Which unrebuilt Light Pacifics have been released in the last decade?

[mightbe]

Hi all, I'm trying to survey my options at the moment for an unrebuilt--preferably late crest/cut down tender--spam can. The trouble I'm finding is that the Collector Guide only goes up to 2010, and it might be easier to track down models released after that. Ebay itself is a clogged mess of poorly-labelled items, but I'm thinking I could have better luck if knew specifically which locos have been put out to market.

 

Another reason I'm keen on a more recent release is because the size of the BR lining appears to have been reduced some time before that date, as Blandford Forum has (what seem to me to be) elegant, thin lines whereas those on Wilton/Weymouth look heavy and thick.

 

With that in mind, does anyone know which ones have been released since 2010? 

 

Quentin

 

EDIT: Here's a link to a photo which illustrates the difference I'm talking about: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/92855-Hornby-exeter/?p=1686456 Note that 222 Squadron looks to have much thinner, more realistically-sized lining, while Exeter in the background looks comparatively unrefined

[roundhouse]

Exeter is a more recent release than 222 Squadron

[Dunsignalling]

You don't mention if you want one to use "as-is" or for renaming.

 

If the latter, the current 'Bude' won't be much use. Her long smoke deflectors made her unique among locos with cut down tenders. 'Yeovil' and 'Barnstaple' only had theirs modified at rebuilding. 

 

There haven't been many released since 2010 that don't have full-height tenders; the only other one that springs immediately to mind is 'Winston Churchill' in the Funeral Train pack. This is also still relatively easy to find new.

 

You are presumably not in a position to attend UK swapmeets but older models do turn up fairly regularly, though which ones become available is obviously random.

 

Swapmeet prices for mint/near mint examples are generally nearer those of recent new models than the £70-£80 that many cost when new, but a little under what tends to rule on eBay etc. Hatton's pre-owned prices also tend to be a little on the 'chunky' side but for someone in your location will be worth keeping an eye on.

 

To expand on Roundhouse's comment, I think the model of  '222 Squadron' dates from 2005 or thereabouts.

 

John

[roundhouse]

I picked up a mint WIlton back in May from a second hand stall at a show for £68.00 but that was very lucky.

 

Older ones such as WIlton and Weymouth have a lot of compensation spring in the rear driver compared ot newer ones so the loco needs extra weight to the front of the body / chassis. Also newer ones have an 8 pin DCC socket and better tender to body connections (assuming that you prefer that pesky little plastic plug and socket). However Wilton does generally give more options for renaming to other locos.

 

Winston Churchill has been released before so the older one will be much similar ot WIlton than the much more recent release. I have one of each although the newer one has been renamed.

 

Unfortunately I don't record the Hornby R number nor the dates that they were released as I only record the name etc that I have converted them into plus type of decoder and the like.

[toboldlygo]

R2926 34107 Blandford Forum, springs to mind as well - though that is a Series II: 9' wide cab and cut-down 5,500gl tender

[mightbe]

Roundhouse-Why would Hornby's standards regress like that? Do they possibly employ two different types of lining?

 

John-I would want one more-or-less as-is. The less that has to be done 'upstairs', the better, since I'll be doing a lot of work underneath to convert it to P4. And you presume correct.

 

The cut down tender isn't vital, but the two parameters I'd like to maintain are late crest and the finer lining. If nothing else, the finer lining because of the work involved in changing it. (I'll have to consult the Bulleid society page to see which ones of those kept their early emblems into the 1959-1964 period)

 

Quentin

 

Edited title and first post; I should have said unrebuilt. 

[roundhouse]

Not having an Exeter due do it being a high sided earlier livery I hadnt noticed the difference in the lining till your post. I also hadnt noticed such difference between WIlton and the newer Winston Churchill so will have a closer look next time I dig it out.

 

I can only guess its due to the change in factory if its the 2nd batch of Exeters

 

some people prefer unmodified to unrebuilt description but I like unrebuilt.

[Dunsignalling]

Roundhouse-Why would Hornby's standards regress like that? Do they possibly employ two different types of lining?

 

John-I would want one more-or-less as-is. The less that has to be done 'upstairs', the better, since I'll be doing a lot of work underneath to convert it to P4. And you presume correct.

 

The cut down tender isn't vital, but the two parameters I'd like to maintain are late crest and the finer lining. If nothing else, the finer lining because of the work involved in changing it. (I'll have to consult the Bulleid society page to see which ones of those kept their early emblems into the 1959-1964 period)

 

Quentin

 

Edited title and first post; I should have said unrebuilt. 

Late crests on high sided tenders were rare - Lord Beaverbrook, Hawkinge, Manston, 222 Squadron, all carried them; there were a couple more that I'd have to look up but those are definite. In most other cases, application of late crest coincided with modification of the tender.

 

Lord Beaverbrook and Manston subsequently had their tenders cut down but those attached to the other two remained unmodified until withdrawal.  

 

The original model of Tangmere is an easy base for producing Hawkinge - just needs renumbering, new plates and a change of tender emblem. Hornby's recent Manston should just need the emblem changing, though it only stayed that way for a year or so.

 

John

[toboldlygo]

Roundhouse-Why would Hornby's standards regress like that? Do they possibly employ two different types of lining?

 

John-I would want one more-or-less as-is. The less that has to be done 'upstairs', the better, since I'll be doing a lot of work underneath to convert it to P4. And you presume correct.

 

The cut down tender isn't vital, but the two parameters I'd like to maintain are late crest and the finer lining. If nothing else, the finer lining because of the work involved in changing it. (I'll have to consult the Bulleid society page to see which ones of those kept their early emblems into the 1959-1964 period)

 

Quentin

 

Edited title and first post; I should have said unrebuilt. 

 

Air-Smoothed rather than unrebuilt - the men in Malachite Green & Sunshine Striped Robes don't like that term 

 

Quick guide to the subtle differences (does not include the train packs):

 

R22xx batch of releases - sprung rear drivers and thick lining on boiler cladding

 

R23xx " " " - NEM socket on tender and front bogie

 

R24xx " " " - Loco chassis revised with DCC socket & rear drivers (not sprung), finer lining on boiler cladding.

 

R25xx " " " - Same as R24xx batch, only Series 2 released with a 4,500gl tender.

 

R26xx " " " - First appearance of Long Smoke deflectors - all Malachite Green releases

 

R29xx " " " - Tender altered to cater for DCC Sound, plug connection & a slightly darker shade of green.

 

R3115 Exeter - Last SK model, not made in the numbers that were expected (hence an A version below) - reverted to thicker lining

 

R3115A & Beyond - Boiler Cladding Lining much finer, 2 of the 3 released, have had AWS boxes fitted by mistake (Exeter & Manston)

[mightbe]

Excellent information on the R numbers! 

 

From that list I can surmise, with the help of the semgonline page, that only 222 Squadron and Blandform Forum fit what I'm looking for, so all I have to do now is wait for one to pop up on Ebay. (I have found exactly one from an online retailer...but I'm thinking their price is on the high side, to say nothing of their international shipping!)

 

Quentin

[Ian Hargrave]

Excellent information on the R numbers!

 

From that list I can surmise, with the help of the semgonline page, that only 222 Squadron and Blandform Forum fit what I'm looking for, so all I have to do now is wait for one to pop up on Ebay. (I have found exactly one from an online retailer...but I'm thinking their price is on the high side, to say nothing of their international shipping!)

 

Quentin

34107 goes for silly money,if it does occasionally appear. 222 is also a rarity. Problem is that BR Hornby Bulleids have become style icons and attract the carpetbaggers who are only intent on lining their pockets.Good luck !

[Ozexpatriate]

Why would Hornby's standards regress like that? Do they possibly employ two different types of lining?

The original Hornby BoB/West Country models were made at Sanda Kan. At it's height it had truly excellent tampo printing machines. Sanda Kan went out of business in 2008, but that factory continued to operate for some years under the ownership of Kader Holdings - the parent of Bachmann Branch-Line.

 

Kader eventually closed the old Sanda Kan factories and Hornby moved their production to multiple different factories. Many of these have different printing capabilities which can easily explain why the application of lining can vary quite dramatically even with quite new releases.

 

You can see a discussion on Hornby's factories here.

[Ian Hargrave]

Excellent information on the R numbers! 

 

From that list I can surmise, with the help of the semgonline page, that only 222 Squadron and Blandform Forum fit what I'm looking for, so all I have to do now is wait for one to pop up on Ebay. (I have found exactly one from an online retailer...but I'm thinking their price is on the high side, to say nothing of their international shipping!)

 

Quentin

Just run my 34078. After 10 years still a smooth runner and the paint job and lining as good if not better than the recent releases.Seven Hornby Maunsells and two Bachmann Bulleids behind,she made an interesting contrast with the Lyme Regis branch train and its antique Adams Radial. I'll try out 34107 tomorrow.

[Guest]

Late crests on high sided tenders were rare - Lord Beaverbrook, Hawkinge, Manston, 222 Squadron, all carried them; there were a couple more that I'd have to look up but those are definite. In most other cases, application of late crest coincided with modification of the tender.

34072 "257 Squadron" being one more.

[Guest]

Since the tooling is 'getting on' a bit now without too much external modification, if you're renumbering/renaming, you don't have to worry about the buffer shanks. With the rebuilt tooling, being more modern, you do.

 

Regards,
Matt

[Guest]

Excellent information on the R numbers! 

 

From that list I can surmise, with the help of the semgonline page, that only 222 Squadron and Blandform Forum fit what I'm looking for, so all I have to do now is wait for one to pop up on Ebay. (I have found exactly one from an online retailer...but I'm thinking their price is on the high side, to say nothing of their international shipping!)

 

Quentin

Bear in mind, the semg list (http://www.semgonline.com/model/lpvar.html) does have a mistake with regards to 34078 "222 Squadron". It's listed as having a 4500g High-Sided tender, but in reality the model was released with the 5500 High-Sided variant.

 

If you buy 34107 "Blandford Forum", beware the model is incorrectly fitted with the front fairings. These had been removed by the time the locos tender was cut-down.

 

Regards,

Matt

[mightbe]

Thanks for all the info. Lots of interesting detail variations.

 

It also appears that the loco in the R3300 Churchill Funeral Pack has the superior lining. Those packs seem far easier to source, though I can't say I either want or need the Pullmans. The converted baggage car seems to be a much older model, with chunkier details.

 

Quentin

[Ian Hargrave]

Thanks for all the info. Lots of interesting detail variations.

 

It also appears that the loco in the R3300 Churchill Funeral Pack has the superior lining. Those packs seem far easier to source, though I can't say I either want or need the Pullmans. The converted baggage car seems to be a much older model, with chunkier details.

 

Quentin

FYI.......the "funeral car" dates back to the Triang years and carries the couplings to prove it.Not IMHO Hornby's best.

 

 

Can't speak for the representation of 34051 but remember that was first modelled in 2004.The matter of a definition of a "superior lining" is a matter of personal judgement.There is no benchmark standard here and each Bulleid aficionado will have his own spin on that.

[Dunsignalling]

Late crests on high sided tenders were rare - Lord Beaverbrook, Hawkinge, Manston, 222 Squadron, all carried them; there were a couple more that I'd have to look up but those are definite. In most other cases, application of late crest coincided with modification of the tender.

 

Lord Beaverbrook and Manston subsequently had their tenders cut down but those attached to the other two remained unmodified until withdrawal.  

 

The original model of Tangmere is an easy base for producing Hawkinge - just needs renumbering, new plates and a change of tender emblem. Hornby's recent Manston should just need the emblem changing, though it only stayed that way for a year or so.

 

John

34096 'Trevone' also carried a late crest on a high-sided tender for a while before rebuilding (when the tender was cut down).

 

However, she had already lost her original 5500 gallon tender, and received one of the smaller type. 

 

John