St Cuthbert's - Moving On To Construction (plans)

[iL Dottore]

Now that I have received my baseboard packs and can start assembling the underpinnings of my layout (tentatively entititled "St Cuthbert's" [as I am a fan of of the famus Nigel Molesworth who went to skool at St Custard's - wich I hav asumed is his ironronic reference to a St Cuthbert's as any fule kno] - hem, hem*).

 

As my knowledge of track layout and correct signalling is tenuous at best, I commissioned Mr Iain Rice to help design a plan for the layout - the end result is seen below (the original is a large scale plan, beautifully sketched out and coloured in with water colours - a true work of art).

 

 

The only changes I will be making will be to flip the design so that the junction (currently at bottom of image) will be at the top and thus against the layout room wall and to resite the liftout section (which will take a little figuring out). The layout is approximately 4 "and a bit" metres x "almost" 4 metres

 

Finally, the track design was put together to allow for the use of PECO flextrack - but I may move on to TILLIG track and perhaps try my hand at building a few turnouts :icon_eek:

 

F

 

* Nigel Molesworth, the iconic grubby little skoolboy created by Geoffrey Willans and Ronald Searle, was a childhood (and adult) favourite of mine. His despairing parents shipped him off to some remote, minor, public boarding school - which I have assumed is in the little market town of my layout

[Donw]

Was there a question in there? St Custards sounds great. Put a big church on the backscene. Also are you using DC or DCC. Did Ian give you a signalling plan?

Donw

[iL Dottore]

Hi Don

 

Will go DCC

 

The signallling plan IS on drawing - but at this magnification almost impossible to make out.

 

No questions, but all comments welcomed

 

F

[Mikkel]

This looks impressive! Knowing Mr Rice's artwork I'm sure the original is a delightful study in itself.

 

Re-siting the liftout section does seem to be a tricky one. The only simple option seem to be on the r/h side (of the drawing), by the crossing keepers cottage. But that all has to do with what your available room allows for of course...

 

 

[Flying Pig]

Sorry to be negative, but to be honest, I'm not convinced of the practicality of the staging (fiddle yard) on this plan. Unless you can leave good access space outside the layout, it's going to be a long reach across the branch terminus - up to 4' in the top left corner I reckon (there, that's saved Kenton a post ) - to swap stock or sort out derailments. And considering that the layout includes branch and main line running, there aren't an awful lot of staging roads, so you probably will want to swap stock.

 

I also find the layout of the junction a little unrealistic. I can see that it's intended to provide a double junction to a single track branch within the constraints of fixed geometry track, loco runround off the main line and a goods loop to boot, but the result looks a little forced to me.

 

Personally, I think I'd simplify the junction to a single lead as drawn below. While I don't think this is strictly prototypical before about the 1960s (Stationmaster has posted on the subject recently and will be worth checking!) it does give a slightly more natural appearance. Note that as I've sketched it it would need a Peco curved turnout which involves a tightish radius on the diverging road.

 

Alternatively, I've sketched what I *think* the original prototype layout would be, though this would need handbuilding (it isn't a single slip!).

 

Note that I've also ditched the loco spur to give additional space to the somewhat cramped goods yard. I'd run the branch shuttle from the bay (it has to be there for something!) using an autotrain or railcar.

 

 

PS - forget the church in the backscene. A large dilapidated building incorporating an observatory for worms and a round thing which hav no use at all would super smashing ect ect

[tebee]

Yes I don't like the junction either - I can see why he's done it that way, to give maximum flexibility and to avoid blocking the main with branch run round movements, but I don't think it's very prototypical and I cannot see it working well in practice. In particular trains entering the branch platform off the main have to negotiate a double reverse curve over the double slip - not what you want for long passenger stock.

 

I'm not sure what the the right prototype solution would be - A double slip replacing the diamond in the double junction perhaps ?

 

Tom

[iL Dottore]

Sorry to be negative, but to be honest, I'm not convinced of the practicality of the staging (fiddle yard) on this plan. Unless you can leave good access space outside the layout, it's going to be a long reach across the branch terminus - up to 4' in the top left corner I reckon (there, that's saved Kenton a post ) - to swap stock or sort out derailments. And considering that the layout includes branch and main line running, there aren't an awful lot of staging roads, so you probably will want to swap stock.

 

Quite. That's why the design will be "flipped" upside down and the fiddle yard will now NOT be against the wall, but at the "open room" side of the layout allowing for easy access.

 

I also find the layout of the junction a little unrealistic. I can see that it's intended to provide a double junction to a single track branch within the constraints of fixed geometry track, loco runround off the main line and a goods loop to boot, but the result looks a little forced to me.

 

Personally, I think I'd simplify the junction to a single lead as drawn below. ....Alternatively, I've sketched what I *think* the original prototype layout would be, though this would need handbuilding (it isn't a single slip!).

 

I'd have to sit down with this once I get to the track laying stage (I'm afraid that I can't quite visualise it 3-dimensionally ) and would contemplate using this plan. I'd also be willing to give handbuilding the single slip as well (as mentioned in OP [i think], my modelling skills have marched on since the commission and I think I could make a handbuilt slip)

 

Thanks for this very useful feedback

 

F

[Flying Pig]

Quite. That's why the design will be "flipped" upside down and the fiddle yard will now NOT be against the wall, but at the "open room" side of the layout allowing for easy access.

Ah - I should have read the text instead of just looking at the picture.

[Flying Pig]

Plan flipped and thoroughly discombobulated. Reversing the junction station allows for a longer unencumbered branch line and a reasonable attempt at the junction pointwork in Streamline (in case the other thread doesn't succeed in tempting you into the sinful pleasures of Templot). A simpler layout, but you can still berth an autotrain in the bay and the sidings can be shunted without fouling the main, as in the original. I call it Ecirton as it's not Rice and it's upside down.

 

[iL Dottore]

Many thanks FP (have sent a PM).

 

Now to figure out TRAX (I've got it so might as well use it!) and fine tune your and Mr Rice's track plans

 

F

[Donw]

I like the revised layout, but if it was for me I would try to fit a trailing crossover in to the left of the junction. Even if only used occasionally it would enable a run round move at the junction.

Donw

[iL Dottore]

FP: moving on from your excellent design - I thought I'd try pushing out the tracks towards the baseboard edges. The following powerpoint sketch shows my ideas:

 

The black lines are the new track curves (and I'm afraid that I have NO idea as to radius) and I have moved out edgewards the single track branchline (again, no idea as to radius). The veritical black line to the right is the baseboard edge and the greyed out areas will be covered by scenery. The idea is to push out the tracks to the maximum possible radii (I'm trying to avoid - as far as is possible - the "bum sticking out on a curve" with longer rolling stock that happens on tight curves). And yes I know that halfway down the baseboard the gentle double track curve tightens considerably (a problem that I couldn't overcome in powerpoint)

 

Obviously such a crude powerpoint sketch will need to be tweaked into usable design (for example: at present it looks like - from the sketch - that the branchline has a nice gentle curve and then would need to take a 90 degree turn to get to the terminus! )

 

I think that, this weekend, I will closet myself with a case of drink. my PC and TRAX and see if I can't do something better - drawing on everyone's excellent input

 

F

[Flying Pig]

I like the revised layout, but if it was for me I would try to fit a trailing crossover in to the left of the junction.

Something like this (crossover in black, train in red)? I wonder if anything like that was ever done - it looks a bit peculiar but not absolutely wrong and it fouls both main lines of course. I think I'd prefer to build a loop into the bay (blue) if absolutely necessary.

 

 

FP: moving on from your excellent design - I thought I'd try pushing out the tracks towards the baseboard edges. The following powerpoint sketch shows my ideas:

 

Hmm - to me the loss of separation between branch and main is of more visual consequence than the increase in radius, but IYTS. Perhaps you could tighten the branch a shade, as long as you weren't going to run the long carriages on it. No doubt if you drink enough spend long enough with TRAX, you'll be able to find a compromise.

 

To be honest, I think the trickiest part of this plan is going to be coming up with a workable set of hidden sidings that don't need you to go potholing every five minutes to set up a train.

[Hesperus]

Could gradiants be introduced to to let the fiddleyard sit below the terminus or even looping round to sit underneath the junction? That would hopefully give a little extra space to ease the curves. If you used drawer runners it could even pull out to change the stock (or double the capacity by working as a traverser)

[iL Dottore]

Could gradiants be introduced to to let the fiddleyard sit below the terminus or even looping round to sit underneath the junction? ...

 

I don't think that I'll be able to do that. Although the baseboards are open frame and will stand on their own legs, they'll actually be sited directly above some floor standing cabinets in the model railway room (that adequate storage remains in the room was condition laid down by Mrs iD) which doesn't give much space to play in. Drawer runners might be a feasible solution - I'll have to see.

 

Thanks to all for the feedback

 

F