Deano747 Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 Many thanks for the info Paul. It looks good. Regards, Deano. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted February 15, 2017 Author Share Posted February 15, 2017 1459 ready for painting and DCC. The past few days I have made a concerted effort to complete the Modern Outline Kits 14XX and, as the photos show, it is almost ready. There are still a few lost wax castings to go, but I am not sure where they go or if they are duplicates. However, the model "will now do" as far as I am concerned. The model closely follows what information I have on Late 1950s 1459, which spent time at Oswestry 89A. The autotrain equipment closely follows examples photographed at Didcot, though some bits may not be present. The electrical conduits were "interesting". As I will note on Tony Wright's forum, I changed over to 7mm from 4mm because I couldn't handle the lamp brackets. Now I find myself handling even smaller parts. The body remains in nickel silver and brass (there are NO white metal castings in the kit) while the chassis has been completed all except for installing DCC and sound. The loco still needs to be run in but it already moves very sweetly on my DC test track. The body will be painted in unlined black with early BR totem. It will be paired with a Dapol/Lionheart crimson autocoach when that is released later this year. The rain has stopped so maybe on Friday I can spray on the etch primer. I will write a separate critique of this (excellent) kit later. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted February 16, 2017 Author Share Posted February 16, 2017 (edited) It seems to me that Cif cleaners are not so readily available as they used to be. Not the good ones, anyway. While in a B&Q a month ago I picked up a brand I had not heard of before, called Zep Fast 505 Industrial Cleaner and Degreaser. I just used this on the shells of my 14XX and Compound because it looks promising to get etch primer on them tomorrow. There are stars in the sky and the temperature this afternoon was above 15ºC, so as long as the air continues to dry I think I may be spraying tomorrow. After going over both shells with a glass fibre brush and doing a bit of sanding and scraping, I sprayed the brass/nickel silver with the Zep, left it on for the specified two minutes, then washed it off. It works, and I would say it works better than the industrial Cif I had been using. I have also prepared the Severn Mill plates for the 14XX. Thankfully there is a good thread started by Steve Fay on how the etches are made and why there is material that needs to be removed. The 14XX is going to be painted in unlined black and according to a photo of class member 1466 at Didcot the cabside number plates should be brass numbers and frame with a red painted background. The backgrounds for the builders plate and shed plate will be black, the smokebox plate will be white numbers on black. But first they will get a few wafts of primer tomorrow as well. Hopefully! Edited February 16, 2017 by Focalplane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Number plates with red backing on the Western Region......Aggghh. LNWR practice! I don't think it was widespread on plain black engines, as I have only come across a Dean Goods with red background plates. Happy to be proved wrong..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daifly Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Number plates with red backing on the Western Region......Aggghh. LNWR practice! I don't think it was widespread on plain black engines, as I have only come across a Dean Goods with red background plates. Happy to be proved wrong..... You know I love a challenge like that! Cheers Dave 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted February 16, 2017 Author Share Posted February 16, 2017 I thought that if a Didcot engine had a red plate it probably would be OK. At leadt they always like to think they get it right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted February 17, 2017 Author Share Posted February 17, 2017 17ºC, low humidity, the sun is shining. Out with the Halfords Etch Primer! Photos later. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted February 17, 2017 Author Share Posted February 17, 2017 (edited) And here they are, one each: The Compound: The 14XX: You can see why the railway companies liked to paint their new class photos in "photographic grey" as they left the Works. Comparing the two, you can see that the LMS compound carries the relative simplicity of the MR Johnson era, while the 14XX, even though tracing an ancestry going back to the nineteenth century, has a more modern "make it easier to maintain" look, with a lot more visible "plumbing". Edited February 17, 2017 by Focalplane 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted February 18, 2017 Author Share Posted February 18, 2017 Here is my promised review of the Modern Outline Kits GWR 14XX 0-4-2T kit The kit Modern Outline Kits, run by David Sharp, have a small range of high quality 7mm scale loco kits covering an eclectic range of models. Their website is here. The Collett 14XX 0-4-2T is a popular favourite among GWR branch line modellers so the market for this kit is probably quite large. The 14XX kit is considered to be an easy build. The kit comes in a box not unlike the ones used for pizza deliveries. The box cannot be used to store the built loco, but I do not think is would be advisable anyway and good carrying cases offer a lot more protection. The box is largely that shape because of the large square etched sheets in both nickel silver and brass. In addition there is an illustrated book of instructions and several bags of lost wax brass castings. There are no white metal castings in this kit, a definite plus in my opinion. Not included are the motor and gearbox, wheels and pickups. Dave recommended the ABC Mini 7S with Maxxon motor. Slaters provided the wheels and plunger pickups. I decided on the DCC sound option from Southwest Digital, using a Loksound decoder and bass reflex speaker. Brass plates and other items were ordered from Severn Mills, while the optional autotrain add on kit was bought from Peter Roles. In this specification the kit is not inexpensive so the inducement was to build a quality model to justify the expense. I believe I have achieved that to the best of my ability. The prototype The choice of a prototype was based on several criteria: I wanted to emulate one of the Collett tanks based at Oswestry 89A during the late 1950s. These were mostly used on the autotrain to Gobowen, a shuttle service that was typical GWR, even in the 1950s. Photos of 14XXs are fairly common but many are of those in the GWR’s southwest division. Four have been preserved and these provide the best evidence for a generic, if not specific, prototype. The choice came down to three or four locos and I chose 1459 after much deliberation. This loco did not have top feeds fitted and appears to have been painted in unlined black which is what I seem to remember. It was usually paired with two autotrain coaches, the diagrams of which I have yet to discover. I assembled a large portfolio of photos but as always most views are from the front quarter. However there are several of the cab’s interior. Also, I found a thread on RMWeb concerning the development of the DJModels/Hattons 14XX in 4mm scale. Some of the 3D images proved to be useful. Building the chassis The chassis is fully compensated with beams and hornblocks for the two driving axles and a free floating design for the trailing axle that allows a limited rocking compensation from side to side. The motor/gearbox is mounted to the rear driving axle and is free to float with the compensation. This system works well and I have only used pickups on each side of the drivers (i.e. 4 in total) with no problems so far. On my rolling road the loco rocks quite a bit but it does not do this on level track. In retrospect I might have added two more pickups to one of the axles as insurance. The hornblocks are made up from nickel silver etch and were not too difficult to fabricate and install. In fact the entire compensation package for the chassis convinced me that in future I would look into having some form of compensation in all locos. The chassis also employs a tab and slot technique such that the entire frame can be assembled, then checked before being soldered up. The tabs are then filed back and any gaps can be filled in with solder. The end result is a very strong and square framework. The same technique is also employed in the construction of the body with numerous tabs holding the main structural components together. Again no soldering need be done until everything is checked. Building the body The footplate for the body shell includes a temporary strengthener than ensures that the body does remain square while being assembled. This extra piece is cut away once the boiler and smokebox are added. MOK use wraps for the riveted tank sides and smokebox. Given the number of rivets this is probably a good idea but getting the wraps exactly on top of the underlying framework was not that easy. Another part I found difficult was the roof. I think I should have rolled the side supports first rather than after they had been installed. The roof itself fits over these side supports. Once all the main components have been added the instructions do rather make a few large jumps, overlooking many of the lost wax castings, assuming that the builder knows where they all go. This criticism is partly offset by the excellent photos and keys to all the brass parts. But even so I am now left with quite a few castings that never found a home! The cab interior is well detailed and the backhead was completed and painted and then set aside. It is inserted through the cab floor after the body has been painted. The underside of the floor can be tack soldered in place. Having all brass fittings plus the included brass and copper wire made the cab interior a joy to put together. Probably the most confusing part of the construction was the installation of the autotrain components. This is not really a criticism of either MOK or Peter Roles (who supplied the additional brass etches) but of my own uncertainty as to which part does what. Lots of photos helped but in the end I think I have built a reasonable representation of the autotrain mechanism. I have tested the DCC sound decoder, using Southwest Digital’s Loksound chip with their Class 1 GWR sound files. This sound set is more sophisticated than many on the market and does take a bit of getting used to. There are over 20 functions but the most used are within the first ten. Conclusions Is the 14XX an easy build (as it says on the box)? I suppose it is. But it is still a very sophisticated kit with numerous parts, detailed etches and nice castings. The compensation is well thought out and works, the motor gearbox configuration being mated to the design. I really liked the rear axle design. The fiddly small parts seemed to be never ending and it did not always help that some of them had no mention in the instructions (or at least a mention of where they actually went on the model). On the other hand the bulk of the instructions are well written and drawn using CAD software, i.e. they are not hand drawn sketches. Would I build another one? Yes, definitely! One of the ironies of this class of Gauge O loco (and, incidentally its OO cousins as well) is the relative lack of autocoaches to run with it. I have on order a Dapol/Lionheart coach which is almost certainly not the diagram used at Oswestry. But I already have too many coach kits to build so that will be a compromise I can live with. Postscript: Photos of the build can be found on this thread as well as in older posts on my Legge Lane Blog. The latter can be seen using this link. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted February 18, 2017 Author Share Posted February 18, 2017 (edited) 24 hours after the etch primer was applied I started to think about the top coat(s). I had already sprayed the Compound's tender with Plastikote gloss black. I must have bought this somewhere in England (or Wales) and I certainly liked the finish. But the can I have feels rather empty, so I probably need some more. UK suppliers can no longer export aerosol paints to France, apparently, so I started a search for the same product on amazon.fr. My existing can cost £5.50, the same paint on French amazon costs 7 times that price! Model shops are as rare as hen's teeth in southern France. There is a good shop at Bessan, about 60 kms away, but they mainly do mail order and are closed on Saturdays with the weekday opening times definitely revolving around, and between, meal times. What modelling that is done is all about radio control - aircraft, boats, helicopters - but not trains. Edited February 18, 2017 by Focalplane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted February 19, 2017 Author Share Posted February 19, 2017 The 14XX and Compound's bodies have received their black gloss, the Plastikote can just lasting out, a big relief. So next comes the detail painting, not that there is a lot to do. Below is a photo of the Severn Mills brass cabside plates after I painted them. There appear to be quite a few techniques out there, some quite beyond my capabilities, so I did what I remember doing to a 4mm scale set of King plates about 50 odd years ago. First I trimmed the edge of each plate using files and then fine emery pads. Then I put a strip of tape upside down on a piece of card, pinning it down with more tape. On this I glued down the plates so they would not disappear with a sudden waft of aerosol. Yesterday I gave the plates a light coating of etch primer and left them overnight. Earlier today I then sprayed the number plates with Halfords red paint spray and let the paint dry for about three hours. Next I used a fine grade (600) emory board to remove the paint from the brass frame and numbers. Once all the paint, including the etch primer, had been removed I went over the surface of the brass with very very fine emery pads (I bought them from Sylmasta at the Warley Show a couple of years ago. Here's the link. This brought up the polished finish I was hoping for. The photo was taken soon after and I will clean up the red surface a bit more when it has hardened. On the strength of this I have ordered four train headboards from Severn Mills. They will also have red backgrounds. The first to be done will, naturally, be the Midlander as the Jubilee is ready to receive it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 Some plates have the surround outside of the raised plate as on the real thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted February 19, 2017 Author Share Posted February 19, 2017 (edited) Some plates have the surround outside of the raised plate as on the real thing. I was advised by someone (on Steve Fay's thread perhaps?) that the outside edge is there to insure the etching process does its job without marring the actual plate, so I carefully filed it down before painting. I am happy with these but will look into this before doing any more. Thanks, Larry. Edit to add: I looked at the high resolution photo of the two 14XXs at Didcot on Flickr and 1466's plates look exactly the same as mine. Well, there is a difference in scale. Edited February 19, 2017 by Focalplane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted February 19, 2017 Author Share Posted February 19, 2017 Waiting for paint to harden on the two locomotives, I re-opened the LMS Period III Kitchen Car this evening. I added the MagClic couplers and have the steam and vacuum pipes ready to install tomorrow. I am not sure if I will be able to paint anything this coming week, the wind is coming back, so more coach construction seems likely though I do want to get the two locos up and running as well. The thought of going back to the two JLTRT Mark 1s is not particularly pleasant as I really prefer brass/solder over poly-whatever and CA adhesive. So I may just put the Mark 1s aside and replace them with a Porthole Corridor Third and a Porthole Corridor Brake Third. Then I can always finish the Mark 1s and have an 8 coach rake - if I feel like it! The replacements would have been built in 1950 so they are certainly feasible for the era being modelled. They were also turned out in crimson & cream. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 I was advised by someone (on Steve Fay's thread perhaps?) that the outside edge is there to insure the etching process does its job without marring the actual plate, so I carefully filed it down before painting. I am happy with these but will look into this before doing any more. Thanks, Larry. Edit to add: I looked at the high resolution photo of the two 14XXs at Didcot on Flickr and 1466's plates look exactly the same as mine. Well, there is a difference in scale. The image below shows the cambered outer surround on all GWR numberplates. When the loco is green, the outer rim is also green. It is a characteristic of GWR plates. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted February 20, 2017 Author Share Posted February 20, 2017 Thanks a lot for this, Larry. I learn all the time! But looking at a couple of preserved locos with red plates (7820, 1466) I can't actually see a cambered outer surround, so 1459 will stay as is. Next time I'll follow the guidelines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano747 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Hi Paul/Larry Something like the plate in this picture? I hadn't noticed till you pointed it out Larry! Regards, Deano. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted February 20, 2017 Author Share Posted February 20, 2017 Ah, now I understand! Thanks for the photo, Deano. Since my 14XX is in plain black livery I think everything will be OK. Looking at the photo, how typical that a heritage loco is shining while the coach it's pulling is anything but! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano747 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Ah, now I understand! Thanks for the photo, Deano. Since my 14XX is in plain black livery I think everything will be OK. Looking at the photo, how typical that a heritage loco is shining while the coach it's pulling is anything but! I'm sure it will look fine Paul. Nice looking plates too! (The coach was 'semi-gloss' It could have done with a repaint!) Regards, Deano. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymw Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 image post #142, what happens to rivets behind plate? Were they countersunk, or was plate bored/slotted to go over top of roundheaded rivets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted February 20, 2017 Author Share Posted February 20, 2017 image post #142, what happens to rivets behind plate? Were they countersunk, or was plate bored/slotted to go over top of roundheaded rivets? A good question. Larry's drawing shows four countersunk holes, top/bottom/left/right. There is a suggestion of something like a countersunk (flush) fixing to the left of the first 5. In this day and age where the value of a number plate is high I feel sure the fixings may be different from the original design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted February 20, 2017 Author Share Posted February 20, 2017 Re post #139 I just sent off an order to Sidelines for two coaches to replace the Mark 1s. Porthole Corridor Third, Porthole Corridor Brake Third. Both were built in 1950 so would be relatively new for my early 1956 era. The Mark 1 kits will go to the back of the cupboard for the time being. I also received the correct driving wheels for the David Andrews Castle today. I think that the Castle may be my next locomotive build, but then it could be the Patriot. Choices, choices. . . . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano747 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 image post #142, what happens to rivets behind plate? Were they countersunk, or was plate bored/slotted to go over top of roundheaded rivets? I have no idea either, but I'm pretty sure someone on here will answer?! Regards, Deano. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall5 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 The full size plates were 'relieved' on the back. The number plate only touched the bunker side around the edge and around the bolt holes so I presume the rivets were round headed and just 'sat' in the hollowed out back of the plate. Sorry if I'm not making myself clear but I'm sure there are plenty of photos of 45xx, say at Barry or Swindon dump, where the numberplates have been removed and the rivets are visible. Ray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted February 20, 2017 Author Share Posted February 20, 2017 How about this for quick service? I emailed Malcolm Binns (a.k.a. Sidelines) at 11 a.m. UK time and asked if he had the two Porthole coaches, wheels and steam/vacuum pipes. Quick reply, yes! Sent funds by BACS. Just received a reply at 4:44 p.m. that they are in the post to France. If only I could build things so quickly! So now I will have a rake of six Sidelines ex-LMS coaches behind Polyphemus 45688. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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