Trip to England Part 9: This time we're not kidding - Debriefing.

[Zomboid]

I'm planning on having a go on the zip lines, though maybe the ffestiniog one rather than Bethesda. It does look expensive, but I think that's the nature of such things. The caves look great, too.

I'll let you know when I've been, but since the zip lines are closed until April I doubt it'll be in time for your planning.

Until then, I bet it's on YouTube.

[Arthur]

I'd agree with Mike (Stationmaster) about Tintern Abbey, 2 hours would be fine. Tintern and the Wye valley are nice enough in their own right and there are one or two eateries. It's 20/25 minutes off the M4 and, as you have to pass through Chepstow, you might consider a visit to the castle there.

 

If you do go, whilst enjoying the sylvan setting, ponder that two hundred years or so ago it was a hive of industry, the night sky lit by several metal smelting furnaces and the air filled with the clamour of metal bashing.

 

As for the zip wires, I plan to do one of them myself next year and was recently talking to a mate who spends quite a bit of time in North Wales. He has done both the Bethesda and Ffestiniog wires. Both are good, the Bethesda a single very fast run (worlds longest and fastest I believe), the Ffestiniog a number of shorter runs. There is, apparently, quite a bit of waiting around at the Ffestiniog wire and you need to allow a couple of hours, half an hour is enough for the Bethesda wire.

 

Know that roads in North Wales are very rural and can be slow.

 

.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Arthur

[OnTheBranchline]

Hello everyone,

 

Thank you for all of your comments, we really do appreciate them. We cut out the Southwest (Devon/Cornwall) out of our trip and we will visit it when we go to France in the future.

 

We have rescheduled our itinerary and is as follows:

 

Day 1-3: Flight in and go around London

Day 4: Hampton Court Palace and Windsor Castle

Day 5: Didcot (steam day)/Swindon

Day 6: Castle Combe/Bath - Rent car from Bath

Day 7: Tintern Abbey/Caerphilly Castle/Big Pit Museum or Chepstow Castle - (not sure if girlfriend is actually interested in Big Pit Museum or she is just going along with it)

Day 8: Big Pit Museum (?)/Hay-on-Wye book town/end at Gladstone's Library

Day 9: Zip World Bethesda/Llangollen Canal Ride

Day 10: Snowdon Mountain Railway/Fairy Glen (Betws-y-Coed)

Day 11: Chester (Cathedral/The Rows/Shopping/Roman Ruins)

Day 12: York (NRM, The Shambles)

Day 13: York (York Minister, The Dungeon, other stuff), Drop car off & train to Portsmouth

Day 14: Portsmouth: HMS Victory & visit with relatives

Day 15: Train to London and flight out

 

I like this revised schedule because there isn't as much packaged into each day. There are some days where we take our time to visit (Hay-on-Wye, Chester, York, Portsmouth, etc). I think everything is pretty realistic but let me know otherwise. There are only a few days where I am not sure if we would cram too much into one day:

 

Day 5: Didcot (Steam day) & Swindon Museum

Day 7: Tintern Abbey, Caerphilly Museum, Big Pit Museum (or Chepstow Castle)

Day 9: Zip World Bethesda/Llangollen Canal Ride (depending on when the Zip World starts & finishes and how long it takes to Llangollen by car).

 

Please let me know what you think.

[Gwiwer]

York - Portsmouth by train is a fair haul.  Allow at least four hours and ideally five as you either have to cross London or use a cross-country route via Reading.

 

Llangollen means you can sneak in another steam railway of course.  Don't miss the opportunity to walk or boat across the Pontcysyllte aqueduct - and don't try to pronounce it without a local interpreter on hand

 

The whole looks more realistic and while that means the south-west is put back to another time it will still be there and you can do it more justice in terms of days (rather than hours) spent when you do get there.

[RJD]

Has anyone explained roundabout courtesy when driving?

 

RJD

[lofty1966]

Has anyone explained roundabout courtesy when driving?

 

RJD

When did that start ?

You making things up?

[Zomboid]

Isn't the Big Pit museum at the pontypool & blaenaveon railway?

Very sly, putting that in there

There's still a lot of driving in there, but you'll probably get most of those things in. Make sure you know your priorities, as you may have to ditch some stops if the traffic is bad.

[Tim Hall]

Big Pit is indeed served by a very short branch of the P and BR, though they don't operate daily, even in holiday periods. Big Pit is also accessible by road. By roundabout courtesy, do you mean actually looking at the paint on the road, noticing that there is some, and giving way if necessary?

[caradoc]

Day 5 (Didcot/Swindon) should actually be quite relaxing; Didcot Railway Centre is immediately adjacent to the station, Didcot-Swindon by train is about 15 minutes on an HST, and the Steam Museum is around 15 minutes walk from Swindon station.

[The Stationmaster]

Definitely a great improvement on the original.

 

Presumably you would do Didcot GWS then Steam at Swindon then overnight at Bath.  MIght mean an evening arrival in Bath (plenty of places to eat) but perfectly doable and gives more time in Bath instead of backtracking to London or staying in Swindon (does anybody stay in Swindon??).

 

The rest then works fairly well and the only question I would ask is whether to drop the car in Chester or York - not an impossible rail journey between the two (takes about 3 hrs max) and a car would be more of a nuisance in York than a help as you'd need to find a hotel with parking (there aren't many in/near the centre and that is where you need to be staying).  Depends really on how long you stay at Chester and what you have in mind for the drive over from there to York (which might not be the best in the world, lots of busy roads).  In York you absolutely must go to the Castle Museum, near Clifford's Tower.  I would suggest a whole day, or two in York and them train to Portsmouth on the morning of Day 14 as that will still give you a n afternoon in Pompey.

 

York - Portsmouth by train is whatever you make - go via London and do the ECML, cross London (the worst bit) then down the Portsmouth Direct, about 4h40minutes.  Or do it the Cross Country way (reserved seats essential) - takes about 1 hr longer but avoids London and you only need to change trains at Basingstoke, quite an interesting route and you get to pass the GWS at Didcot again!

 

With a number of train trips in mind, especially long distance, it might be worth looking into the availability of Britrail passes because if you can still get them they offer substantial savings.

 

On question - will you have luggage like US tourists (suitcases the size of a small house) or something much more manageable - it will make a big difference.

[Zomboid]

I wouldn't do the cross country to Portsmouth, because the connection at Basingstoke or Winchester is 50 minutes. There's no reason to visit Basingstoke, but Winchester could detain you for a couple of hours if you so wished, but if you just want to get to Portsmouth then go via London.

Or change from the XC at Southampton where there's a wider selection of trains to Portsmouth.

And that's without mentioning the fact that on cross country you will be travelling on the worst train this side of a pacer. For hour on endless hour.

[OnTheBranchline]

Definitely a great improvement on the original.

 

Presumably you would do Didcot GWS then Steam at Swindon then overnight at Bath. MIght mean an evening arrival in Bath (plenty of places to eat) but perfectly doable and gives more time in Bath instead of backtracking to London or staying in Swindon (does anybody stay in Swindon??).

 

The rest then works fairly well and the only question I would ask is whether to drop the car in Chester or York - not an impossible rail journey between the two (takes about 3 hrs max) and a car would be more of a nuisance in York than a help as you'd need to find a hotel with parking (there aren't many in/near the centre and that is where you need to be staying). Depends really on how long you stay at Chester and what you have in mind for the drive over from there to York (which might not be the best in the world, lots of busy roads). In York you absolutely must go to the Castle Museum, near Clifford's Tower. I would suggest a whole day, or two in York and them train to Portsmouth on the morning of Day 14 as that will still give you a n afternoon in Pompey.

 

York - Portsmouth by train is whatever you make - go via London and do the ECML, cross London (the worst bit) then down the Portsmouth Direct, about 4h40minutes. Or do it the Cross Country way (reserved seats essential) - takes about 1 hr longer but avoids London and you only need to change trains at Basingstoke, quite an interesting route and you get to pass the GWS at Didcot again!

 

With a number of train trips in mind, especially long distance, it might be worth looking into the availability of Britrail passes because if you can still get them they offer substantial savings.

 

On question - will you have luggage like US tourists (suitcases the size of a small house) or something much more manageable - it will make a big difference.

Probably small house with rucksacks on our backs for the day trips.

[The Stationmaster]

Probably small house with rucksacks on our backs for the day trips.

 

Hmm - I think you need to think a bit more about that.  I realise the ladies need to cater for all seasons so to speak but basically as 'tourists' you won't need much beyond basics and what you have can be washed - we usually mange a week with a bag that will will fit the luggage rack on some trains and will definitely fit an overhead locker on a 757.  Don't forget that at some places there won't be any left-luggage facility other than in the places you stay so if you're doing things between places where you stay overnight you might be lumbered with all of your luggage for the whole day - great if you have a car (and it will actually fit in the boot (trunk) but there are lots of UK cars where those big US style bags will not fit in the boot - like the one we hired in Cornwall this year.

[bike2steam]

 There's no reason to visit Basingstoke, -

Ahem - https://hampshireculturaltrust.org.uk/milestones-museum

[Zomboid]

Yeah, and there's a replica of Winchester Chesil station building in there too.

But I wouldn't recommend it as a highlight to anyone coming across the ocean to see the UK.

[OnTheBranchline]

Maybe we will change the day in Chester for another day in london?

[brianusa]

Too bad, you're missing the best parts of the country!

 

Brian

[OnTheBranchline]

Too bad, you're missing the best parts of the country!

 

Brian

Chester or something else?

[Torper]

Although I've been there several times I've never seen the attraction of Chester.  It's nice enough, but not outstanding.

 

DT

[Gwiwer]

I would favour York over London if dropping time in Chester.  London needs as long as a lifetime.  The hardest part is to decide what to not see on a first trip.  

 

Despite other opinions there's really not much need for an international visitor to trouble the streets of Blazingsmoke Basingstoke

 

Minimise your luggage for your own comfort and convenience.  It doesn't take long to rinse out and dry stuff "on the fly" and a small amount of time invested in laundry will repay a lot of frustration in terms of dragging large bags around.  Mike is correct in his comments about big bags and cars.  British cars are smaller than most American folk would be accustomed to.  While you can hire bigger ones you pay much more because of the additional emissions (factored into the hire rate) and fuel required.  And bigger cars in the UK can be a real pain to park (anywhere) and to drive (in some places).

 

Pack light, be prepared to wash your own socks and you are more likely to enjoy the time you have.

[The Stationmaster]

Maybe we will change the day in Chester for another day in london?

 

If you're still including Snowdon/vicinity thereof and going on to York you will have a long drive between the two and I would be inclined to break it somewhere enroute.  Although it is more off-route than enroute you might consider soemwhere in teh vicinty of Haworth so you get the Keighley & Worth Valley and herself gets a bit of Bronte territory.

 

Otherwise I would suggest the same as Rick (Gwiwer) and add a day in York rather than one in London.

[Zomboid]

I'd echo the "pack light" sentiment above. You can always buy stuff here if you find you actually do need it, and a huge bag might be awkward in a european size car (unless you order a big one, but that comes with disadvantages), never mind on the train, where the luggage storage is usually inadequate. Though you can't rely on the weather being anything other than changeable, particularly in Wales.

 

Chester is alright, you won't need much more than half a day there, but that would leave you with the other half of the day for travelling to York. As a stop-off between Snowdonia and York it's not a bad choice.

[Ian Hargrave]

Although I've been there several times I've never seen the attraction of Chester.  It's nice enough, but not outstanding.

 

DT

Paid a visit to Chester in July for the first time in many years. I'm afraid I too was underwhelmed by the city. It seems to have become a twee shopping experience which has an air of sameness about it..Chose to travel by rail and walk both ways to/from station & city which was a depressing journey.Should have used shuttle bus. Do not forget Liverpool and Manchester both resurgent cities with lots to see and do and the historic rail journey between the two.

 

York selects itself .A joyous place but always crowded.Went last week to give son & grandson a Christmas day out.Positively heaving but happy. Christmas Market etc.NRM,Castle Museum,Minster (and Thompson's litlle mouse woodcarvings).Castle Howard not far.

[Ian Hargrave]

Hello everyone,

 

Thank you for all of your comments, we really do appreciate them. We cut out the Southwest (Devon/Cornwall) out of our trip and we will visit it when we go to France in the future.

 

We have rescheduled our itinerary and is as follows:

 

Day 1-3: Flight in and go around London

Day 4: Hampton Court Palace and Windsor Castle

Day 5: Didcot (steam day)/Swindon

Day 6: Castle Combe/Bath - Rent car from Bath

Day 7: Tintern Abbey/Caerphilly Castle/Big Pit Museum or Chepstow Castle - (not sure if girlfriend is actually interested in Big Pit Museum or she is just going along with it)

Day 8: Big Pit Museum (?)/Hay-on-Wye book town/end at Gladstone's Library

Day 9: Zip World Bethesda/Llangollen Canal Ride

Day 10: Snowdon Mountain Railway/Fairy Glen (Betws-y-Coed)

Day 11: Chester (Cathedral/The Rows/Shopping/Roman Ruins)

Day 12: York (NRM, The Shambles)

Day 13: York (York Minister, The Dungeon, other stuff), Drop car off & train to Portsmouth

Day 14: Portsmouth: HMS Victory & visit with relatives

Day 15: Train to London and flight out

 

I like this revised schedule because there isn't as much packaged into each day. There are some days where we take our time to visit (Hay-on-Wye, Chester, York, Portsmouth, etc). I think everything is pretty realistic but let me know otherwise. There are only a few days where I am not sure if we would cram too much into one day:

 

Day 5: Didcot (Steam day) & Swindon Museum

Day 7: Tintern Abbey, Caerphilly Museum, Big Pit Museum (or Chepstow Castle)

Day 9: Zip World Bethesda/Llangollen Canal Ride (depending on when the Zip World starts & finishes and how long it takes to Llangollen by car).

 

Please let me know what you think.

Day 8 Hay on Wye. Include a visit to Richard Booth's Bookshop..He's the guy who started it all .Have lunch there.Drive towards Brecon for dinner at The Felinfach Griffin and stay overnight

Day 9 might be a bit over ambitious depending on where you stay on the previous evening. It is a long way from the Hay area to Bethesda and the roads are not always easy. Driving from Bethesda to Langollen means you are driving west to east the entire part of North Wales which could be a mite too much.if you wish to include both activities.Suggest one or the other.Also think carefully about Chester and read my post above.Have a look by all means but given your constraints on time. etc.

Edited December 3, 2016 by Ian Hargrave

[Ian Hargrave]

If you're still including Snowdon/vicinity thereof and going on to York you will have a long drive between the two and I would be inclined to break it somewhere enroute.  Although it is more off-route than enroute you might consider soemwhere in teh vicinty of Haworth so you get the Keighley & Worth Valley and herself gets a bit of Bronte territory.

 

Otherwise I would suggest the same as Rick (Gwiwer) and add a day in York rather than one in London.

Really like this idea of a stopover in Haworth and the moors.Plenty of interest. Role -play Cathy and Heathcliffe.Adds another refreshingly different dimension to a UK tour. Saltaire just down the road too.

Lots of accomodation available in the area.