hayfield Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 I see that Modelu 3D have some GWR slide chairs to 4 mm scale in the pipeline scheduled for this month, see post 28 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/114943-modelu-figures-components-november-2016/page-2&do=findComment&comment=2508912 Quite often 7 mm scale prints follow, so I guess its a case of if enough 7 mm modellers request them they may be developed As for the differences between hand built and Peco turnouts, 7 mm turnouts come into their own when you build to a different size and or geometry. The main drawback is lack of the specialist detail chairs (block etc) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Freeman Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 I see that Modelu 3D have some GWR slide chairs to 4 mm scale in the pipeline scheduled for this month, see post 28 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/114943-modelu-figures-components-november-2016/page-2&do=findComment&comment=2508912 Quite often 7 mm scale prints follow, so I guess its a case of if enough 7 mm modellers request them they may be developed As for the differences between hand built and Peco turnouts, 7 mm turnouts come into their own when you build to a different size and or geometry. The main drawback is lack of the specialist detail chairs (block etc) Ah so the cat is out of the bag! so to speak. I'm sure Alan will be letting me know when they are ready, he already knows of my interest (I understand he has already done the scans). I don't know if he will do them in 7mm scale as well though as C&L already do them (Yes I know there is a deficiency in them so maybe he will). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ROSSPOP Posted November 23, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 23, 2016 Scratch Built v Peco Modified (Note: Ambis stretchers not shown in these photos, they are being reworked, and yes I still have the odd angled sleepers, so no need to comment on this as I know... LoL) Hope the photos show what can be done to improve a Peco O gauge point to make it look more prototypical. When painted and weathered it should will look the part even further. It was quicker to modify than to scratch build (and cheaper) and I do still have a preference for my scratch built version. Again if you don't know the prototype in detail and are not as concerned about fidelity then it is good enough for most (I hope!). Hope you find photos interesting as a comparison.... IMG_0084_edited-1.jpg IMG_0083_edited-1.jpg IMG_0078.JPG IMG_0082_edited-1.jpg I like what you have done with the Peco point....... I might have a go at the one solitary example I have......... It would be good if you could describe how you went about it ...... Have you fixed down in any way the crossing noses and flangeways ? John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenmodelmonkey Posted November 23, 2016 Author Share Posted November 23, 2016 I like what you have done with the Peco point....... I might have a go at the one solitary example I have......... It would be good if you could describe how you went about it ...... Have you fixed down in any way the crossing noses and flangeways ? John Thanks John, I will give a brief idea as don't have time to go into detail at moment... Removed Vee rail by unpicking spot welded connection wire on underneath of point remade vee, its not soldered (same as Peco version) but will be from underneath later. Removed all other rail so tou are left with sleeper base (Peco fix rail buy spot welding small Nickel Silver pads underneath sleeper base to stop rail from moving through chairs. To remove these pads just give end of rail a sharp tap and they pop off). Now remove as much of the plastic between the sleepers with a razor saw but leave the nose vee plastic between sleepers. Cut dummy point cover again with a razor cutting and removing the 3 associated sleepers between slide chairs, make new sleeper lengths using sleeper pack from Peco and glue between slide chairs/ sleeper gap. Make new check rails with less acute angles, same with check rails either side of vee, use exactoscale fishplates instead of Peco joiners at point blades and where vee isolating plastic pads used to be. All other rails are as supplied by Peco including point blades, point pivot pads are removed and replaced with Ambis parts. Think that about it for now letme know if there is anything else you want to know and good luck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted December 20, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 20, 2016 I like what you have done to the Peco point but cannot understand why the scratch build isn't cheaper or are you buying in the blades and crossing? Incidentally does anyone know whether the GWR always used the Slab and Bracket for the crossing nose (after the bult road naturally) or did it come in with the curved switches? Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Shapeways have GWR slab and bracket chairs available, and at a reasonable price Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenmodelmonkey Posted December 21, 2016 Author Share Posted December 21, 2016 I like what you have done to the Peco point but cannot understand why the scratch build isn't cheaper or are you buying in the blades and crossing? Incidentally does anyone know whether the GWR always used the Slab and Bracket for the crossing nose (after the bult road naturally) or did it come in with the curved switches? Don Hi and in response.... Blades are unmodified from the existing Peco point. My Vee is new but made from new Peco rail. I had a length of spare Peco flexible track so unthreaded rail and used this to form new Vee. However you may be able to use existing Vee and push in a about 1mm further. Check rails could be reused and flared ends just bent at a lesser angle, but I made two more as flared ends of Peco verion are too short. I did the same for check rails either side of the vee using new lengths of Peco rail. For the scratch built point I used the GWR type brass slab and bracket from C&L and these are standard on both straight and curved turnouts. As for cost... Peco point £39.00 On length of peco flexitrack £5.40 to make new rails Ambis stretcher bars £6.50 (only 1 of 3 used) Pack of peco point sleepers £3.50 (only one used so about 20p) Total ~ £54.44 max C&L/Exactoscale if you were to make one off point and had to buy all ingredients first Turnout timbers £9.00 Exactoscale running chairs (cheapest pack) £24.00 Point blades £14.00 Common crossing £18.00 Vee £12.50 Bridge chairs £10.00 Slide chairs £9.00 Fishplates £10.50 Slab and bracket for vee £9.50 Rail 3 off single lengths at £3.60 each and total cost = £10.80 Check gauges £10.00 Ambis stretcher bars £6.50 Total ~ £143.80 Or C&L kit (with only enough parts to make 1 turnout) = £68.00 Or C&L ready built £129.00 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted December 21, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 21, 2016 If instead of buying in the crossing, blades you had made your own (after all you are making a new crossing for the Peco one) that would be a quite saving. Things like the gauges are one offs so the cost is spread over as many turnouts as you need. So really all you need are the chairs, timbers and rail. The stretcher bars were the same for both. If you buy C+L chairs for a turnout £16, Turnout timbers £9 3 lengths of rail £10.80 (but cheaper if bought in bulk) is cheaper than the Peco and even cutting up chairs for the special chairs I believe gives a better result than the peco. at less cost. I buy in timbers in strip from Timber tracks plus big bags of plain sleepers, chairs in bulk bags and rail in bulk so I build them cheaper than that. Plus I can build a turnout to any size I want. You can use templot to print templates but I built the first ones from the tables of leads for various crossings with no template just a few construction marks on the baseboard rather as a ganger would on the ground. Of course if you don't enjoy making track you may prefer to buy Peco. Somehow I don't think you would be modifying the Peco one if you do not enjoy track building but maybe I am wrong on that. If other the other hand it is cost you are worried about cut your own timbers from thin ply, veneer or delaminating bits of ply, thick card or whatever you have to hand. You can use brass tacks or pieces of scrap etched expoxied to the timers and solder the rail to that using a blob to represent the chair. It will lack the detail of the C&L chairs but ballasted and weathered it can look quite reasonable. What you must avoid is mixing such basic trackwork with some using the detailed chairs. The contrast shows up the deficiences of the basic track, whereas used on its own the lack of detail is less obvious as you focus on the stock rather than the track. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenmodelmonkey Posted December 21, 2016 Author Share Posted December 21, 2016 If instead of buying in the crossing, blades you had made your own (after all you are making a new crossing for the Peco one) that would be a quite saving. Things like the gauges are one offs so the cost is spread over as many turnouts as you need. So really all you need are the chairs, timbers and rail. The stretcher bars were the same for both. If you buy C+L chairs for a turnout £16, Turnout timbers £9 3 lengths of rail £10.80 (but cheaper if bought in bulk) is cheaper than the Peco and even cutting up chairs for the special chairs I believe gives a better result than the peco. at less cost. I buy in timbers in strip from Timber tracks plus big bags of plain sleepers, chairs in bulk bags and rail in bulk so I build them cheaper than that. Plus I can build a turnout to any size I want. You can use templot to print templates but I built the first ones from the tables of leads for various crossings with no template just a few construction marks on the baseboard rather as a ganger would on the ground. Of course if you don't enjoy making track you may prefer to buy Peco. Somehow I don't think you would be modifying the Peco one if you do not enjoy track building but maybe I am wrong on that. If other the other hand it is cost you are worried about cut your own timbers from thin ply, veneer or delaminating bits of ply, thick card or whatever you have to hand. You can use brass tacks or pieces of scrap etched expoxied to the timers and solder the rail to that using a blob to represent the chair. It will lack the detail of the C&L chairs but ballasted and weathered it can look quite reasonable. What you must avoid is mixing such basic trackwork with some using the detailed chairs. The contrast shows up the deficiences of the basic track, whereas used on its own the lack of detail is less obvious as you focus on the stock rather than the track. Don Hi Don cost is not an issue but finding something that looks the part is and was just responding to your question. So, as all commercially available track parts are a compromise when it comes to fit, form and function then a compromise has to be made in producing an end product which will satisfy me. However I wanted to see if Peco product could be improved on and with a little work it can. For all Peco faults (and I really do understand what these are) C&L/Exactoscale products have as many faults and issues also so it's a toss up as to what direction I was going to go. So as you can see I have been experimenting and hope it has been helpful to others. For me I have learnt much and will proceed down the scratch build route but will have to accept the compromises this will throw up. The main compromise is that I will be using Peco 'sort of' bullhead rail instead of C&L Bullhead rail section as Peco rail fits C&L/Exactoscale chairs better than the C&L rail section does (see my earlier posts on). So I'm not suggesting what's best just what's possible if you want to scratch build or not. I have also seen/held some 3D printed GWR slide chairs for 7mm, now this will change things! (and they fitted the rail section that other chairs did not). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 I have built very few turnouts in 0 gauge and do accept that for some using pre-made parts or adapting a ready to run item is a viable option, in addition the quality of detail on a Peco 0 gauge turnout may be rather superior to those offered in 00 gauge (which are in fact H0 scale), but your costings for a C&L turnout do seem a bit high On price you can go both minimalist or the whole hog buying detailed chairs from either C&L, Exactoscale or 3D printed parts. Doing the former route and buying packs (how many modellers settle fot 1 turnout?), 3 lengths of rail would cost £8, basic chairs £6.00 (ish), ply timbers about £3. Most modellers will have a set of basic tools, gauges will be required if even re-working a RTR product, though it is quite easy to build your own from either some sheet metal or studding with nuts and washers. So for the price of a Peco turnout you could build 3 turnouts for the price of a new ready to lay item If you wanted to go down the more detailed route you could buy 3D printed parts from "Off the Rails" in the Shapeways collection or some items from the C&L/Exactoscale ranges. But the main reason for self build is not being restricted to the ready to run geometry, with the added benefit for some of the satisfaction of having built something oneself Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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