Zomboid Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 Why is it called the dark side anyway? Seems more enlightened round here than some of the other dark corners... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium skipepsi Posted October 28, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 28, 2016 Why is it called the dark side anyway? Seems more enlightened round here than some of the other dark corners... I am not sure to me modelling any foreign countries railways displays an open minded approach to the hobby. For me personally it looks right, what you see in photo's is what you see in model form. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 I thought that yesterday. Surely the dark side in this sub forum is UK modelling? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 The Dark Side; it goes back to the 1980's/early 90's. At that time the standard UK OO model diesel had a pancake motor driving one bogie, fairly coarse wheels (a.k.a. Lima Pizza Cutter) & rubber traction tyres, awful couplers & basic detail. A US HO diesel had a can motor, with flywheels, all axle drive, all wheel pickup, RP25 wheels, & couplers that looked like the prototype, & could work "hands free"- a mystery to many UK modellers. It could crawl along like no OO diesel, but cost about half the price. Such quality at such prices must have involved Witchcraft of some kind, hence "the Dark Side".... Here endeth the lesson. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 At least you have OHLE..!!! I bet there's a lot of those Class 'whatever'* models running around on layouts without it!! * I'm a bit of a numpty when it comes to Post-1985 UK trains I don't think the real one would like 600v DC through its pan, or DCC through the rails. What happened in 1985? Was that generally the year the railways died? (the YVT stopped freight that year too). I don't want to know how you managed to collate such a precise collection in such a short period of time... The 91 is from a club layout (although I sold the Mk4 set I had), the Oxford wagon was brought because I'm trying to collect wagons from colleries along the local Coventry-Nuneaton line, and the Clerestory coach is an impromptu rake to run behing a Bachmann City of Truro. It's my train set, etc.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 Why then, in the 7mm section, do they also use the phrase? Possibly due to the price factor of RTR; US models were a lot cheaper than UK, although the recent £-vs-$ rate hasn't helped in that regard, neither have the rocketing shipping costs from the US, & of course some RTR UK O prices are becoming more, er, "competitive", shall we say. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMO Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 Possibly due to the price factor of RTR; US models were a lot cheaper than UK, although the recent £-vs-$ rate hasn't helped in that regard, neither have the rocketing shipping costs from the US, & of course some RTR UK O prices are becoming more, er, "competitive", shall we say. We know exactly the same problem in France: 7 mm scale French models are very expensive and some of them don't run very well. I think we can use the "dark side" terms. "Dark side" can be said too when a French modeller don't model French trains: he is on the dark side... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMO Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 Carbon-black-side Carbon-dark-black-side Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 It seems to be a phrase in use, self-mockingly, for anything outside of the norm. Not sure what that makes North American S, within the UK. Welcome to the "carbon-black side"? A black hole Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
long island jack Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 I've always been a lover of the darkside, stout, porter, black IPA.............................! Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
w124bob Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 No, that would be ridiculous, and you'd never catch me doing it... IMAG2642_1.jpg Mock up of services for the new Keninworth service? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wollastonblue Posted October 31, 2016 Author Share Posted October 31, 2016 With regards to Manufacturers is there any I should avoid? For example I have found this on eBay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/HO-AHM-SANTA-FE-Alco-RS-2-Diesel-Locomotive-ATSF-5707-/302122269208?hash=item4657e3fa18:g:P5QAAOSwn7JYE~dP It seems really cheap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 I've no idea if AHM are good or not. It might be a million pounds in shipping from the US, it's probably not easily DCC fittable, and it looks pretty crude in terms of detail. A fictional livery too, AFAIK. Which is not to say you shouldn't get it if you like it and feel it's a decent price. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Simon's right about buying new. You can get a brand new DCC ready loco, which will look better and run better for well under £80 without really looking that hard. It's not peanuts, but for an inglenook style layout you only *need* one loco. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 (edited) If you are buying second hand, I'd say Atlas was the safest bet (but not anything that mentions Roco). Newer Athearn are just as good, but for the uninitiated it's hard to gauge the age (Athearn Genesis are good but pricey).Kato are good runners but limited in what they have suitable for a switching layout. Walthers/Lifelike/P2K have nice bodies but variable mechanisms (when they are good they are good, but there seem to be many instances of split gears). Bachmann are a bit of a mixed bag, as mentioned the S2/4 are good, as are most of their Spectrum range, but avoid the others.Bowser/Stewart are varied, I get the impression that their newer stuff is rated but they have been around a long time in various incarnations so it's probably best to ask if you fancy something by them.Intermountain seem to spilt opinion, although I like them. Probably not an option if you are looking for cheap. Rapido are very good, but not at all cheap.I'd avoid Tyco, AHM, Modelpower, Rivarossi (except steam and their new GE U25C) Edited October 31, 2016 by Talltim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wollastonblue Posted October 31, 2016 Author Share Posted October 31, 2016 Thanks guys for all your advice it really appreciated. The classes I've been looking at are: Alco RS2 or RS3 EMD SW1000 EMD GP9 EM GP15 Are these all suitable for a Switching layout? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Would anyone who was at the NMRA Convention at the weekend (i only got as far as the Car Park on Friday) care to comment on prices...? From memory it's usually a buyers market due to various reasons, and there are certainly bargains to be had that make eBay, etc look overpriced. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 (edited) Thanks guys for all your advice it really appreciated. The classes I've been looking at are: Alco RS2 or RS3 EMD SW1000 EMD GP9 EM GP15 Are these all suitable for a Switching layout? Short answer is yes. Longer answer is that the SW is the only pure switcher, but the others are road switchers so would find work as both switchers and road power. I'm far from a rivet counter though- I'd be happy to use anything with 4 axles and a hood body (I.e not an F Unit, FA etc) as a switcher. Edited October 31, 2016 by Zomboid Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 (edited) Thanks guys for all your advice it really appreciated. The classes I've been looking at are: Alco RS2 or RS3 EMD SW1000 EMD GP9 EM GP15 Short answer is yes. Longer answer is that the SW is the only pure switcher, but the others are road switchers so would find work as both switchers and road power. And importantly for a small layout, all are quite short Edited October 31, 2016 by Talltim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Would anyone who was at the NMRA Convention at the weekend (i only got as far as the Car Park on Friday) care to comment on prices...? From memory it's usually a buyers market due to various reasons, and there are certainly bargains to be had that make eBay, etc look overpriced. What were you doing in the car park? Showing off the underbody lights of your lowered Nissan Leaf? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wollastonblue Posted October 31, 2016 Author Share Posted October 31, 2016 Although designed as a switcher, many roads used SWs (and Alco S4s) as branchline power, even going so far as to fit MU cables. But you need to research your chosen prototype a bit to find out more about that. (No problem with, for example, choosing SF because you like the war bonnet paint scheme(s) (not "livery"!) but you need to consider if you might prefer one day to have solely mainline running, in which case an RS or GP makes more sense.) Problem is I don't really have a prototype in mind. Like my Swiss layout, I'm using Kato stock on N gauge track. I know it isn't to scale, but I can live with the difference of 2.5mm in gauge. I just want to portray little slice of USA in the form or a brewery switching layout. I have some ideas on stock to use and freight coming in and freight going out: i) Timber Flat cars for the Cooperage ii) 2 Bay Grain Hoppers for the Barley iii) 40ft Box Cars to take away the finished product I do prefer the look of the GP locos to be honest though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 I do prefer the look of the GP locos to be honest though. Best start looking for a Fox River GP60M then.... What were you doing in the car park? Showing off the underbody lights of your lowered Nissan Leaf? Not me, but sounds like a terrible mash-up of cars I've owned or driven. (And that image will be the basis for the next nightmare then...). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wollastonblue Posted October 31, 2016 Author Share Posted October 31, 2016 Best start looking for a Fox River GP60M then.... Not me, but sounds like a terrible mash-up of cars I've owned or driven. (And that image will be the basis for the next nightmare then...). OOOOOOOOOO that looks good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethashenden Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Problem is I don't really have a prototype in mind. Like my Swiss layout, I'm using Kato stock on N gauge track. I know it isn't to scale, but I can live with the difference of 2.5mm in gauge. I just want to portray little slice of USA in the form or a brewery switching layout. I have some ideas on stock to use and freight coming in and freight going out: i) Timber Flat cars for the Cooperage ii) 2 Bay Grain Hoppers for the Barley iii) 40ft Box Cars to take away the finished product I do prefer the look of the GP locos to be honest though. I know you don't have a specific prototype in mind, but do you at least have an era? I've seen locomotive suggestions ranging from the early '50s to present. You've mentioned 40' boxcars, so that's putting things ~pre 1970 as a rough estimate. 50' Boxcars became popular in the late '50s/early '60s but boxcars have declined in popularity since the '80s. All the cars you mention here sound like '50s/'60s to me, or earlier. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 I know you don't have a specific prototype in mind, but do you at least have an era? I've seen locomotive suggestions ranging from the early '50s to present. You've mentioned 40' boxcars, so that's putting things ~pre 1970 as a rough estimate. 50' Boxcars became popular in the late '50s/early '60s but boxcars have declined in popularity since the '80s. All the cars you mention here sound like '50s/'60s to me, or earlier.So a GP60 won't fit.Not that it stopped me running a GP60 in a post 1996 paint scheme with 40 footers... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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