On looking into Old Railway Modellers

[PatB]

Whilst copyright law can be a bit of a minefield, presumably (assuming it's legitimate) the owners of that wonderful Meccano Magazine site have negotiated it. I'm fairly sure many of the articles in MM were contributed by outside authors rather than MM staff. For example, I'm almost certain that bloke who did the plastic kit reviews (Richard Sandpaper I think ) had an unrelated day job.

Edited April 18, 2016 by PatB

[Pacific231G]

A lot would depend on what the contract with the author says. It may give RM the right to first publication, or only publication for n years. It may only cover print.

We have a few published modellers here -- what is the wording?

 

There are a lot of old TV shows (different field, similar law) which are not sold on DVD because of actors who can't be traced or won't release rights.

It's usually when contracts are involved that clauses start to appear that are not in the author's interest.

 

Without discussing specific publishers (but I've had a couple of articles published by Peco and and am perfectly happy to offer them more) I've found that formal contracts are fairly uncommon in this and other specialist publishing areas and most writing for Model Railway magazines in Britain actually takes place on the basis of mutual goodwiil.

 

It seems generally accepted that if you submit material to a magazine the implied contract is for First British Serial Rights in return for their normal fee. First serial rights is effectively a licence to publish a work that hasn't been published before; the author still owns the work and is perfectly free to license it elsewhere but not until after the magazine has been published. If a magazine has a digital edition as well as or instead of a print edition I'd probably simply assume that's how they'd publish it but it would be something to take into account. I wouldn't expect them to include my article in a future annual or compilation without my agreement unless I'd originally agreed to that.

 

Some publishers do try to claim additional or even all rights  and I found this from one of them

"xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx pays for first time global print and/or electronic publication rights to freelance manuscripts, images, video recordings, and audio recordings .....You may not use the work in a commercial publication that costs money without our permission."

The words bargepole and ten foot immediately come to mind but they and others trying the same thing presumably figure that innocent modellers and enthusiasts will be so happy to see their favourite photos or layout etc. in print for a modest fee that they will be happy to give up all their rights to their own work forever.

Edited April 18, 2016 by Pacific231G

[Talltim]

For some reason an article from an old RM has just sprung into my head, about building an overall roof for a station using a transparent bathmat as the glazing. I wonder why I've just thought of it?

[melmoth]

While on narrow gauge, another "high period" in RM history, in my opinion, was the mid/late seventies, When Roy Link was on the RM staff, and used his massive artistic talents to produce a series of perspective drawings of layout-ideas (IIRC, these were true perspective, not isometric, which I agree is a seriously useful technique in its own right). He also wangled into the magazine a series of very good articles about small narrow gauge i.c. locos, of the "four bits of angle iron and a lawn mower engine" ilk, which I think might have been largely researched by Andrew Neale. Somewhere, I've kept an edition from 1978, which had one of each of these sorts of articles in it.

 

Is it my jaded view of life, or is RM less eclectic now than it was up unit say, the 1980s?

 

Kevin

 

PS: found it. Look at this for a line-up of authors and topics (BTW, the railway of the month had an extensive LT fourth-rail element). The narrow gauge loco articles were written by Pete Briddon, not Andrew Neale, and the drawings that went with them were by Roy Link.

 

Just saw this post from page 2 of the thread. That is the very first issue of RM that I bought, aged 10, October 1978.

[Nearholmer]

Talltim - sunstroke?

 

Melmoth - much as I like that edition, it has no great sentimental meaning to me; PM me your address and I will post you my dog-eared copy, if you want it.

 

Generally - I've gone all soft on RM this month, because they've published an article about a very retro TT layout. Hopefully, a resurgence of eclecticism has begun.

 

Kevin

[PatB]

For some reason an article from an old RM has just sprung into my head, about building an overall roof for a station using a transparent bathmat as the glazing. I wonder why I've just thought of it?

I'm not sure why you thought of it but I remember the article too. It was by a chap whose name I unfortunately forget, who built the northern end of the LNWR (Tebay to Carlisle) in about 8' x 3'. IIRC the bath-mat roof was for Carlisle.

[melmoth]

Talltim - sunstroke?

 

Melmoth - much as I like that edition, it has no great sentimental meaning to me; PM me your address and I will post you my dog-eared copy, if you want it.

 

Generally - I've gone all soft on RM this month, because they've published an article about a very retro TT layout. Hopefully, a resurgence of eclecticism has begun.

 

Kevin

 

Hi Kevin, thanks for the kind offer, but I still have my copy, which is allso quite dog-eared now.

 

Jon

[5050]

In a similar vein, every issue of Meccano Magazine in PDF format:

 http://www.meccanoin....uk/MMpdfs1.php

 

and

 

 http://meccano.magazines.free.fr

 

All your favourite issues are there.

 

Martin.

I reckon I learned more from Meccano Magazine than I did at school.  Well, about things that were (are!) interesting that is such as trains, planes, automobiles, ships, construction equipment, engineering etc. etc. etc.  My kids (now well into adulthood) have always wondered at my ecletic general knowledge and I tell them it's all down to reading MM as a lad.

[swampy]

I'm not sure why you thought of it but I remember the article too. It was by a chap whose name I unfortunately forget, who built the northern end of the LNWR (Tebay to Carlisle) in about 8' x 3'. IIRC the bath-mat roof was for Carlisle.

The name Ted(?) Sankey comes to mind. I can visualise an LNWR railmotor made up of a Gem card coach side, with a half-inch cutout to allow the Nellie chassis to swing out on the 12" radius curves.

[PatB]

The name Ted(?) Sankey comes to mind. I can visualise an LNWR railmotor made up of a Gem card coach side, with a half-inch cutout to allow the Nellie chassis to swing out on the 12" radius curves.

 

That's the fellow. A little ambitious, but a man who built the model he wanted with the resources available to him without whinging about a lack of RTR support or whatever; something for which, I think, he should be applauded.

[New Haven Neil]

Yup, Sankey rings a bell with me too.  The bath mat was a little crude even then though!

[Nearholmer]

The sad fact is that I think I recall this bathmat too!

 

A thing with transparent squares, maybe about an inch each, possibly with wires between them, curved into an arch?

 

I hope Mr Sankey us still with us, but if not, he will be comforted in the hereafter by knowing that his name lives forever, on the strength of his creativity.

 

Kevin

Edited May 13, 2016 by Nearholmer

[Talltim]

The name Ted(?) Sankey comes to mind. I can visualise an LNWR railmotor made up of a Gem card coach side, with a half-inch cutout to allow the Nellie chassis to swing out on the 12" radius curves.

Yes, I remember that too. I agree with applauding the 'get it done' mentality

[New Haven Neil]

The sad fact is that I think I recall this bathmat too!

 

A thing with transparent squares, maybe about an inch each, possibly with wires between them, curved into an arch?

 

I hope Mr Sankey us still with us, but if not, he will be comforted in the hereafter by knowing that his name lives forever, on the strength of his creativity.

 

Kevin

 

 

I think he will be long gone, IIRC he looked like an old boy back then - was it the late 60's?

[St Enodoc]

I think he will be long gone, IIRC he looked like an old boy back then - was it the late 60's?

Byline was R E M Sankey.

 

LNWR steam railcar, converted from a Playcraft coach - RM 10/68

LNWR coaches converted from Playcraft vans with GEM card sides and a loco converted from a Tri-ang Jinty - RM 1/69

LNWR signals scratchbuilt from styrene sheet and stripwood - RM 4/70

'Proprietary modeller - How to build a layout without really trying' layout article - RM 6/70

Plastic mat overall roof - RM 12/71

[PatB]

I think he will be long gone, IIRC he looked like an old boy back then - was it the late 60's?

 

I agree. From memory of the articles I get the impression he actually remembered the LNWR which would put him at well over 100 now, at least.

[kevinlms]

Byline was R E M Sankey.

 

LNWR steam railcar, converted from a Playcraft coach - RM 10/68

LNWR coaches converted from Playcraft vans with GEM card sides and a loco converted from a Tri-ang Jinty - RM 1/69

LNWR signals scratchbuilt from styrene sheet and stripwood - RM 4/70

'Proprietary modeller - How to build a layout without really trying' layout article - RM 6/70

Plastic mat overall roof - RM 12/71

Further to this, there is an article in Model Railway 1974 January Page 32, by Robert Sankey. The layout described is entitled '"The Old Firm" remembered'. There are 3 stations, Carlisle, Tebay & Gaisgil in a compact site.

It has some truly fearsome grades on it - the methods to build them are described! It involves nailing battens to the wall with masonry nails.

 

He concludes thus -

 

"Furthermore I joined the LNWR in March 1917 as a Traffic Apprentice & served at several London stations & several at Liverpool before going to Whitehaven, then back to Warrington. At the last 3 my duties included inspecting the stations in the area and I travelled and walked the line extensively. Thus is was natural I should chose the the 'old firm' which was the most familiar to me."

 

 

To confirm with PatB, he did know the real LNWR.

[St Enodoc]

Further to this, there is an article in Model Railway 1974 January Page 32, by Robert Sankey. The layout described is entitled '"The Old Firm" remembered'. There are 3 stations, Carlisle, Tebay & Gaisgil in a compact site.

It has some truly fearsome grades on it - the methods to build them are described! It involves nailing battens to the wall with masonry nails.

 

He concludes thus -

 

"Furthermore I joined the LNWR in March 1917 as a Traffic Apprentice & served at several London stations & several at Liverpool before going to Whitehaven, then back to Warrington. At the last 3 my duties included inspecting the stations in the area and I travelled and walked the line extensively. Thus is was natural I should chose the the 'old firm' which was the most familiar to me."

 

 

To confirm with PatB, he did know the real LNWR.

Thanks Kevin. Although I have a full set of MRN/Model Railways etc, only my Railway Modellers are indexed fully (yet?) so I didn't pick that extra reference up.

[kevinlms]

Byline was R E M Sankey.

 

LNWR steam railcar, converted from a Playcraft coach - RM 10/68

LNWR coaches converted from Playcraft vans with GEM card sides and a loco converted from a Tri-ang Jinty - RM 1/69

LNWR signals scratchbuilt from styrene sheet and stripwood - RM 4/70

'Proprietary modeller - How to build a layout without really trying' layout article - RM 6/70

Plastic mat overall roof - RM 12/71

I have some of those issues. However the version of his name varies as R.E.M. Sankey or in RM 1970 June, its R.M.E. Sankey. Anyone know which is correct? Yes, pedantic, but a PITA if trying to compile an index!

Am I right in thinking I've seen some of his photos of LNWR/LMS matters in books?

[St Enodoc]

I have some of those issues. However the version of his name varies as R.E.M. Sankey or in RM 1970 June, its R.M.E. Sankey. Anyone know which is correct? Yes, pedantic, but a PITA if trying to compile an index!

Am I right in thinking I've seen some of his photos of LNWR/LMS matters in books?

Only one issue has R M E - all the others are R E M so I would guess that R M E is a misprint. I haven't got any LNWR/LMS books so I can't help there.

[Eclipse247]

I too was something of a fan of Ray Pope's books. I thoroughly enjoyed the stories and was also, even at a fairly young age, impressed that the model railway equipment described was recognisable as, for example, the r-t-r of the era. For example the West Country "Barnstaple" was frequently mentioned which, I assume was the Dublo or Wrenn model. Hornby's factory at Margate was also mentioned and, as I recall, met with Telford's approval as a staunch Southern man .

Hi

You might like to know that these books will be coming out as Kindle versions starting with the first in the series called The Model Railway Men which is available now. The Barnstaple was the Dublo version. The chapters in this story were interwoven around what was in the railway layout, and the house layout, including the loft room water header tank that Gresley fell into in the last chapter. The crane used in chapter 4 "Stuff for a Drass" was part of the layout.

Edited June 4, 2016 by Eclipse247

[Eclipse247]

That's exactly the one I was thinking of - a great layout!

 

My early memories of the Modeller come from Weymouth Library, which had a collection of RM bound volumes in the children's lending section in the 70's - how enlightened! - which I used to borrow regularly, indeed almost permanently! They ran from 1970 to 1975, in maroon hardback covers - a source of great inspiration and ideas over what felt like a 'golden period' for the magazine, with many large 'system' layouts (I remember one which had just about the whole Western Region over several rooms, with multiple track everywhere!). 

 

As a slight digression the library also had a few of 'The Model Railway Men' books by Ray Pope - anyone remember those? - which were set on a boy's layout where the 'little people' came to life, and were named after iconic engineers - Telford, Stanier, Gresley, etc - it sounds cheesy but they were great stories and a good read. I see the books on eBay/Amazon these days for large sums. 

 

David

Re Davids comment re "The Model Railway Men":-

Ah, Amazon's auto-pricing algorithm strikes again!

See also: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110425/03522114026/infinite-loop-algorithmic-pricing-amazon-how-book-flies-cost-2369865593.shtml

 

The algo has pushed the price up to £857! However, 2nd hand copies go for around £20. The Kindle version is much cheaper. I am not sure how they are offering a "new" copy. They could be remainders that sat in a box for many years.

Does anyone think a hard copy paper version would be more acceptable? If so, they would be cheaper than the second hand originals thanks to the print on demand services that were not available back in the day!

My father was a teacher/educator/author and the engineers mentioned could bring home to a childs mind that these guys were creative as engineers, in the same way he was as an author, and they could be creative in their own lives. ie to remove boundaries between creative/inventive people and those who may become so.

Edited June 4, 2016 by Eclipse247

[John B]

Re Davids comment re "The Model Railway Men":-

Ah, Amazon's auto-pricing algorithm strikes again!

See also: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110425/03522114026/infinite-loop-algorithmic-pricing-amazon-how-book-flies-cost-2369865593.shtml

 

The algo has pushed the price up to £857! However, 2nd hand copies go for around £20. The Kindle version is much cheaper. I am not sure how they are offering a "new" copy. They could be remainders that sat in a box for many years.

Does anyone think a hard copy paper version would be more acceptable? If so, they would be cheaper than the second hand originals thanks to the print on demand services that were not available back in the day!

My father was a teacher/educator/author and the engineers mentioned could bring home to a childs mind that these guys were creative as engineers, in the same way he was as an author, and they could be creative in their own lives. ie to remove boundaries between creative/inventive people and those who may become so.

 

I'd love to see them available on Apple iBooks (I don't do Kindle!) but would certainly enjoy a hard copy of them too. As a kid I read all of the then-available books in the series from Beverley library.

[Eclipse247]

I'd love to see them available on Apple iBooks (I don't do Kindle!) but would certainly enjoy a hard copy of them too. As a kid I read all of the then-available books in the series from Beverley library.

Hi Jon, Thanks for the input. I will have to look into doing an iBook version. A new hard copy would be around half the price of a 2nd hand original.  I am wondering how many others don't do Kindle?

[33C]

The name Ted(?) Sankey comes to mind. I can visualise an LNWR railmotor made up of a Gem card coach side, with a half-inch cutout to allow the Nellie chassis to swing out on the 12" radius curves.

A great inspiration to me, if it doesn't exist, make it yourself! The LNWR Rail-motor still exists! I have it in my collection after finding it on a well known auction site and had to buy it. It runs very well and the natural ageing suits it to a T.