Jouef tender drive motor bogie

[Pacific231G]

I'm having a bit of a challenge with a (pre Hornby) Jouef tender drive. Some time ago I acquired for a song a 241P whose tender had fallen to earth and so needs a new body and buffer but seems to be mechanically sound. The loco is fine but I'd like to refurbish the tender and have a new body available for it.

 

Apart from anything else I have a number of locos from this era and the damaged tender gives me something to practice on that wouldn't be a total disaster if it  all went 'orribly wrong.

 

I took it out to work on a few days ago and noticed that the front pair of driven wheels were missing their traction tyres and so running very badly on the track. I somehow managed to work the wheels out of the bogie and put new traction tyres on them but since then have been completely unable to get the axle back in. The problem is that the axle ends  fit into bearing holes in the metal frames of the bogie that are firmly fixed to the bogie's plastic chassis. The wheels have to be dropped in vertically as otherwise their flanges foul the slots they fit into so both frames have to be pulled apart simultaneously in order for axles ends to be dropped between them. I can't find any way of doing this and wonder either if Jouef dealers had some special tool to pull the frames apart or the bogies were designed to be assembled in the factory and replaced as a complete unit so never needing to be reassembled.

 

I'm not too worried about this bogie but all my Jouef tender locos have very similar motor bogies and sooner or later they too will need new traction tyres and eventually I want to turn down the flanges.

 

These photos of the 241P bogie and a very similar 231K bogie with both wheel sets in place should illustrate the problem.

 

I've tried prying the frames apart manually but the pressure needed on both sides is simply too great for my strength and in any case I don't have three hands.The place where you'd logically apply pressure is exactly where you need the wheel set to be to be dropped in.

What is really frustrating is that the axles on the unpowered bogie which carries the pckups are held in place by a keeper plate that can simply be unscrewed.

Any ideas? I can't be the only person here using these locos so someone else must have faced and with any luck solved this problem.

Edited March 26, 2016 by Pacific231G

[Pacific231G]

Well I have managed to get the motor bogie back together and I didn't even lose the circlip that holds the vertical shaft in place. The tender now trundles up and down my layout as well as any Jouef motive power of its age though it still needs some cosmetic work on one of the buffers. For anyone else facing the same challenge I found this video clip from IPROD-HO that gave me the trick 

http://www.iprod-ho.com/pages/trucs-et-astuces/demonter-un-essieux-moteur-jouef.html

 

It still took me a while to do it but the method is to insert a screwdriver blade between the wheel and the metal frame and to get the non gear end of the axle back in its bearing first (To remove the axle you free the gear end first) The knack, which it took me a few goes to get right, is to twist the blade of the screwdriver (2.5-3mm)  to push the frame out of the way. Jouef wheels from that era are a tight press fit on their axles and the pressure on the wheel may shift it out of gauge so you do need to keep checking the back to back. 

 

The only catch in all this is that it may well end up costing me quite a lot. That's because I've now discovered  IPROD-HO who make remotorising kits for pre-Hornby Jouef locos and autorails. The prospect of one of my 141Ps gliding rather than grinding out of the station is very tempting.

Edited March 27, 2016 by Pacific231G

[Allegheny1600]

Hi David,

Glad you got it sorted.

I well remember those drive units from my early 80's "French" days - in fact, I remember being quite happy they drove on four axles, unlike the Hornby equals.

Cheers,

John.

[Joseph_Pestell]

Hi David,

Glad you got it sorted.

I well remember those drive units from my early 80's "French" days - in fact, I remember being quite happy they drove on four axles, unlike the Hornby equals.

Cheers,

John.

 

Four axles? I have only come across models like David's which nominally drive just the two axles of the front bogie of the tender.

 

I say nominally because the design is ridiculous with the motor being positioned in such a way as to cause the bogie to be unbalanced and all the weight to go down on the second axle. The first axle is thus usually not on the rail properly and derails very easily. A replacement motor unit sounds like a very good idea and should have been available years ago.

[Pacific231G]

Four axles? I have only come across models like David's which nominally drive just the two axles of the front bogie of the tender.

 

I say nominally because the design is ridiculous with the motor being positioned in such a way as to cause the bogie to be unbalanced and all the weight to go down on the second axle. The first axle is thus usually not on the rail properly and derails very easily. A replacement motor unit sounds like a very good idea and should have been available years ago.

I'm afraid that the IPROD-HO units are drop in replacements for the Jouef motor so, though they should give far better slow running, may not improve the weight and balance very much. There is room in the tender for some extra weight over the first driven axle so I'll experiment with that and see if it improves things.(Shame printers don't use linotype anymore - it made for great weights though it was a fairly evil alloy)

Edited March 28, 2016 by Pacific231G

[runs as required]

Thank you for that info on pre-Hornby Jouef tender drives.

Can I ask: have you converted your Jouef locos and autorail to DCC ? I've been steeling myself to tackle them.

 

dh

[Joseph_Pestell]

I'm afraid that the IPROD-HO units are drop in replacements for the Jouef motor so, though they should give far better slow running, may not improve the weight and balance very much. There is room in the tender for some extra weight over the first driven axle so I'll experiment with that and see if it improves things.(Shame printers don't use linotype anymore - it made for great weights though it was a fairly evil alloy)

 

I don't think that it will make any difference how much weight you put in the tender body or where. The balance of the bogie is a function of the pivot point. To counterbalance the weight of the overhanging motor, you would need to weight the front of the bogie.

 

Might be interesting to look at some small BB locos as potential donors. The Bachmann 44t shunter can't be far off the right dimensions.

[rue_d_etropal]

the original Bachmann model with twin motors would have been easier to modify, but would not be easy to convert to DCC. Just wondering if some of the Bachmann tram chassis might fit.

[Pacific231G]

Thank you for that info on pre-Hornby Jouef tender drives.

Can I ask: have you converted your Jouef locos and autorail to DCC ? I've been steeling myself to tackle them.

 

dh

No. I'm sticking with DC I spend too much time with computers as it is!

[Horsetan]

What I like most about the 141P tender photo above is what appears to be contrate-and-pinion gears, which should give a nice smooth reversible drive. I think they might have applications in other engines. Are Jouef gear spares still available?

 

EDIT: looks like IPROD-HO sell them, so that's a useful source.

Edited August 22, 2016 by Horsetan

[L49]

Hello all, and apologies 231G for hijacking this thread, but I thought as my problem was with the same Jouef model, starting a new thread would be counterproductive.

 

I just received from Ebay a 141p, which I picked up at what was a pretty good price. It has been messed around with a bit, but most of that was cosmetic. It had been repainted though, and with what looks like it was a 6" tar brush. I have dug around on the internet and found the instructions for dismantling the loco, and according to the instruction sheet, the tender should come apart simply by popping out the four small side 'pips', and then unclipping the two clips which protrude through the front dragbeam...

 

Mine wont!!

 

I have tried applying pressure in various places, I have tried leverage (although not too much, 'cos I don't want to be searching ebay for a new tender body), I have even tried talking to the offending beast, but it just won't budge.

 

Anyone had a similar experience?

 

Any ideas??

[L49]

Ok, scrub that last problem. I have just located the hidden screw in the centre of the pick-up bogie which didn't seem to appear on the diagram! No harm done, and one tender body ready for stripping.

 

Now I really ought to write the sermon for this afternoon.