Prometheus Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 I've managed to acquire [quite cheaply] two of these interesting vintage models and plan to restore them. They are currently enjoying a refreshing bath in Mr Muscle! Smooth, free running will be an essential but that should not be too difficult to attain. One will keep its duckets, the other will have the ducket area sheeted over. The underframe is a problem for me however. The model is extremely sparse in this area and both have just a white metal gas tank. I have not been able to find any illustrations of this area either. Can anyone either post one or point me in the right direction please ? Russell has not been particularly helpful. Thanks for your help. Tonhy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 I've managed to acquire [quite cheaply] two of these interesting vintage models and plan to restore them. They are currently enjoying a refreshing bath in Mr Muscle! Smooth, free running will be an essential but that should not be too difficult to attain. One will keep its duckets, the other will have the ducket area sheeted over. The underframe is a problem for me however. The model is extremely sparse in this area and both have just a white metal gas tank. I have not been able to find any illustrations of this area either. Can anyone either post one or point me in the right direction please ? Russell has not been particularly helpful. Thanks for your help. Tonhy Neither will have duckets or have had them, it's a Great Western vehicle!. Generally with these Dean 40' Brake Vans it's just brake rodding and a centre step in addition to the gas tank. Have you got Russell vol 1? I agree, they are not great pictures of the u/f Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prometheus Posted June 4, 2016 Author Share Posted June 4, 2016 Yes, thanks, I've looked through Russell. Not great photos as you say. They'll have to do though. But, if you don't regard the side lookouts as duckets, what would you call them ? Thanks Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 Underframe details depend on what era you want your K15+ to be. These vehicles were long lived and rebuilt several times. As an an example, here is one of mine rebuilt with corridor connections, electric lighting and look outs removed. It still retains the Dean bogies but I have others running on Americans. Advice find a dated image and model to that. The image below is based on an actual van in the late 1920's rebuilt to K twenty something, I cannot remember which Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prometheus Posted June 4, 2016 Author Share Posted June 4, 2016 That's the era Mike, but sans corridor connections and running with gas. Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 Yes, thanks, I've looked through Russell. Not great photos as you say. They'll have to do though. But, if you don't regard the side lookouts as duckets, what would you call them ? Thanks Tony "look outs". "Duckets" is a vulgar term used by Other Railways who would stoop to any terminological indecency, such as calling Van Thirds "Brake Thirds"! Great model, Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinT Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 These vehicles were described in a series of 3 articles in Model Railway Constructor (June, August, & September 1967). They covered all diagrams for Dean 40ft PBVs - ie K1, K2, K3, K4, K5, K11, K14, K15, K16, also the similar L7 & M2. The drawings (by John Binnie & so not official GW drawings) shew 2 7ft gas cylinders - side by side. (See his drawings for a K3 on page 50 of Russell vol 1). It's not obvious from the photos with the articles, or in Russell how many there are! A visit to inspect the K14 at Didcot would be useful - can anyone help? The really good news is that the Great Western Study Group plan to publish a booklet on these vehicles - an update to the MRC articles. A date of Summer 2016 was given in the GWSG's recent Newsletter. I'll update this thread when it appears. HTH Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prometheus Posted June 4, 2016 Author Share Posted June 4, 2016 "look outs". "Duckets" is a vulgar term used by Other Railways who would stoop to any terminological indecency, such as calling Van Thirds "Brake Thirds"! Great model, Mike Very well - mea maxima culpa - thanks ! Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prometheus Posted June 4, 2016 Author Share Posted June 4, 2016 ....and thank you Martin also - that's helpful. I missed that drawing in Russell. I'd also noticed however some variety in lookout size from various internet photos. It's a little bit of a minefield this one. Mine will, inevitably, err on the side of generic I think. Probably not quite as generic as the Keyser model though ! Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 At the last count I have two or three of these (one still in shrink wrap). On eBay they are either expensive or cheap. The last one I got has been made up with the body and roof which came with something else I bought really as an add on, bogies I paid a couple of quid for the bogies and the other castings came with something totally unrelated. I guess you could call it a free kit other than the bogies, a new set of wheels (original kits came with old style Romfords) and some buffers. Do I take it that Mr Muscle is safe with plastics ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinT Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 Advice find a dated image and model to that. The image below is based on an actual van in the late 1920's rebuilt to K twenty something, I cannot remember which k27.jpg A K15 (ie it has corridor connections) without lookouts became a K25 - but so apparently did K14s & K16s. Dates for removal of lookouts are given in the MRC articles (generally between 1919 & 1930). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prometheus Posted June 4, 2016 Author Share Posted June 4, 2016 Do I take it that Mr Muscle is safe with plastics ? I have had no problems with it to date. In fact the only models I have not been able to use it on with effect are Wrenn locos, where the paintwork is baked. I've had to resort to bead-blasting there. Plastic seems to shrug off paint without damage to itself. If concerned however, try it first on an inconspicuous part. Tony Advice find a dated image and model to that. The image below is based on an actual van in the late 1920's rebuilt to K twenty something, I cannot remember which k27.jpg A K15 (ie it has corridor connections) without lookouts became a K25 - but so apparently did K14s & K16s. Dates for removal of lookouts are given in the MRC articles (generally between 1919 & 1930). Thanks. And a nice construction, too. Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold unravelled Posted June 5, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 5, 2016 Out of interest, how long lived were these? What is the latest date they would be seen in a general parcels train. Thanks Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinT Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 Out of interest, how long lived were these? What is the latest date they would be seen in a general parcels train. Condemnation dates are given in the MRC articles. As a general rule: the earliest designs, K1, K2, K3 (mostly conversions from broad gauge design) went in the period 1929 - 1935; K4, K5, & K11 designs (2 double doors per side) went in the 1930s, a couple made it to 1947, whilst K4 of 1889 lasted until May 1951; The later K14, K15, K16 designs (4 double doors per side, corridors on K15s) generally went in the period 1944 - 1949, altho' K16 1106 of 1899 lasted until April 1951, & K15 236 of 1904 until April 1952. (K16s had ends panelled to allow corridor connections to be fitted but none were ever converted). Having said all that quite a few were converted to departmental use - Stores vans, Hotel Dept. vans, Tunnel Inspection vans, Mess & Tool vans, etc. Conversion dates for these are given but not withdrawal dates - some would have lasted into the 1950s. Interestingly K14 933 (now at Didcot) has a condemnation date of February 1949 - but no indication of conversion to departmental use. On the Didcot website it is claimed: 'it remained in service until the late 1950s before becoming an office inside Hockley Goods shed' . I suspect the condemnation date is correct but that conversion to departmental use was not recorded in the official registers. BTW: 933, restored to Edwardian glory, looks beautiful, see: http://www.didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/coaches/933/933.html Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 Out of interest, how long lived were these? What is the latest date they would be seen in a general parcels train. Thanks Dave This similar K14 lived long enough to be preserved. https://www.flickr.com/photos/camperdown/8447794649 Towards the end of their lives they were used on all sorts of duties. the PW department claimed some for tunnel vans, fitted with roof walk ways. The Laundry Department used them on the linen duties, with vans attached to various trains delivering the linen to the various depots for hotels, sleeping and dining cars. As for dates, I would have to hit the research folders. Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold unravelled Posted June 5, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 5, 2016 Thank you both for that info. I can now not look for a kit as it would stretch even my rule one elastic too far. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crichel Down Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Very well - mea maxima culpa - thanks ! Tony Neither of the above, actually. The GWR always referred to them simply as "projections". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinT Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 The drawings (by John Binnie & so not official GW drawings) shew 2 7ft gas cylinders - side by side. (See his drawings for a K3 on page 50 of Russell vol 1). It's not obvious from the photos with the articles, or in Russell how many there are! A visit to inspect the K14 at Didcot would be useful - can anyone help? Well, a visit to Didcot today (primarily for the GW Study Group Members' Day & AGM) has allowed me to answer my own question. The K14 933 has 2 cylinders (7ft by 18" dia) as shewn by the Binnie drawings in the MRC article & in Russell. The single casting (8ft by 18") provided in my Blacksmith K15 kit is therefore probably incorrect. I had already thought this would be the case & had replaced it by 2 7ft cylinders from David Geen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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