of 'Part 1(a)'

 

Let's call it a 1/72nd scale layout using 16.5mm gauge track.  I believe there are 39.37 inches to the metre. I further understand that 1/72nd scale equates to one sixth of an inch representing one foot, but as inches divide into eighths, I find that confusing!  It does also mean, I think, that 1 inch = 6 feet. 

 

Now I do know that 1 inch = 25.4mm, so, whereas 6 feet in 4mm or 1/76 scale is 24mm, 6 feet in 1.72nd is 25.4mm.  

 

If all of that is correct (!), 1/72nd scale is 4.233 recurring mm to 1 foot!  16.5mm divided by 4.233 = 3.897.  Call that 3.9 feet, as I am getting rather tired. 

 

I think this all means that 16.5mm in 1/72nd scale = 46.8 inches, as opposed to the 39.37 inches of metre gauge.  So, the track would be 7.43 scale inches too wide.

 

My conclusion?  Metre gauge in 1/72nd using 16.5mm track results in the gauge being too wide by about 7 inches, or, put another way, over gauge to about the same extent that 16.5mm is under gauge for standard gauge in 1/76!

 

So, it is not, as you suggest, too much of a compromise to try a metre gauge train in 1/72nd scale with OO/HO track, thus allowing you to utilise the Electrotren equipment. 

 

Now, you could model the railway as shot in India.  I have great difficulty in accepting that the 300 mile flight to Kalapur could be on anything other than the North Western railway's Indian broad gauge metals, but there were metre gauge systems in the North West Frontier Province, Kohat to Thal for one.  A standard item of metre gauge motive power seems to be the 4-60 like the one pulling the ill-fated refugee train.

 

 

[Edwardian]

Wonderful shots, there, Mad Carew.  I notice the faux castle tower at Hangu(?) station disguising the water tower (centre picture), but the very real rifle embrasures in the booking hall!  Dangerous country, evidently.

 

And why is there a flat-bed truck at the front of that train - for a maxim !?! 

 

EDIT: Perhaps protecting the water tower - look what happened to the one in the film!

Edited March 15, 2016 by Edwardian

[Mad Carew]

Indeed, dangerous country.  The middle picture is of a station called Hangu.  The right hand is, I think, of Thal.  I am not sure the line was there in 1897, but I think it was by 1905; a lot of the railways in this area where military in inspiration, so went hand in hand with the growing need to campaign in the region.  The Khojak tunnel line in Baluchistan, for instance, was completed in 1891.  The line to Kohat is not shown in the maps in Frontier Ablaze.

 

I read that the great conflagration on the Frontier of 1897 began, not with the murder of a local ruler, but with the massacre of a British column in Waziristan.  They had gone to enforce compensation from a tribe for their murder of a "Hindu clerk" the year before.  They were a strong party and armed, but were given hospitality (which generally confers guest-immunity among Pathans), then attacked.

 

The interesting point to note, in relation to the film, is that the British assumed that this was an isolated local incident and had no idea that there was shortly to be a mass rising of the, normally feuding, tribes.  In the film, Lauran Bacall's character is roundly patronised by a somewhat complacent officer when she suggests this is the start of a widespread rising.

 

Yes, Edwardian, the German-built and equipped Ottoman railways would be a great subject, as too would be the light military railways laid by the British in the Eastern Theatre in WW1.

 

I am, by the way, sticking to my 3mm scale broad gauge theme (with a metre gauge feeder, hopefully).  I had wanted merely to continue to explore the possibilities suggested by Paul Lunn's article, one of which is probably (as you suggest) a  1/72nd layout of a nominally metre gauge line in the NWF using OO/HO equipment and HaT soldiery.  

 

I don't know why I did not focus on this combination, but, then, I think my layout needs to be of the broad gauge system, and for the reasons already set out, I think 3mm scale will be the most practical option for me.  It would be a shame not to see Mr Lunn's train in the flesh, however.

 

Given your evident interests, and your kind support of this project, I wonder that you don't give that a go?

Edited March 15, 2016 by Mad Carew

[Edwardian]

Don't tempt me; my plate is rather small and over-full at the moment!  Someone should do it, though!

 

I will try to dig out the HaT soldiers (somewhere in a box in a shed and doubtless at the bottom of the pile), and show them next to my Mike Pett civilian, who is to hand.

 

EDIT: Also, my Electrotren 0-6-0T is earmarked to conversion to a UK prototype for Castle aching, so she won't be posing as Victoria!

Edited March 15, 2016 by Edwardian

[Edwardian]

Here we are (second box down and top of the box)!

 

These are HaT WW1 figures, but, I believe they are of a size and style with the HaT Colonial Indian Infantry and Highlanders.  You will readily see that Mike Pett's civilian is easily tall enough to mix it with 1/72nd war-games figures, indeed, may even bee a little too big.  He does not at all fit with Andrew Stadden's scrupulously 1/76 fellow civilian.

 

What surprised me is how HaT's 1/72nd figures appear closer in height to the Andrew Stadden figure than they do to the Mike Pett figure.  The heft, as, I believe, war-gamers have it, is noticeably greater in the HaT figures than with the Stadden figure.   

Edited March 15, 2016 by Edwardian

[Mad Carew]

Edwardian, that is both interesting and extremely helpful to anyone contemplating the OO/HO option, much appreciated.

 

 

 

 

 

The Te-Rain – Part 2, “Now Victoria’s a wonderful old engine…” Or, ‘How do you solve a problem like Victoria?’

 

I include some pictures of the film, which are necessary to illustrate my research.  These are taken with my camera pointed at my computer screen, which is showing a, differently titled, version of NWF which is free to view on You Tube.  I assume, therefore, that I am not transgressing.

 

Although regarded as nowadays “no good except for shunting”, her driver, Gupta, has boundless confidence in Victoria:

 

“What is 300 miles to this engine?”

 

“You know what she used to do in the Karachi run?  Two times in one week!  One week, two times!”

 

“Yes”, replies Scott, “but how many years ago?”

 

Victoria is named the Empress of India.  To me this suggests that the locomotive was brought into service in or shortly after 1876, when Queen Victoria assumed that title. Although it is always possible that an older engine was renamed, I think it likely the proud Victorians would have bestowed the name upon their newest and flashiest locomotive.  So, this relic is, by 1905, barely 30 years old.  Whereas an express passenger type of that age might have been downgraded in that time, 30 years is no great age for a utilitarian 0-6-0T; look at the Brighton Terriers, stalwarts from the 1870s.

 

Here we come to one of the film’s essential railway improbabilities, that this humble 0-6-0T is a neglected relic with a once glorious past.  

 

If ‘Haserabad’ is, indeed, a frontier garrison town like Peshawar, the “Karachi run” would be quite a feat.  The Khyber Mail runs between these two places, a route by rail of 1,069 miles.  I don’t see a diminutive 0-6-0T of any age or gauge on such a service. 

 

A much more likely candidate for a prototypical ‘Victoria’, I suggest, would be one of the Broad Gauge 0-4-2 tender engines of the 1860s-1870s that the NWR inherited from the Scinde, Punjab & Delhi Railway Company.  But, we will return to the Broad Gauge options, after first considering Metre Gauge.

 

 

[autocoach]

Fascinating....

 

My Great-Uncle Billy was the Sargent-Major of a British regiment in the NW frontier in the 1930's and survived an ambush of a mechanized column by the Afghans. 

[Mad Carew]

Well, respect for your Great Uncle Billy, from what I'm reading warfare on the NWF in any era was hard and dangerous and it was not just those with two thousand pound educations that succumbed to the 10-rupee jezail; a number of British regular battalions saw hard service in the decade before WW1, which rather belies the Blackadder notion of an army that had only faced sharpened fruit.  That's not to mention the Boers, of course ...

 

Now, I must not neglect Victoria ....

 

 

[Mad Carew]

The Te-Rain – Part 3a, Metre Gauge?

 

I again include some pictures of the film, which are necessary to illustrate my research.  These are taken with my camera pointed at my computer screen and, so, the quality is awful!

 

As Paul/Dzine pointed out in his article, in fact, Victoria starts in Spain, first seen on shed at Haserabad, which was in fact the RENFE shed at Guadix, Spain.

 

No sooner than she gets up steam, however, and she is at an unidentified location in India.  Haserbad station appears to be an Indian location.  It features what looks to be a metre gauge railway.  We first see the line in daylight as the last train departs with its ill-fated passengers and crew.

 

The night shot of the train being man-handled is logically the Spanish train, as we are here, I think, still at Guadix.  The night shots (not included below) of Victoria leaving Haserabad, will be of the Indian train. I assume that in the next shot we see the Indian metre gauge Victoria trundling into daylight, as she catches up with the refugee train at ‘Bhivandi Pura’,.  There are differences in both the locomotive and the timber work between the 2 shots. I am pretty sure the daylight shot is in India; look at the hills in the background of first 2 of the 3 Bhivandi Pura shots, the first showing the train and the second the station name board; the hills appear to match.

 

The station itself is certainly Indian, and Paul has identified it as on the line from Jaipur to Churu.  I assume this is metre gauge.  I am a poor judge of gauges, but the scenes look as if they could feature metre gauge track.  I found a list of stations on the line, on a website that suggests this line remains metre gauge (http://www.prokerala.com/travel/indian-railway/trains/jaipur-churu-meter-gauge-passenger-special-2715.html):

 

Jaipur; Dahar Ka Balaji; Nindhar Benar; Bhaton Ki Gali; Chomun Samod; Govindgarh Malk; Ringas Junction; Baori Thikria; Palsana; Goriya; Sikar Junction, a distance of some 123 miles.

 

The station ‘running in board’ at ‘Bhivandi Pura’ looks a lot like that at Nindhar Benar (see picture below),  and I suspect that it is (look at those same background hills!).  The station building resembles that at Ringas Junction (see http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-ringas-junction-railway-station-its-architecture-influenced-by-local-23745680.html) and I would say that it is an exact match.  The station building at Sikar Junction is in the same style, but looks to be larger.

 

It should be said that Jaipur is a fairish way from the North West Frontier Province, which is now in Pakistan. As the crow flies it is some 330 miles from, say, Lahore, 440 miles from the Pakistan border, and even more from the debatable land of the tribal agencies beyond the Indus river.  Indeed, I think Peshawar, the largest forward garrison town and the most likely model for ‘Haserabad’ is 745 miles from Jaipur.  It follows that the metre gauge Jaipur – Churu line is the film location, rather than the historical basis for the railway from ‘Haserabad’.  The Jaipur – Churu line might have been a northward extension of the metre gauge system built by the Rajputana State Railway starting in 1874 and running between Delhi and Jaipur.  The line was converted to broad gauge in the 1990s while the Churu line appears to have remained metre gauge.  According to good old Wiki, the Rajputana State Railway was the first railway company in India to build and operate metre gauge lines. Rajputana State Railway was merged into Rajputana-Malwa State Railway in 1882. In 1900, Rajputana Malwa State Railway was merged with the Bombay, Baroda and Central India Railway.

 

I won’t dwell on the Bhivandi Pura massacre scene, it is, as Paul notes, somewhat disturbing.  A film made in 1959, it surely reflected the harsh reality of Partition, when trains ran into stations full of slaughtered passengers.  From our point of view, the rolling stock is too modern to be of assistance in any event and, so, does not assist in the recreation of the NWF at the turn of the century. 

 

I have already made the point that I doubt a metre gauge line would run 300 miles from Haserabad, a garrison town like Peshawar, to Kalapur, a town at a more peaceable distance from the Frontier.  The Rajputana system may have been extensive, but I do not think there were such extensive metre gauge systems in the North West Frontier Province.

 

But, if we stick with Indian metre gauge, what might a real life Victoria and her old broken down coach have looked like?  

Edited March 15, 2016 by Mad Carew

[Edwardian]

Very interesting and some great detective work.

 

 

what might a real life Victoria and her old broken down coach have looked like?

 

Well, come on Man, don't keep us in suspense!

[Edwardian]

PS, I notice the locomotive on the refugee train looks rather like the one you pictured on the Kohat-Thal line.  No doubt this is a standard metre gauge type.  Looking at the still from the film, I think it might be a 4-4-0 rather than 4-6-0, and, if so, I reckon that your Kohat-Thal locomotive and your refugee train locomotive both resemble the outside framed metre gauge locomotive posted by Burgundy on page 1 of this thread (again, below).

 

I accept there are differences, look at the (steampipe?) casing on smoke box side.  It's there on the Kohat and 'Haserbad' locomotives, but not Burgundy's.  Another obvious difference is that the Kohat and Haserabad locomotives are outside cylindered.  Note the differences in the splashers, too. Boilers and boiler mountings are perhaps more likely than other differences to be found in locomotives of the same class.  Could it still be the same class that has been rebuilt at some stage, or, at least, a similar standard design?  Well, probably not the same class, the step down in the running plate to the cab seems to suggest that the Haserbad locomotive might have larger driving wheels than Burgundy's locomotive.  Still, there is a strong family resemblance between the two types, to say the least. 

 

Burgundy's locomotive is in Bombay, Baroda and Central India Railway livery, which perhaps suggests that this type did, indeed, run of the Rajputana metre gauge system where the India railway scenes were filmed?

 

Burgundy's engine:

Edited March 16, 2016 by Edwardian

[Dzine]

PS, I notice the locomotive on the refugee train looks rather like the one you pictured on the Kohat-Thal line.  No doubt this is a standard metre gauge type.  Looking at the still from the film, I think it might be a 4-4-0 rather than 4-6-0, and, if so, I reckon that your Kohat-Thal locomotive and your refugee train locomotive both resemble the outside framed metre gauge locomotive posted by Burgundy on page 1 of this thread (again, below).

 

I accept there are differences, look at the (steampipe?) casing on smoke box side.  It's there on the Kohat and 'Haserbad' locomotives, but not Burgundy's.  Another obvious difference is that the Kohat and Haserabad locomotives are outside cylindered.  Note the differences in the splashers, too. Boilers and boiler mountings are perhaps more likely than other differences to be found in locomotives of the same class.  Could it still be the same class that has been rebuilt at some stage, or, at least, a similar standard design?  Well, probably not the same class, the step down in the running plate to the cab seems to suggest that the Haserbad locomotive might have larger driving wheels than Burgundy's locomotive.  Still, there is a strong family resemblance between the two types, to say the least. 

 

Burgundy's locomotive is in Bombay, Baroda and Central India Railway livery, which perhaps suggests that this type did, indeed, run of the Rajputana metre gauge system where the India railway scenes were filmed?

 

Burgundy's engine:

Hi Edwardian, there are clear reliable records of the loco and these are listed in the article, do you have/want a copy, I can send you same. Kind regards Paul

[Dzine]

The Te-Rain – Part 3a, Metre Gauge?

 

I again include some pictures of the film, which are necessary to illustrate my research.  These are taken with my camera pointed at my computer screen and, so, the quality is awful!

 

As Paul/Dzine pointed out in his article, in fact, Victoria starts in Spain, first seen on shed at Haserabad, which was in fact the RENFE shed at Guadix, Spain.

 

No sooner than she gets up steam, however, and she is at an unidentified location in India.  Haserbad station appears to be an Indian location.  It features what looks to be a metre gauge railway.  We first see the line in daylight as the last train departs with its ill-fated passengers and crew.

 

The night shot of the train being man-handled is logically the Spanish train, as we are here, I think, still at Guadix.  The night shots (not included below) of Victoria leaving Haserabad, will be of the Indian train. I assume that in the next shot we see the Indian metre gauge Victoria trundling into daylight, as she catches up with the refugee train at ‘Bhivandi Pura’,.  There are differences in both the locomotive and the timber work between the 2 shots. I am pretty sure the daylight shot is in India; look at the hills in the background of first 2 of the 3 Bhivandi Pura shots, the first showing the train and the second the station name board; the hills appear to match.

 

The station itself is certainly Indian, and Paul has identified it as on the line from Jaipur to Churu.  I assume this is metre gauge.  I am a poor judge of gauges, but the scenes look as if they could feature metre gauge track.  I found a list of stations on the line, on a website that suggests this line remains metre gauge (http://www.prokerala.com/travel/indian-railway/trains/jaipur-churu-meter-gauge-passenger-special-2715.html):

 

Jaipur; Dahar Ka Balaji; Nindhar Benar; Bhaton Ki Gali; Chomun Samod; Govindgarh Malk; Ringas Junction; Baori Thikria; Palsana; Goriya; Sikar Junction, a distance of some 123 miles.

 

The station ‘running in board’ at ‘Bhivandi Pura’ looks a lot like that at Nindhar Benar (see picture below),  and I suspect that it is (look at those same background hills!).  The station building resembles that at Ringas Junction (see http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-ringas-junction-railway-station-its-architecture-influenced-by-local-23745680.html) and I would say that it is an exact match.  The station building at Sikar Junction is in the same style, but looks to be larger.

 

It should be said that Jaipur is a fairish way from the North West Frontier Province, which is now in Pakistan. As the crow flies it is some 330 miles from, say, Lahore, 440 miles from the Pakistan border, and even more from the debatable land of the tribal agencies beyond the Indus river.  Indeed, I think Peshawar, the largest forward garrison town and the most likely model for ‘Haserabad’ is 745 miles from Jaipur.  It follows that the metre gauge Jaipur – Churu line is the film location, rather than the historical basis for the railway from ‘Haserabad’.  The Jaipur – Churu line might have been a northward extension of the metre gauge system built by the Rajputana State Railway starting in 1874 and running between Delhi and Jaipur.  The line was converted to broad gauge in the 1990s while the Churu line appears to have remained metre gauge.  According to good old Wiki, the Rajputana State Railway was the first railway company in India to build and operate metre gauge lines. Rajputana State Railway was merged into Rajputana-Malwa State Railway in 1882. In 1900, Rajputana Malwa State Railway was merged with the Bombay, Baroda and Central India Railway.

 

I won’t dwell on the Bhivandi Pura massacre scene, it is, as Paul notes, somewhat disturbing.  A film made in 1959, it surely reflected the harsh reality of Partition, when trains ran into stations full of slaughtered passengers.  From our point of view, the rolling stock is too modern to be of assistance in any event and, so, does not assist in the recreation of the NWF at the turn of the century. 

 

I have already made the point that I doubt a metre gauge line would run 300 miles from Haserabad, a garrison town like Peshawar, to Kalapur, a town at a more peaceable distance from the Frontier.  The Rajputana system may have been extensive, but I do not think there were such extensive metre gauge systems in the North West Frontier Province.

 

But, if we stick with Indian metre gauge, what might a real life Victoria and her old broken down coach have looked like?  

Fab stuff Mad Carew.  Steve Chibnalls book talks about the cast and crew coping with sickness and the elements on location and if I remember correctly the journey for all of them from hotel in Jaipur to location was 20 odd miles, making Nindar Benar very possible and yes the nearby hills are spot-on.  Kind regards Paul

[Edwardian]

Thanks, Dzine.  Well, I, too, very much enjoyed your article and that Mad Carew, he's sucking me in and, I admit, my curiosity is piqued.

 

I honeymooned in Rajasthan (my wife did, too, BTW), and that Ringas Junction is such an attractive structure.  I am thinking that I leave 3mm scale, the NWF and Indian Broad Gauge to MC, but, another film spin off might be to model the Jaipur-Churu line (specifically that station), in 4mm using 12mm gauge track, but include some "pre-grouping" era/Victorian splendour with Rajputana Malwa State Railway and Bombay, Baroda and Central India Railway liveried locos.

 

So, yes, I would be happy to receive further information, thanks.  Please feel free to PM me.

 

(Oh no, what have I let myself in for?!?)

Edited March 17, 2016 by Edwardian

[scouser]

I really like this, such wonderful imaginative thinking. As others have aready said it is drawing me in also.

[Mad Carew]

Dzine, I too would be interested to learn more of the Indian locomotives in the film.

 

Edwardian - you go for it!  I'd love to see you model Ringas Junction station building. 

 

Scouser - Welcome aboard! I find this new and exciting territory

 

Thinking on the Rajasthan connection, I had always been pretty sceptical about the railway leaving Haserabad via ancient Indian walls, particularly using an old gateway; a modern British gateway in old Indian fortification is perhaps not such a stretch.

 

The filmmakers could take some justification from the following scene near Udaipur:

Edited March 17, 2016 by Mad Carew