Mad Carew

I daresay these things will take time, but I think the decades' long focus on the last decade or so of steam is bound to run out of steam sooner or later and those manufacturers prepared to prepare for tapping other markets, like-pre-grouping, have a great opportunity. It is a shame that so much effort goes on scanning inaccurate preserved locomotives and reproducing the same anomalies only smaller! For me there is no point in an accurate model of an inaccurate reconstruction, but, hey, that's just me! It remains to be see if there turn out to be more models of the Bluebell than of the Lyme Regis branch!

Great picture of the ex-Abt. system loco in 1890 - I am tempted to interpret that lining as LNWR! A fascinating read. Thank you again. It seems it took the NWR several goes at finding suitable motive power for the Bolan Pas line. After the Abt, according to Hughes, they had a pair of Neilson 0-6-0s of 1888 with small wheels and backed onto a shared tender. Next, and more satisfactory, seem to have been 0-8-0ST, which also appear to have been Neilson products of 1888, and of which I have no picture, but which Hughes says were similar to the Ghat engines of the GIPR. These were followed in 1896 by Neilson 2-8-2Ts (TA Class), for which, again, I have no picture. Finally, according to Hughes in 1900, came the 'Anglo-American' TAA Class 2-8-2Ts, built by the Pittsburgh Locomotive Works, but using some British parts (picture below).

Fascinating stuff, many thanks

Perfect coach! First-Second composite? Interesting that the colour coding has gone. Second was generally green, and I think First was white. Third was generally dark red, so perhaps those Midland Red coaches were All Thirds? The colour illustration is a south Indian metre gauge coach, but I understand the colours were fairly standard throughout India, as a seating guide for the illiterate. Pale coloured coaches seem to be in evidence on the NWR earlier than 1904, too. Below are some pictures I've found. Shela Bagh station, showing the southern portal of the Khojak Tunnel, surely is a 'must-model' scene. Some coaches look pale sided, others, not so sure. I would guess this is 1890s. The closer view is said to be 1895. The close up is of a VIP special at Quetta, 1894. You posted the Attock Bridge shot, also apparently dated 1895 - are the train coaches of different colours or is it just dirt? In about 1904-5, A M Bell of the Great Indian Peninsular Railway introduced coaches constructed with non-conducting material inserted between the inner and outer layers of the coach sides and roofs. By these means he was able to dispense with the need for the overhanging wooden sun-shades or awnings. He also dispensed with the class colour coding and went with a rather british two-tone livery, darker lower panels and lined pale upper panels. Other railways followed suit and I include a picture of two-tone NWR coaches without awnings. Pictures in the 1910s start to show NWR trains without awnings. Inclidently, one is tempted to view the later NWR coaches as even more LNWR-like given their livery! Your 4-wheel coach is, perhaps, on the cusp. The class colours appear to have gone (perhaps they never held sway on the NWR?) but at the awnings are still in use.

Great progress and particularly like the idea of the gateway. Rather more in-period than your German Car, would be some Buffs, though they don't look that overlarge to me:

Simon, thank you for these excellent links and for the PM. All very greatly appreciated. It all starts to make sense, especially as I realised that I had seen one of these before!

Some great stuff to come back to, thanks for the contributions. I have made no progress, having been otherwise engaged for the last week. I particularly want to pick up on nomisd's comment about the triangle (which is presumably his preferred way of reversing his name!). I would love to incorporate such a prototypical feature, but being unfamiliar with the practice, I wonder where I might come across a plan showing how matters were arranged?

Well, Nomisd, I must thank you for saving me a lot of time and trouble. I knew that, starting from a base position of ignorance this would be a long climb to the heights of enlightenment, and you've certainly given me a leg up. I will eventually try to get the MG and NG volumes of Hughes, but, for now, safe to say that MG is out! If I want a NG feeder, I have to think about how to model 2'6" gauge in 3mm scale! It might have to be 6mm gauge track, as the nearest I could get!

The Te-Rain – Part 3b, Metre Gauge? I have put off consideration of an 1870s metre gauge train because I do not have Hugh Hughes’s metre gauge volume. But, some initial thoughts occur. Well, part of the problem is that the metre gauge lines of the NWF probably did not exist in the 1870s. Because I do not yet have a copy of Hugh Hughes’ survey of metre gauge locomotives 1850-1940, I have very limited knowledge of the types and dates in service. For instance, the Kohat – Hangu - Thal line pictured earlier, was, I guess built around the turn of the Century after the 1897-98 Pathan revolt. That axis was marked by a road and used by the Tirah field force, indeed, British troops had a very long approach march, as the Broad Gauge system had not reached Kohat at that time. I have a photograph of one of the line’s original metre gauge locos (below), but this hardly helps with a grand old lady like Victoria. I suggest, therefore, that any 1870s metre gauge locomotive and rolling stock of that era would have to rely upon the fiction of having been transferred from elsewhere in the sub-continent.

Edwardian - I am sorry to hear that you are unwell, best wishes for a full and speedy recovery. Please get back to the modelling, as I am very much enjoying your village taking shape! I have sent you a PM re Bhivandi Pura/Nindhar Benar. Reply when ready.

Allegheny1600,welcome to the Durbar (and thanks for the 'likes', which are always appreciated). Do feel free to get sucked in by the way. Thanks to everyone for their continued interest and support. Now my post about the Jaipur-Churu line locations left a niggle. I could not see why the filmmakers would want to change location, I mean film the Bhivandi Pura name board at one location and the station building at another. Re-watching the scene, the action seems to track seamlessly from one to another. My conclusion was that the Alarmy stock photo was mis-captioned as Ringas Junction (http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-ringas-junction-railway-station-its-architecture-influenced-by-local-23745680.html) I looked up Ringas Junction. I know places change, but it is nothing like the location or locations used in the film. I once more failed to find any further pictures of Nindhar or Nindar Benar station showing the building, but I did look up the place on Google Maps and I am persuaded that this was the single location used for Bhivandi Pura. Look, if you will, at the shot of the soldiers approaching the name board. See the start of the passing loop in the background and what looks like the start of a siding to the right. Look at the shot looking back at the station as Victoria pulls away (sorry about all the corpses), and note the hills behind the station to the right. Look now if you will at the aerial shots. You can clearly see the layout of passing loop, trees one side, single platform on the other, with a building with a flat roof matching the layout of the one in the film. You can also see the hills behind the station. Back on the platform, you can even see the white object marking the wall bearing the station name. Now look at the faint black lines above the line and to the left of the station. Are those not the traces of the sidings, the connection to which we see in the film?

Dzine, I too would be interested to learn more of the Indian locomotives in the film. Edwardian - you go for it! I'd love to see you model Ringas Junction station building. Scouser - Welcome aboard! I find this new and exciting territory Thinking on the Rajasthan connection, I had always been pretty sceptical about the railway leaving Haserabad via ancient Indian walls, particularly using an old gateway; a modern British gateway in old Indian fortification is perhaps not such a stretch. The filmmakers could take some justification from the following scene near Udaipur:

The Te-Rain – Part 3a, Metre Gauge? I again include some pictures of the film, which are necessary to illustrate my research. These are taken with my camera pointed at my computer screen and, so, the quality is awful! As Paul/Dzine pointed out in his article, in fact, Victoria starts in Spain, first seen on shed at Haserabad, which was in fact the RENFE shed at Guadix, Spain. No sooner than she gets up steam, however, and she is at an unidentified location in India. Haserbad station appears to be an Indian location. It features what looks to be a metre gauge railway. We first see the line in daylight as the last train departs with its ill-fated passengers and crew. The night shot of the train being man-handled is logically the Spanish train, as we are here, I think, still at Guadix. The night shots (not included below) of Victoria leaving Haserabad, will be of the Indian train. I assume that in the next shot we see the Indian metre gauge Victoria trundling into daylight, as she catches up with the refugee train at ‘Bhivandi Pura’,. There are differences in both the locomotive and the timber work between the 2 shots. I am pretty sure the daylight shot is in India; look at the hills in the background of first 2 of the 3 Bhivandi Pura shots, the first showing the train and the second the station name board; the hills appear to match. The station itself is certainly Indian, and Paul has identified it as on the line from Jaipur to Churu. I assume this is metre gauge. I am a poor judge of gauges, but the scenes look as if they could feature metre gauge track. I found a list of stations on the line, on a website that suggests this line remains metre gauge (http://www.prokerala.com/travel/indian-railway/trains/jaipur-churu-meter-gauge-passenger-special-2715.html): Jaipur; Dahar Ka Balaji; Nindhar Benar; Bhaton Ki Gali; Chomun Samod; Govindgarh Malk; Ringas Junction; Baori Thikria; Palsana; Goriya; Sikar Junction, a distance of some 123 miles. The station ‘running in board’ at ‘Bhivandi Pura’ looks a lot like that at Nindhar Benar (see picture below), and I suspect that it is (look at those same background hills!). The station building resembles that at Ringas Junction (see http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-ringas-junction-railway-station-its-architecture-influenced-by-local-23745680.html) and I would say that it is an exact match. The station building at Sikar Junction is in the same style, but looks to be larger. It should be said that Jaipur is a fairish way from the North West Frontier Province, which is now in Pakistan. As the crow flies it is some 330 miles from, say, Lahore, 440 miles from the Pakistan border, and even more from the debatable land of the tribal agencies beyond the Indus river. Indeed, I think Peshawar, the largest forward garrison town and the most likely model for ‘Haserabad’ is 745 miles from Jaipur. It follows that the metre gauge Jaipur – Churu line is the film location, rather than the historical basis for the railway from ‘Haserabad’. The Jaipur – Churu line might have been a northward extension of the metre gauge system built by the Rajputana State Railway starting in 1874 and running between Delhi and Jaipur. The line was converted to broad gauge in the 1990s while the Churu line appears to have remained metre gauge. According to good old Wiki, the Rajputana State Railway was the first railway company in India to build and operate metre gauge lines. Rajputana State Railway was merged into Rajputana-Malwa State Railway in 1882. In 1900, Rajputana Malwa State Railway was merged with the Bombay, Baroda and Central India Railway. I won’t dwell on the Bhivandi Pura massacre scene, it is, as Paul notes, somewhat disturbing. A film made in 1959, it surely reflected the harsh reality of Partition, when trains ran into stations full of slaughtered passengers. From our point of view, the rolling stock is too modern to be of assistance in any event and, so, does not assist in the recreation of the NWF at the turn of the century. I have already made the point that I doubt a metre gauge line would run 300 miles from Haserabad, a garrison town like Peshawar, to Kalapur, a town at a more peaceable distance from the Frontier. The Rajputana system may have been extensive, but I do not think there were such extensive metre gauge systems in the North West Frontier Province. But, if we stick with Indian metre gauge, what might a real life Victoria and her old broken down coach have looked like?

Well, respect for your Great Uncle Billy, from what I'm reading warfare on the NWF in any era was hard and dangerous and it was not just those with two thousand pound educations that succumbed to the 10-rupee jezail; a number of British regular battalions saw hard service in the decade before WW1, which rather belies the Blackadder notion of an army that had only faced sharpened fruit. That's not to mention the Boers, of course ... Now, I must not neglect Victoria ....

Edwardian, that is both interesting and extremely helpful to anyone contemplating the OO/HO option, much appreciated. The Te-Rain – Part 2, “Now Victoria’s a wonderful old engine…” Or, ‘How do you solve a problem like Victoria?’ I include some pictures of the film, which are necessary to illustrate my research. These are taken with my camera pointed at my computer screen, which is showing a, differently titled, version of NWF which is free to view on You Tube. I assume, therefore, that I am not transgressing. Although regarded as nowadays “no good except for shunting”, her driver, Gupta, has boundless confidence in Victoria: “What is 300 miles to this engine?” “You know what she used to do in the Karachi run? Two times in one week! One week, two times!” “Yes”, replies Scott, “but how many years ago?” Victoria is named the Empress of India. To me this suggests that the locomotive was brought into service in or shortly after 1876, when Queen Victoria assumed that title. Although it is always possible that an older engine was renamed, I think it likely the proud Victorians would have bestowed the name upon their newest and flashiest locomotive. So, this relic is, by 1905, barely 30 years old. Whereas an express passenger type of that age might have been downgraded in that time, 30 years is no great age for a utilitarian 0-6-0T; look at the Brighton Terriers, stalwarts from the 1870s. Here we come to one of the film’s essential railway improbabilities, that this humble 0-6-0T is a neglected relic with a once glorious past. If ‘Haserabad’ is, indeed, a frontier garrison town like Peshawar, the “Karachi run” would be quite a feat. The Khyber Mail runs between these two places, a route by rail of 1,069 miles. I don’t see a diminutive 0-6-0T of any age or gauge on such a service. A much more likely candidate for a prototypical ‘Victoria’, I suggest, would be one of the Broad Gauge 0-4-2 tender engines of the 1860s-1870s that the NWR inherited from the Scinde, Punjab & Delhi Railway Company. But, we will return to the Broad Gauge options, after first considering Metre Gauge.

Indeed, dangerous country. The middle picture is of a station called Hangu. The right hand is, I think, of Thal. I am not sure the line was there in 1897, but I think it was by 1905; a lot of the railways in this area where military in inspiration, so went hand in hand with the growing need to campaign in the region. The Khojak tunnel line in Baluchistan, for instance, was completed in 1891. The line to Kohat is not shown in the maps in Frontier Ablaze. I read that the great conflagration on the Frontier of 1897 began, not with the murder of a local ruler, but with the massacre of a British column in Waziristan. They had gone to enforce compensation from a tribe for their murder of a "Hindu clerk" the year before. They were a strong party and armed, but were given hospitality (which generally confers guest-immunity among Pathans), then attacked. The interesting point to note, in relation to the film, is that the British assumed that this was an isolated local incident and had no idea that there was shortly to be a mass rising of the, normally feuding, tribes. In the film, Lauran Bacall's character is roundly patronised by a somewhat complacent officer when she suggests this is the start of a widespread rising. Yes, Edwardian, the German-built and equipped Ottoman railways would be a great subject, as too would be the light military railways laid by the British in the Eastern Theatre in WW1. I am, by the way, sticking to my 3mm scale broad gauge theme (with a metre gauge feeder, hopefully). I had wanted merely to continue to explore the possibilities suggested by Paul Lunn's article, one of which is probably (as you suggest) a 1/72nd layout of a nominally metre gauge line in the NWF using OO/HO equipment and HaT soldiery. I don't know why I did not focus on this combination, but, then, I think my layout needs to be of the broad gauge system, and for the reasons already set out, I think 3mm scale will be the most practical option for me. It would be a shame not to see Mr Lunn's train in the flesh, however. Given your evident interests, and your kind support of this project, I wonder that you don't give that a go?

So, Edwardian, we may have mirror forces of Indian infantry. I read somewhere that you can use the Victorian colonial set for WW1, but probably not visa versa. I will have to get mine out and have a squint. Regarding the Indian Army, I read that one of the post-Mutiny precautions was to ensure that the British Army battalions stationed in India always had a rifle more advanced than that issued to the sepoys in the Indian Army. So, by the late 1890s, the Indian troops had Martini-Henrys, but the British had Lee Metford, forerunner of the Lee Enfield, a magazine rifle capable of a greater rate of fire. I wonder if you can spot a bolt-action magazine rifle in 15mm scale! probably! I was planning a 'Part 2' post concerning my attempts to find an historically plausible alternative for the train in North West Frontier, but your post prompts me to post a sort of 'Part 1(a)' Let's call it a 1/72nd scale layout using 16.5mm gauge track. I believe there are 39.37 inches to the metre. I further understand that 1/72nd scale equates to one sixth of an inch representing one foot, but as inches divide into eighths, I find that confusing! It does also mean, I think, that 1 inch = 6 feet. Now I do know that 1 inch = 25.4mm, so, whereas 6 feet in 4mm or 1/76 scale is 24mm, 6 feet in 1.72nd is 25.4mm. If all of that is correct (!), 1/72nd scale is 4.233 recurring mm to 1 foot! 16.5mm divided by 4.233 = 3.897. Call that 3.9 feet, as I am getting rather tired. I think this all means that 16.5mm in 1/72nd scale = 46.8 inches, as opposed to the 39.37 inches of metre gauge. So, the track would be 7.43 scale inches too wide. My conclusion? Metre gauge in 1/72nd using 16.5mm track results in the gauge being too wide by about 7 inches, or, put another way, over gauge to about the same extent that 16.5mm is under gauge for standard gauge in 1/76! So, it is not, as you suggest, too much of a compromise to try a metre gauge train in 1/72nd scale with OO/HO track, thus allowing you to utilise the Electrotren equipment. Now, you could model the railway as shot in India. I have great difficulty in accepting that the 300 mile flight to Kalapur could be on anything other than the North Western railway's Indian broad gauge metals, but there were metre gauge systems in the North West Frontier Province, Kohat to Thal for one. A standard item of metre gauge motive power seems to be the 4-60 like the one pulling the ill-fated refugee train.

Honestly, it looks fine. When you have the layout set up, things may depend upon how controlled the viewpoints are, but if the photographs are representative of them, I think you will pull it off. I am toying with the idea 2mm scale barracks and cantonments at the rear of a 3mm scale scene, but I am going to separate that from the foreground with a wall. I won't have a line of buildings running front to rear in diminishing scale, which I think is quite a clever thing to have done. PS -thanks for the use of your photo of the Spanish Electrotren 0-6-0T and coach. Paul Lunn is quite right to identify this as a close match to the loco in the film, and the coach is uncannily similar.

The Te-Rain – Part 1, The Film “The Government has brought on us many taxes, but it gives us one good thing - the te-rain that joins friends and unites the anxious. A wonderful matter is the te-rain.” In many ways the Te-rain is the star of the 1959 film, North West Frontier. As Paul/Dzine pointed out in his article, the train starts out in India, running on metre gauge, and continues on a broader gauge in Spain, matters not hitherto noticed by Yours Truly. The locomotive, or rather, locomotives, depict the Empress of India, affectionately referred to as “Victoria”, a once fine, but now elderly and neglected locomotive. Her coach, abandoned as unserviceable, seems of equal antiquity. I include a couple of shots of the train in the film. Courtesy of Dzine, I reproduce his sketch showing how the Jouef/Electrotren 0-6-0 can be adapted to represent “Victoria”. This model, regurgitated in several guises, is in essence an HO model of a locomotive in Spanish service. Courtesy of Edwadian, I include a picture of his Electrotren 0-6-0 along with an old Electrotren veranda coach (also Spanish) that bears a striking superficial similarity to the coach used in the film. Finally, there is now a backless cab version of the locomotive, bringing it even closer to the locomotives used in the film. Thus, if modelling in OO or HO, these models provide a very good start. I have chosen to adopt 3mm scale, however. Moreover, it is probably fair to say that any such train undertaking such a journey at the period would almost certainly have looked nothing like the equipment used in the film! So, in addition to researching the North Western Railway and the history and topography of the region, I have a further interesting challenge; to come up with an historically plausible version of Victoria and her train!

Edwardian, you are too kind, thank you. I think if I can get to the stage of producing locomotives and rolling stock in 3mm scale/16.5mm gauge, the rest will be plain sailing, but there are research as well as modelling issues to be overcome. I want to keep nodding to the film, and I notice that, on your excellent Castle Aching thread, you post a picture of the Electrotren 0-6-0T that Dzine references in his article, paired with a coach remarkably similar to that used in the film! If I do a post about the train in the film, could I possibly borrow that image? Dzine, I would like to post a copy of the drawing of the train in your article, would that be possible?

Research continues - I did mention this would be a slow burn - with the arrival in the post of 2 books, Indian Locomotives, Part 1 - Broad Gauge 1851-1940, by Hugh Hughes (splendid name, humorous parents), and The Frontier Ablaze, The North-West Frontier Rising, 1897-98, by Michael Barthorp. Hughes's book is a comprehensive survey, and, thus, is unable to be very detailed, but it contains essential basic information. For the North Western Railway it even has locomotive allocations for 1889! I thought that I was to be modelling essentially British outline locomotives, and this is brought home at the opening of the book's preface; 94% of the locomotives put into service in India between 1851 and 1940 were built in Britain, with a further 2.5% assembled in India from parts manufactured in Britain. In many ways I am embarking upon a British outline pre-grouping model railway. The first of the BESA (British Engineering Standards Association) designs, introduced as standard across India's railways, were not introduced until 1904 (an 0-6-0 and a 4-4-0), so just squeeze into the period depicted by the North West Frontier film (1905). Some standardisation of designs was apparent even before then, however, in designs such as the H Class outside cylinder 4-4-0 and the L Class 4-6-0, found on several of the Indian state Railways, including the North Western. I now have a fairly good idea of the sorts of locomotives to choose, but as Hughes provides little more detail than coupled wheels diameter for the various types, there is still a long road ahead. Why Frontier Ablaze? Well, I had always intended to cover a wider period than just the year in which the film was set. I said that I wanted to depict the NWR c.1896-1905, a decade. One of the reasons is that there were a number of NWF campaigns and expeditions from 1895, though nothing on this scale around the 1905 period. The premise of the film, a large-scale rising coming about because a number of Muslim Pathan tribes join forces, was the stuff of nightmares for the British. It did not happen in 1905, but it did happen in 1897. The scenario in the film is really the British fear of a repeat of the 1897 rising. The fly leaf of the book sums it up: In June 1897 the ambush of a British-officered column by Madda Khel Waziris marked the outbreak of the greatest Indian frontier war ever fought by the British Raj. Goaded by their priests, nearly all the Pathan tribes rose as one, across 200 miles of some of the worst campaigning country on earth. It would take eight months, and more than 60 battalions supported by cavalry, artillery and engineers, to put down the great Pathan rising; and the enemy remained uncowed and deadly dangerous to the end. Poor old Private Widdle!

On the complex subject of turbans, or puggarees, I have found a very useful site: http://www.militarysunhelmets.com/2013/turbans-of-the-indian-army It quotes from Major R. Money Barnes, Military Uniforms of Britain & The Empire, (1960): “The winding of military puggarees had become a skilled accomplishment and, throughout the Indian Army, there must have been scores of different styles, each instantly recognizable by those who knew them. The variety of patterns in one regiment was due to the class-company system, which dated from after the mutiny of the Bengal Army in 1857.” Muslims are easily distinguishable by the cone-like Khulla (kulla). I seem to recall the troops in the NWF film wearing kullas; this is certainly the case with Scott's Guides.

Am re-thinking the scale! Figures might seem a minor factor, but could be one of the more difficult things to produce from scratch. HaT 1/72nd military figures are really a little too big. There would loom over the Andrew Stadden figures, which only give me European civilians. There are some 20mm scale white metal war games figures, but some of these are fairly old ranges and a bit crude. Then there is the gauge. Having received quite a bit of helpful advice, I am feeling a little less daunted by the prospect of re-gauging OO models. But I think the task of building track, even if successful, would make the whole process too slow. The concept demands a reasonably long run of track and several stations; it's not your average BLT. That brings forth considerations of space. The layout space is not settled, but it is clear that a smaller scale will help me to fit more of what I want in. I am revisiting the 3mm scale option. There is, I understand, some trade support for scenic accessories, and I believe that unpainted plastic figures are readily available in 1/100 scale, as this is a scale used for architectural models. Armed with a scalpel and putty, I am sure I could do something with these. Further, there are a number of 15mm scale war games ranges that ought also to be compatible. Track would be ready to lay (hurray!). I would imagine that the Peco Code 75 HO track would be fine. The rail might be a bit heavy for the Indian rails in a smaller scale, but nothing too gross, and I am guessing that Peco's chosen sleeper length and spacing, such a bane for 4mm modellers, would not be so bad for 3mm scale broad gauge. The sleepers probably won't be that visible anyway. It may be possible to find small-wheeled RTR locomotives that could be rebuilt to 3mm scale. My major concern is that the smaller scale bodies might not accommodate the motors of most 4mm scale RTR bodies, I need to get some locomotive drawings and scale them accordingly. I cannot judge this as I find it difficult to think in an unfamiliar and smaller scale. Finally, the fact that everything will be 3/4s normal length means that I can be more ambitious. Perhaps there is scope for a plan that would encompass all my 'must-have' features in 3mm scale?

Lez.Z, thanks. As for your question, I have no idea, but give the challenges of hand-built track and re-gauging locomotives, I suspect that's the least of my worries!

Paul, thank you for your interest. I was hoping you would come and stick around, as this is, really, all your fault! I have to take this steady, there is still so much I just don't know. Fortunately, it is a fictional version of the NWF, so anything I get wrong, or which is atypical, may be excused on that basis. Part of the fun is learning about the various railway companies in India at the time. The company operating in the North West Frontier Province was the North Western Railway. Eric, I believe that lovely little 0-6-2T dates from 1904 or thereabouts. I am not at all sure whether it would have travelled to the frontier outposts of the NWR, but, in my world it certainly could. What did the NWR look like? Well, it had broadly British outline locos, the obvious visual difference being the cabs, and it had quite a tradition of sourcing locomotives from the Vulcan Foundry. Do general arrangement drawing exists for these I wonder? Before the advent of standard designs across Indian railways during the 1900s, Vulcan started supplying the NWR in the 1890s, and I am quite interested in these early orders. I read that the NWR modelled itself on the LNWR! From circa 1904, if my information is correct, the NWR adopted lined black for its locomotives. Another Indian company apparently closely followed LBSC livery! In 1905, I suspect that the majority of locomotives still wore the older liver, whatever that was (!), but I could have both liveries represented. I have seen preserved locomotives lettered NWR and one in a constituent company livery that are green, so I wonder if pre-1904 livery was green? Coaches in 1905 would have presented a very great contrast to British outline coaches. There were bogie coaches, apparently common at least as far back as the 1890s, and probably quite a few non-bogie coaches still around. All had the characteristic wooden sun shades, like a deep canopy built out from the top of the coach sides. The gap between the coach side and the sun shade was evidently deep enough to allow compartment doors to open inside it. Cut outs at door height seem to have been reserved for the guard, perhaps so he could lean out and look up and down the train. The passengers had to duck under the boarding to exit the coach. Please see the two trains pictured in my initial post. I have no information on coach liveries for this period, but, perhaps, it could be said that there were no liveries up to c.1905. Suppose the framing of the doors and windows and the sun-shades were in a varnished wood, this would leave just the lower body panels and these were typically, and throughout India, painted different colours to denote the different classes, as an aid to the illiterate. Third class was usually white. Second class green. First class seems to have differed according ot the company; I have seen references to red, but also to ochre. I don't know the shade the NWR favoured for first class. In one of the pictures in my initial post is a bogie coach with 2 different colours on the lower panels. It was in 1905 that a revolution in Indian passenger coach design appears to have taken place. That year the Great Indian Peninsular Railway introduced coaches without the sun shades, using materials integral to the upper coach body to achieve the desired effect. They also abandoned the class colour code. This allowed Indian coaches to look much more like contemporary British coaches, including characteristic beading and two-tone livery. I have seen pictures of the NWR in the 1910s with such coaches, and it is tempting to suppose they wore plum and spilt milk! These British-style coaches are too late for our period, so we will stick to the sun-shade coaches common at the turn of the century. I think what I must do is continue to collate information on the subject, while firming up my growing list of extravagant 'must-have' elements. To combine these I may well need to enlist the expertise of Mr Paul Lunn (Paul, I hope your rates are reasonable!). I would like to do so, as I really feel that this is as much his project as mine. As I said, it's certainly his fault! PS: Metre Gauge armoured train - that is tempting!