Phil Mortimers 7mm WorkBench - Mercian Vivian Style Garratt

[Scale7JB]

I too passed up on one of these kits at Telford a few years back as they're a bit of a mission and bore no importance to what I model, however it looks like you're making a proper job of these two..

 

With regard to the ball joints, will these work for you? http://www.modernoutline.co.uk/modern_outline_025.htm

 

JB.

[Giles]

Very nice ball joints......

[Simond]

Good timing too. I didn't know that MOK did outside cranks for Slaters axles. I have a Dukedog kit.

 

Thx

Simon

[PhilMortimer]

Thanks for the links. I looked at these earlier for the pivots, but am not sure they will work for the purpose. And they are expensive, though exquisite. I am however, almost finished with my prototype version that I have made myself and am pleased with how it is working out. So when I do the real ones for the loco's, I'll detail it.And it's much cheaper.

 

The rods have all been drilled as pairs. I'll put pictures up later. The wheels and axles are currently being prepared, cleaned and blackened . The axles went OK, but I'm having to redo the wheels as surface rust appeared very quickly on the rims / tyres. Not sure why. I've not had the same problem since I re-did them, though still have more to do.

[PhilMortimer]

OK, Time for an update.

 

With both sets of rods soldered up and cleaned up, it was time to drill them for the crankpin bushings. This was done with hand tools, but done carefully as is shown in the following procedure, to get identical holes positions on both rods.

 

I use a hand drill from Micromark. It is meant to be used for tapping, (and does that very well), but I also use it as a pillar drill for drilling when things need to be perfectly vertical. Plus, I like the hand control, as to me it gives a bit more control over the drilling operation, though takes longer and is more tiring than a powered drill.

 

Here is the pillar drill (on my normal cluttered workbench).

 

WF_Garratt_078 by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr

 

 

The rods were drilled as pairs for each engine unit. Here the first hole in one of the rods is being drilled out to a close fit. I think I used a 2.45mm dia drill bit, where as the Slaters crankpin bushings that will hold the rods on are 2.4mm dia. Basically a push fit. The piece of brass under the rod was to support it during drilling operations.

 

WF_Garratt_079 by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr

 

 

Both ends of rod #1 of a pair are now drilled out, de-burred and slightly countersunk to remove any ridges. The rod is now polished again.

 

WF_Garratt_080 by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr

 

 

The second rod of the pair is now matched to the drilled one, aligned and clamped together. The hole at one end is now drilled through the second rod, using the hole in the first to align the drill correctly.

 

WF_Garratt_081 by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr

 

 

The crankpin bush is placed through the holes in both rods to maintain alignment at that end. Rod alignment is then checked and the hole in the second rod is then drilled, again using the hole in the first rod to enure correct alignment.

 

WF_Garratt_083 by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr

 

The second rod is again de-burred, counter bored and polished like the first.

 

This now gives a set of rods with identical crankpin spacing's, as shown below.

 

WF_Garratt_084 by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr

 

Pair of rods. Upper rod with crankpin bushings installed. Lower rod, waiting to be stacked on top.

 

 

WF_Garratt_086 by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr

 

Side rods paired together, crankpin bushings through both holes showing identical crankpin spacing.

 

 

All four pairs of rods were done in the same manner. Each pair will then be used to align the axle bearings in the frames (as will be described later) and will be assigned to one of the four engine units. Alignment of the axle bearings using the coupling rods is critical to getting a smooth running chassis and I will be using an axle alignment jig for this job.

 

Finally, I started preparing the wheels and axles. These were chemically blackened using Birchwood Casey gun Blue and have been oiled. I still need to drill out the crankpins to 10BA, but am awaiting a supply of BA screws to do so. I also will need to add the balance weights in the manner described by Giles, but need to get hold of some Milliput first. Both of these have to come from the UK, so there will be a delay in the proceedings.

 

In the meantime, here are the wheels as initially blackened and prepared to avoid rusting. I was most dissapointed that these wheels did not come pre-rusted.........

 

WF_Garratt_087 by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr

 

All eight axles (16 wheels) prepared. Loco's in the background. desk cluttered as usual.

 

WF_Garratt_088 by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr

 

 

I'm now working on the pivots and fitting the innermost bearings. Update to follow at some point......

Edited July 2, 2017 by PhilMortimer

[PhilMortimer]

It's all Giles's fault. In his build, he described how he replaced the pivots supplied in the kit with one he turned up from brass rod, that would offer superior performance. Basically, he made a ball joint, that sits in a cup and allows the various parts of the loco frames to not only rotate relative to one another, but to pitch and roll. The suggested tube would have allowed rotation, but would restrict pitch and roll and probably result in problematic running.

 

Giles's pivots are shown below (blatantly copied from the page of his build - hope this is OK)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I wanted to make something similar, as I foresaw problems with the arrangement as supplied. However, I don't have a lathe, so that complicated matters. (OK, I have access to one at work, but I'm supposed to be working then...........) However, after much thought, I realized that basically a ball joint is basically a ball mounted on a solid rod. So if I could find a suitable sized ball, drill it out and solder it to some rod, maybe we would have something we could use. I chose to use 1/8" dia brass rod, which was surrounded by K&S telescoping 5/32 and 3/16 brass tube to get the size of the rod up to the 3/16" diameter of the mounting bearing.

 

Ultimately, Diane came to the rescue when she suggested brass fishing beads. She used to fish a lot and was aware of them. I on the other hand get fish from the supermarket and have never been fishing in my life! Anyhow, sure enough, I was able to source some 3/16 dia brass beads with a small hole drilled through them that were a perfect fit for the 3/16 inner dia brass mainframe bearings used as bearing cups.

 

The first task was to open out the hole in the beads so that it would accept the 1/8" brass rod. This involved mounting the beads carefully in the vise, using some scrap brass sheet with an indentation drilled in each one to hold the beads steady. The bead was aligned carefully so that the existing hole was perfectly vertical and then the hole gradually opened up to the correct size with a series of drill bits of increasing size. The hand driven pillar drill / tapping drill was used to allow careful control of the drilling. Using drill bits of gradually increasing size allows the drill to follow the existing hole and prevents things going off center.

 

WF_Garratt_089 by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr

 

3/16" dia fishing beads before starting work.

 

 

WF_Garratt_090 by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr

 

Drilling out the fishing beads using the drill press. Note the brass shims used to hold the bead in place.

 

 

WF_Garratt_091 by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr

 

 

Four drilled out beads mounted on 1/8" rod for safe storage and before cleaning up. I will admit that I did mess a few up by being too eager (too much pressure or too big a jump in drill size) with the drill, and probably drilled a total of seven beads to get four good ones.

 

 

The pivot mount was then made by telescoping the 1/8 " rod, into the 5/32 tube, which in itself was mounted into the 3/16" tube. This made a pivot that exactly fitted into the bearing mount supplied, which had 3/16" inner diameter.

 

 

WF_Garratt_092 by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr

 

Basic pivot rod, ready for ball to be mounted on it.

 

After fitting the ball and much careful alignment to ensure that the ball was at the correct distance, the whole was flame soldered to give the following.

 

 

WF_Garratt_093 by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr

 

This is directly after soldering and before cleaning. The pivot was then cut off the rod and the next one made.

 

 

So from a few basic components (3/16" dia brass fishing beads, some 1/8" rod, 5/32 and 3/16 " brass tube), I was able to make 4 pivots, two for each loco.

 

 

WF_Garratt_094 by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr

 

 

These were then soldered into position within the 3/16 inner dia main frame bearings that are supplied for use as pivot mounts in the kit. The fitted pivots can be seen in the picture below.

 

 

WF_Garratt_095 by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr

 

 

And here is a picture of the loco with the front engine unit attached, showing how the ball sits inside the bearing cup

 

 

WF_Garratt_096 by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr

 

 

Giles drilled a hole crosswise through his bearings to allow a wire to be inserted to hold the loco together. I considered doing the same, but ultimately decided against it. This was partly due to the difficulty in doing so and also I felt would put an undue strain on the pivots and mounts if the loco was lifted without being correctly supported.

 

So with the pivots done, I can now move on with other items. The cab floor can go in and the pivot cover at the smoke-box end can be fitted. And it's nice just to be able to put the locos together as complete units for the first time.

 

Next, to get the second set of engine unit bearings aligned and soldered in.

Edited July 2, 2017 by PhilMortimer

[Giles]

Nice - you won't regret that at all....... I do like a bit of lateral thinking!

[PhilMortimer]

Just a small update.

 

I added some strengthening L-angle beams across the front apron of the boiler frame in front of the smokebox. These are hidden by the pivot cover and make the frame more rigid at the front.

 

WF_Garratt_097 by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr

 

Photo showing strengthening beams added across the front of the frame either side of the pivot.

 

 

WF_Garratt_098 by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr

 

With the pivot cover and front apron soldered into place and cleaned up. The fall plate from the front tank will rest on this.

 

This work has been done on both loco's

 

 

Not obvious, but I have started to drill the chimneys out. This is a slow and time consuming task and is being done over a number of sessions. But should improve the overall look of the loco.

 

 

There won't be any updates for a couple of weeks due to family visiting, preventing much work being conducted for the duration.

Edited July 2, 2017 by PhilMortimer

[PhilMortimer]

Just getting back to this. Spent last night drilling out the chimneys on both loco's whilst watching a video on the restoration of N&W 611. Both locos now have chimneys with some depth to them to remove the "filled with concrete" look.

 

Tonight I will try and fit the cab floors, though I have some barn work to do first before going home.

Edited November 1, 2016 by PhilMortimer

[PhilMortimer]

Sorry for the silence over the past few weeks. I've had family visiting from the UK and that has put a brake on modelling work.

 

However, I did get the chimneys drilled out as previously mentioned and here is a picture showing that they look much better for it!

 

WF_Garratt_099 by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr

 

I have also added the second sets of bearings on both power units for one of the loco's, and the other is in progress. This was done using a master chassis alignment jig and the coupling rods, which are now allocated to a specific engine / power unit. Good thing I used the jig, as the etched holes for the inner axle on each unit were etched ~ 0.5mm short of the position dictated by the rods, which would have made for some interesting running! The bearing holes were elongated and then the bearings installed. The power units for the second loco are being prepared for fitting of the bearings. Too tired and stressed after a bad day at work to even think about picking up a soldering iron! The rear stretcher for the frames that also carries the sandboxes were fitted prior to jigging up the bearings, to make the chassis more rigid. These may need to be adjusted slightly to accomodate the wheels. Photo's to follow.

 

Not long until I test-fit the wheels now......

 

On another note, some packages arrived for me the other day. First up will be my next builds after the BG's.

 

WF_Garratt_100 by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr

 

The 9F is for me and the 8P for Dad.

 

Also, it was my 43rd birthday the other day and Diane bought me a Weller WD1002 temperature controlled soldering iron, which will make life so much easier for soldering whitemetal castings than just suing a dimmer switch. I'm just waiting for a set of tips now then I can get to start using it.

Edited July 2, 2017 by PhilMortimer

[PhilMortimer]

The second (inner) set of bearings have been added for the power units on the second loco. Again, this was done with a chassis jig using the rods as spacers to set the correct bearing positions from the front axle. Hopefully, this will result in a free running chassis.

 

WF_Garratt_102 by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr

 

Power unit #3 on the jig for setting the bearing positions. I know there has been some discussion about the validity of using expensive jigs like this to build chassis, but I find it incredibly useful, especially as mine has both 4mm and 7mm scale dowel rods. For a kit such as the one under current build, where some of the artwork is a bit "iffy", it is invaluable. With these chassis, it was discovered that the inner bearing holes differed from the rod spacing by ~0.5mm, which necessitated extending the etched holes for the inner bearings back by a corresponding amount. As a result, using some form of jig was almost essential for setting the axle spacing correctly. I do have a JPL models jig and that works well, but the master chassis jig probably made life considerably easier in this case. If it makes my life easier and gives a more reliable model, I'm all for it!

 

That said, I haven't yet gotten the loco on its wheels with the rods fitted to test the accuracy and free-rolling nature of each chassis, as I'm still awaiting a supply of 10BA bolts to make the crankpins with. (The kit is supplied with 12 BA screws, but these look a little weedy to me and I prefer to use 10BA, with the bushings tapped correspondingly to retain the rods). Unfortunately, it's not possible to obtain 10BA bolts readily here, so I must await a delivery form the UK. Ho Hum. I suppose I could use the supplied 12BA bolts, and then open out to 10BA later, but that seems to me to have the potential for introducing problems. I can wait. Still, I'm sure there are other things I can be getting on with.....

Edited July 2, 2017 by PhilMortimer

[PhilMortimer]

Other things that I need to be getting on with include setting up the valve gear, in particular the cylinder and slide bars. Both the piston rod and valve glands are cast in hard brass, as are the slidebars. Whilst the gland castings are OK, the slidebars are not, being very wonky. They will either need a lot of fettling OR (more likely) replacing with something more acceptable (e.g. nickle silver strip). Things to ponder on at work.......

[PhilMortimer]

Oh Dear. Down on page 3. I have been absent for a bit. So, time for a bit of progress on this slow moving project. At the moment we are at the stage where there is an awful lot of work being done, but little to show for it......

 

I have finally got all four power units up on their wheels temporarily. The jig certainly worked - all four chassis had all wheels on the ground with no rocking. The next thing is to check the coupling rod spacing, which requires receipt of the crankpins (currently in transit somewhere between the UK and the US). One thing that was noticed is that there is a LOT of sideplay between the frames and the wheels, which will require packing out. I have some made some temporary spacers for the moment from #8 washers, but have some etched axle spacers on order. I need to reduce the sideplay on the outer axle, as it is behind the crosshead and there isn't a great deal of room.

 

So some pictures.

 

WF_Garratt_103 by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr

 

WF_Garratt_104 by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr

 

Power unit on its wheels.

 

 

WF_Garratt_105 by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr

 

WF_Garratt_106 by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr

 

Inner end of power unit showing end frame spacer fitted. This has the extentions for the sandboxes on it. Unfortunately, if fitted as designed, it prevents the inner wheels from being fitted. The solution to this (as can bee seen in the above photo) was cranking the sandbox supports slightly, to move them backwards and give clearance for the wheels. Some of the support was also filed away to allow clearance for the flanges. I think Giles did the same on his loco. The gap will be filled with milliput.

 

I also added some supports to the bunker end power bogies. These consist of brass wires soldered to the inner sides of the power unit frames, projecting under the cab. The boiler cradle rests on these at this end and this provides rolling stability to the cradle. Without this, the cradle could easily tip to one side, being just supprted on the small 3/16" bearings at each end. The pivot still allows pitch and rotation, but this restricts roll at this end. The added benefit to this is that it lifts the cradle to the correct height so that the running plate on the boiler lines up with the bunker. I still need to adjust the height at the front end of the cradle with respect to the front engine unit, so the running plates line up. However, there will be no restriction on roll at this end to enure maximum flexibility and articulation of the complate loco.

 

WF_Garratt_107 by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr

 

 

Finally some pictures of the loco on its wheels.

 

WF_Garratt_109 by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr

 

WF_Garratt_108 by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr

 

 

I have also started cleaning up the cylinder castings, to remove the casting marks. This was done by spinning each in a drill, and rubbing it with files, various grades of sandpaper and finally jewllers polishing paper. I now need to drill the castings for the piston rods.

 

WF_Garratt_110 by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr

 

 

All of this is taking a bit of time. I guess it always done when you are building two of each loco and each one caontains 4 sets of valve gear. Still, it keeps me out of trouble!

Edited July 2, 2017 by PhilMortimer

[PhilMortimer]

A nice package of parts from Eileens was awaiting me at the post office this morning. Goody. Progress can now continue. (Apart from work getting in the way of course!).

[Giles]

Those castings have come up nicely! I feel for you doing eight sets.....

 

 

If I recall. The motion bracket will need chopping about to clear the coupling rods as well (although it was some time ago, so I may be mistaken!)

 

Looking good!

[PhilMortimer]

Thank You. It was actually quite theraputic spinning the castings in the drill whilst watching Morse on TV.

 

I'm not looking forward to putting the slidebars on the cylinder ends. The supplied ones are seperate from the cylinder end castings and are not in great shape. I'm probabaly going to replace them with N/S strip/bar, due to the amount of fettling that would be needed to get the castings in a good enough shape to use. The N/S bar arrived in this mornings post. However, at this juncture, I have no idea how I'm going to set everything up to get the slidebars in the correct orientation with respect to the movement of the piston rod (and with the correct spacing fro the crosshead). At the moment, it looks like it will be a 5 handed job,,,,,,, Meanwhile, whilst I'm figuring that out, I will concentrate on prepping the wheels and getting the milliput balance weights (a la Giles) formed.

Edited November 29, 2016 by PhilMortimer

[Giles]

If it were me, I should bend a length of the nickel-silver into a 'U', Spring it onto the cylinder end castings, and silver-solder them in place, and afterwards trim the bent end off. That would ensure squareness between them.

[PhilMortimer]

Thanks Giles,

 

I was thinking along something simmilar, but using a home made jig to get everything lined up before soldering. Need to think this out a bit more.

 

However, in other news, I am pressing on with the wheels. These have all been removed from the locos and the first 12 have had milliput applied to form the balance weights. They seem to have cured nixcely overnight and i will try and file them up to get the final shape tonight. The remaining 4 wheels will have milliput applied tonight - I ran out of time and it was getting late and the milliput was going off to much to complete the final four.

[Guest Isambarduk]

They are coming on nicely now, Phil.

 

One thing that was noticed is that there is a LOT of sideplay between the frames and the wheels, which will require packing out.

 

This is a very common problem, particularly with older kits but it's by no means unusual with contemporary kits either.  The proper solution, I would suggest, is not to pack out with spacers but to spot this problem before you start to assemble the frames and then to modify, or make new, frame spacers.  It is very rare that I have not had to do this so, working to 0 gauge fine standard, I push the frames out to 27.5mm overall width, which gives a decent looking small gap betwixt wheels and frames and leaves rather more room between the frames for motor/gearbox/flywheel/inside motion/weights/etc.

 

David

[PhilMortimer]

David,

 

Knowing what I do now about this kit, I would agree with you. However, I chose to use the fold up frames as supplied, assuming that this would help with the frame alignment. In retrospect, that was a mistake. I should have separated the frames into their separate parts, set them up with turned spacers and soldered new ones in. I had the opportunity to do this when I blew several of the frames apart and set them up again, but failed to take the opportunity. My mistake. However, having gotten everything set up to my satisfaction now, I think I'm too far forward to dismantle everything and start over. So with these loco, I will pack out the wheels with spacers. In future, I think that fold up frames will be separated and new correctly sizes spacers made. Using fold up frames relies on the kit designer getting the folds in the correct place. Oh well, a learning experience.

 

Still the locos's are indeed starting to come together now.

Edited December 1, 2016 by PhilMortimer

[PhilMortimer]

Appologies.

 

I haven't forgotten about this loco or given up on it. Much work has been going on wrt the wheels. It's just that work (a rude four letter word) has been getting in the way at the moment and to be honest, there hasn't been a great deal of progress woth photographing. Maybe some more visible progress over Christmas?

[DLT]

They are coming on nicely now, Phil.

 

One thing that was noticed is that there is a LOT of sideplay between the frames and the wheels, which will require packing out.

 

This is a very common problem, particularly with older kits but it's by no means unusual with contemporary kits either.  The proper solution, I would suggest, is not to pack out with spacers but to spot this problem before you start to assemble the frames and then to modify, or make new, frame spacers.  It is very rare that I have not had to do this so, working to 0 gauge fine standard, I push the frames out to 27.5mm overall width, which gives a decent looking small gap betwixt wheels and frames and leaves rather more room between the frames for motor/gearbox/flywheel/inside motion/weights/etc.

 

David

 

As a brief aside (and not trying to hi-jack the topic) this is still an issue with many kits in 00.  Frames unnecessarily narrow and masses of side-play.  

I guess its the legacy of designs that incorporated a big open-frame motor actually sitting on an angled cutout in the frames.  

Widening the frames, (I often use the EM spacers filed down a bit for 00) reduces the sideplay and creates a lot more room for a decent gearbox.

 

Back on topic, the Garratt is coming on a treat Phil

Cheers, Dave.

[PhilMortimer]

Quick question.

 

I sprayed the wheels lastnight, but am not happy with the finish. Does anyone know if the plastic that is used to make Slaters Wheels is imune to paint stripper or simmilar?

 

Thanks,

 

P

[Simond]

Phil

 

There's a distressing photo of a wagon that had been paint-stripped on the GOG website. There are four rings around the axles... no spokes at all!!! Not sure whose wheels they were.

 

I believe I read that the loco wheels are nylon, so they're likely to be quite resistant to some strippers, but please don't blame me if it all goes wrong!!

 

Steve Fay uses Dettol on Heljan bodies, but I don't know if you can get that in your neck of the woods, or indeed, if you can, whether it's the same stuff...

 

I'd guess that most plastics are going to be resistant to alkalis, so a solution of caustic soda could perhaps work, but might damage the steel...

 

Perhaps an email to David White at Slaters would be worthwhile.

 

Best

Simon

[PhilMortimer]

Thanks Simon.

 

Having gotten my brain into gear after posting, I looked at the Slaters website and sure enough, it says they're made of a brass centre, a nylon moulding and a steel wheel. So I'm going with the suggested nylon, which I understand to be fairly chemical resistant. However, to be sure, I also checked with some of my colleagues (I'm an analytical / physical chemist, not a synthetic or ploymer one) and they agree it should be resistant to most common solvents. So the wheels will probabaly get a dunk tonight and we'll see what happens. Apparently, it has excellent resistance to MEK, which is good, as I have a gallon of it at home (you can buy MEK at most hardware stores here as a paint stripper. For much cheaper than a botle of MekPak.)

 

I will report back.

Edited December 16, 2016 by PhilMortimer