XP64 class 47 colour match?

[Grasslands]

I have just purchased an FMR custom Bachmann XP64 and I am not convinced on the tone of the blue. I took it out the box and thought 'blimey that's a bit bright'.

 

I am considering a re-paint and was hoping that someone could advise on some suitable colour matches.

 

If anybody has a photo of the Heljan version of the loco that may help, or of course a photo of the real thing.

 

I might upload a photo of my version if anybody is interested to see the colour.

 

Cheers

 

Tom

[Flood]

When I replaced the handrails on the Heljan 47/8 I touched up with LNER garter blue. It's slightly too dark so probably best to mix up a slightly lighter version using garter blue as a base. Class47.co.uk has a number of colour photos of the loco as D1733 or 47853.

[BrushVeteran]

Try Railmatch faded BR blue. It was a very good match for my Heljan D1733's and can be toned down with Railmatch satin varnish to blend in with Heljan's paint finish.

[David Bigcheeseplant]

I used Pheonix faded BR blue mixed with a rather bright blue from the Humbrol range, the colour does seem to vary in photos, does anyone know the exact date the red backed arrows were removed, a friend of mine has one of the original vinals in his garage.

 

David

[BrushVeteran]

I used Pheonix faded BR blue mixed with a rather bright blue from the Humbrol range, the colour does seem to vary in photos, does anyone know the exact date the red backed arrows were removed, a friend of mine has one of the original vinals in his garage.

 

David

Hi David

I can well remember D1733 on Oxford shed on 1st July 1964 (my fourteenth birthday!)with the red panels flapping around in the breeze. I think they were made of paper with the red painted on top as they were ripped. By the end of the month they were all missing. At this time D1733 was virtually brand new and was a regular performer on the 'Pines Express' and 'York-Bournemouth duties where the loco change for the journey northwards was effected at Oxford. I have included a slightly blurred b&w shot of it entering Oxford station on 1O35 which was one of these duties. Hope this helps.

Grahame

[AberdeenBill]

Grahame -- you're far too modest. Another unique and remarkable photo; please keep them coming...

 

Bill

[Grasslands]

Nice photo Grahame

 

Having just wondered around Basingstoke model railway show today, I managed to get hold of a pot of rail match faded BR blue, which I also got a chance to compare to a Heljan XP64 (while cursing that I could have bought the Heljan version from the show, rather than repaint the FMR one ) and it looks like a close to perfect match, thanks everyone.

 

Was the brown underframe painted black eventually or is it just dirty in photos?

[Grasslands]

Here is the FMR custom, Obviously difficult to get the full idea from photos, so I have my class 07 in the background for context.

 

It just does not look quite right. I think the colour is right but it is too bright. If the XP64 was a TV I would turn the brightness down by about 3 notches

 

The matt paint work also does not settle with me

[David Bigcheeseplant]

The colour looks way too light, also I think the roof should be grey excluding the roof domes, The brown underframe I and not too sure about either was it painted this colour or was it just black and got dirty.

 

David

[David Bigcheeseplant]

This is D1733 I have been working on, as I said in my previous post the colour is BR faded Rail Blue with added Humbrol blue (cant rember the number but will look in my paintbox later) The model has been vanished with Ronsel exterior vanish as I couldn't get my nornal Ronsel Hard Glaze but it does seen very simular.

 

The gloss will be reduced in the weathering process, I have some PHD etched steps to solder up too. We have a photo of this loco on a train at Little Kimble with red panels so it must have got to Aylesbury.

 

David

[David Bigcheeseplant]

Looking at my paintbox it looks like I mixed Hunbrol No. 14 a gloss blue with Pheonix or Railmatch faded Rail blue, I am not sure what ratio in the mix I used but it was maybe two thirds or the quaters Rail blue and a third or quarter No.14.

 

Pheonix paints did say there was no colour sample or specification for the colour so thats the reason they have not got it in there range. I must admit at the moment without weathering the colour is a bit bright, hopefully in the next few weeks I can get some photos of the finished loco.

 

David

[cctransuk]

This is D1733 I have been working on ...David

 

Not wishing to sound a negative note, but I'm pretty sure that the 'green diesel' form of loco numbering was not used on D1733.

 

A small version of the Rail Alphabet, subsequently used on Rail Blue locos, was used, surely?

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Junction3]

The transfers used on both models look like Precision labels numbers for the D1733 Virgin repaint and are too large and not the correct font for the 1960's. Unfortunately the only altenative are the Fox versions which are larger still!

[Pennine MC]

I'd agree with the chaps above, that D1733 originally had Rail Alphabet numbers albeit smaller (similarly, early coaching stock/DMU repaints in the new livery had smaller numbers than were later standard). In fact it might be worth experimenting with standard-size coaching stock numbers for D1733 - they might not be spot on, but they'll look better than something of entirely the wrong font

[Natalie]

Hi

Regarding the smaller size Rail font numerals- I believe that the HMRS Transfer Sheet 15 has these on. According to the accompanying notes the following sizes of numerals are supplied:

 

150mm Standard size for locos

100mm Standard size for coaching stock but also used on some small shunters

75mm smaller size used on coaching stock when rail alphabet first introduced.

 

I think the shade of blue used depends on which version of the loco is being portrayed. I'm not sure what Russell Saxton's view is on this but I have long felt that the blue used on the Virgin repaint was a lot lighter than it appeared on the original 1964 scheme. I am aware that it was not conventional rail blue but not far away from it. (Incidentally I assume that the XP64 and the accompanying Mk1 coaches would also have carried the original shade of blue- wonder how long it lasted- probably until the first repaint which would also have removed the non standard cantrail stripes and square-edged grey panels. Assume that they would have been virtually indistinguishable from the standard repaints once the original paint had been in traffic for a while and begun to fade/weather.) How did Virgin come across their shade of blue- was it a case of using paint samples - which could may well have faded over thirty plus years which would account for the lightness.

[Grasslands]

 

I must admit at the moment without weathering the colour is a bit bright, hopefully in the next few weeks I can get some photos of the finished loco.

 

David

 

It is certainly not as light a shade as my one

 

I thought the font was okay, but I do not have my eye in for such things.

 

Am I right in thinking that in the late 60's XP64 also had the cab dome painted grey? It looks possible from class47.co.uk.

[VonkeyVong]

Found this http://www.nrm.org.uk/ourcollection/photo?group=British%20Transport%20Commission&objid=1996-7038_BTF_8105

 

The bogies and underframes look to be a very dark brown, almost black, and the cab roofs are the same colour as the rest of the body.

 

This is one I hope to paint up myself from a Heljan model I have.

[keefer]

the underframe/bogies/bufferbeam are often referred to as 'umber brown', i.e. definitely not black.

the only ref. i've read about the blue is that it was 'turquoise' and was lighter in shade than BR blue

 

thought there might be something in the BR Corporate Manual : http://www.doublearrow.co.uk/home.htm

 

but only found the paint spec. on  mk1 and 2 stock from Jan.1966:  http://www.doublearrow.co.uk/manual/4_103.1966-01.jpg

 

(full paint spec sheet from 1969: http://www.doublearrow.co.uk/manual/1_30.1969-01.jpg

note Rail Blue and Red were specially formulated colours which eventuall gained their own BS number

Rail Grey matched an existing BS colour

Dark Brown BS 3-039 (for 'underparts'!) is referred to as 'brake dust brown'!)

[Branksome71B]

This may help http://www.flickr.com/photos/david_christie/5692948774/