mcrook62 Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 Hi All 7mm modellers I am having problems with Peco O gauge points they switch ok by DCC but the train reaches the points they stall and I have looked to see if the blades are making contact they seem to be but if I hold the blade and rail together with some long nose pliers the train starts but the second I take the pressure of it stops is their a away of wiring up the blades with out causing a short or am I missing something, when I laid my track and points everything ran ok no problems then I ballasted the track and part of the points made sure no pva glue did not touch the working parts, cleaned and tidy up the track and points hovered but now the loco stops on the points and it's driving me nuts So any solutions are get a round's I will be very grateful I just want to run my trains Regards Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 Michael, There is a " best practice " way of wiring points, which I believe some Peco points do not follow: The frog should be isolated from closure rails and exit rails (4 places) and switched by an external switch. The closure rails and blades should be bonded to adjacent stock rails The exit rails should (for DCC) be bonded to the "same hand" stock rail. Frog switching using the blades is unreliable, and may also lead to short circuits from the backs of wheels, and should be avoided. HTH Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Michael A further thought. Get an old toothbrush and scrub the flange ways between the blades & stock rails. It might be a simple help. Best Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jintyman Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 What he said ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I've recently built a turnout and fitted jumper wires out of 0.7mm brass wire to give a good connection between the stock rail and the switch rail. here are two pictures of the wire before and after soldering. Note you may not have the same room available as me as you will have lumps of plastic between the sleepers. One of the differences between my handbuilt track and Peco is that I use a 'one piece' switch rail, there is no joint, so you may need a small wire bonded across at the joint on your Peco unit. Hope that helps? Jinty Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Freeman Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Hi All 7mm modellers I am having problems with Peco O gauge points they switch ok by DCC but the train reaches the points they stall and I have looked to see if the blades are making contact they seem to be but if I hold the blade and rail together with some long nose pliers the train starts but the second I take the pressure of it stops is their a away of wiring up the blades with out causing a short or am I missing something, when I laid my track and points everything ran ok no problems then I ballasted the track and part of the points made sure no pva glue did not touch the working parts, cleaned and tidy up the track and points hovered but now the loco stops on the points and it's driving me nuts So any solutions are get a round's I will be very grateful I just want to run my trains Regards Michael Unfortunately Peco turnouts in both 7mm and 4mm scale are renowned for this problem. You really need to bond the blades to the stock rails, however this will cause a short as the vee is connected to both blades and relies on the dodgy blade contact to feed the correct polarity. So you'll need to break the wire links under the turnout but as you have already stuck the turnouts down this would be a tad difficult. So you will have to introduce some isolating gaps in the switch rails (but not the parts that move).and use some other means of switching the polarity. The best method to employ depends largely on how you switch the blades. If by hand, then either a frog juicer or micro-switch. Most other methods of switching the blades can take advantage of built in contacts in either the electric switch or turnout motor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davan Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Hi Michael, Like you I use Peco points. Like you I didn't wire them as suggested and, initially, suffered from the same problems after ballasting as you are. I used a fine emery stick between the point blades and stock rail and held them together with gentle pressure and rubbed the emery stick back and forth and then brushed any debris clear. On some that was all that was needed, on others it took a few goes, but, they all now work and I just brush between the blades and stock rails from time to time.My Points are operated by hand and I get faultless running. One other problem that arose was that the connector between the moving and fixed part of the blade didn't always make full contact either. I applied gentle pressure to them to check and then gave them a sharp tap with a small screwdriver and hammer to make the joint better. That too has worked for me. Once the points are down, this is the easiest way and saves wiring everything up again. Not, I accept, the best way, but, it has worked well for me. Regards, Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John R Smith Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 I know it flies in the face of accepted best practice, but in reality there is no reason why the contact between the switch blade and the stock rail should not make a perfectly good switch, provided both surfaces are clean. After all, the contact area is generous, and the pressure provided by the over-centre spring should be ample. The fact that the Peco turnouts work just fine before they are painted and ballasted just proves the point. Starting from scratch, it would probably be best to purchase the micro-switches sold separately by Peco and wire the turnouts as described very clearly in the instructions which come in the box. However, as you have already laid and ballasted the track you will probably be OK just following Dave's advice above. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMR CHRIS Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 I use DCC so have made the peco points on my small railway fully DCC friendly with all the parts electrically live all the time with a Tam Valley frog juicer used to automatically change the polarity of the crossing V (frog) you can even trail through a point that is incorrectly set without creating a short The peco links to the frog were cut and the closure rails and blades electrically linked to the the joining outer rail on each side I did the modifications before installing but it is possible to achieve the same result after installing by using a hobby micro saw blade or using a Dremel with a cutting disc to cut the rails before the frog and then use a micro switch that is designed to fit directly into the box above the tie bar all the mounts are under the cover, or use the contacts on a point motor switch or manual switch, then place some small jumper wires to the blades etc and you will have faultless running as their are no longer ang reliance on friction contact for good conductivity. Refer to the Peco instruction sheets or the peco web site for further info on the links sorry don't have a point that isn't fitted to a layout to show the links on the under side they also have wiring guides Some harsh close up Photos of my points and the electrical links These joiners on the blade are usually very loose and can allow the blades to twist with the weight of a loco or rolling stock passing over giving poor contact. l install a flexible wire link to the outer rail Outer rails linked to closure rails Remove the links below this part however if you have already installed the point use a micro saw or Dremel cutting disc to isolate the two rails one or two sleepers ahead of the frog The box sometimes referred to as the coffin above the tie bar is designed to house a micro switch readily available from electrical part stores recommend if you use this method to change the frog polarity pre wire the micro switch before installing Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 John The reason why, sooner or later, they don't work well is precisely because the contact area is big - so the pressure is limited. This is compounded by a lack of "wiping action" to clean the contact faces as they operate - knife switches and their like are self cleaning in this regard And whilst painting & ballasting certainly don't help, the contact gaps are just sitting there with the dust and debris of everyday life falling into them all the time - even worse when track cleaning. Of course peco are interested in selling at a profit and their objectives might be more aligned with the foam rubber ballast and minimum wiring market than with those of us who get down & dirty! So the counsel of perfection is a separate, dust proof switch. Not easy once the track is down and ballasted, I agree, but hopefully the advice about cleaning will do the trick in this case Best Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John R Smith Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Simon I do completely agree with you that a switched crossing is by far the most elegant and reliable system. It's just that in this instance the track is already laid, which makes things more tricky. From a practical point of view, I have had a standard Peco L/H turnout on my little test track since December, in use most nights, not painted or ballasted but just hooked up with rail joiners, and the switch rail polarity change using the blades has been just fine. The bits which did fail quite rapidly were the rail joiners in the switch rails which soon failed to convey any volts at all. I soldered a jumper wire across this and all was well. Best wishes John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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