nanniag Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 Hello everybody. I write my first post to kindly ask an help. The subject are the isothermic van that, coming from Italy, reached England into '50 and '60. My problem is: which kind of manual lever brake was installed? I went through the net looking For some info. I found the the manual lever brake is a world with a lot of variants. Looking at the below pictures you can see an example. I know also the some van was hired by LNER. Somebody can put me into the right direction to get a schematic or some detailed pics in order to reproduce it? Thanks in advance and best regards Antonio All the pics taken by internet Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nanniag Posted December 14, 2016 Author Share Posted December 14, 2016 Another pic... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 There may have been a schematic drawing in a Model Railway Constructor annual. There are a couple of photos showing the brake levers on page 15 of 'Non-Pool Freight Stock, 1948-68 Volume 2', by David Larkin. Incidentally, the term for such vehicles in UK parlance is an 'Insulated Van'. I remeber seeing long rakes of these vans, awaiting scrapping, between Roma and Napoli. That would be 20 years ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted December 14, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 14, 2016 These are the ones I remember seeing around and modelled originally by Airfix as a kit: http://Dapol.co.uk/image/cache/data/C42-800x800.jpg Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 These are the ones I remember seeing around and modelled originally by Airfix as a kit: http://Dapol.co.uk/image/cache/data/C42-800x800.jpg Keith That was the design that came out in the late 1950s, though the Airfix one is actually a Berne-Gauge wagon, modelled in HO. The last design to run in the UK was longer, and had the roof ends tapering down, a bit like a Hawkesworth coach. The last I saw in the UK was in the early 1990s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nanniag Posted December 14, 2016 Author Share Posted December 14, 2016 Many thanks for the reply and the informations. I will buy the mentioned book. But, since I guess the MRConstruction Annual cannot be purchased anymore, that kind of manual brake had a particular name? So I can look for the schematic drawing in another way... Thanks again Antonio Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 Many thanks for the reply and the informations. I will buy the mentioned book. But, since I guess the MRConstruction Annual cannot be purchased anymore, that kind of manual brake had a particular name? So I can look for the schematic drawing in another way... Thanks again Antonio I've only ever known them as 'lever brakes', though they may be of a sub-type known as 'lifting link'. There are probably similar levers available from one of the UK aftermarket suppliers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 A few more photo links http://www.nrm.org.uk/ourcollection/photo?group=Liverpool Street&objid=1995-7233_LIVST_FT_229 http://www.nrm.org.uk/ourcollection/photo?group=Liverpool Street&objid=1995-7233_LIVST_MF_90 http://www.nrm.org.uk/ourcollection/photo?group=Liverpool Street&objid=1995-7233_LIVST_MF_94 http://www.nrm.org.uk/ourcollection/photo?group=Liverpool Street&objid=1995-7233_LIVST_MF_93 http://www.railwaywondersoftheworld.com/chilled-freight.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 The brake layout would be a lot like the one in the drawing here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/57623-brake-gear-help-please/?p=713977 but the Bremswelle shaft would be between the wheels and rotated by the action of the lever, rather than the action of a screw. Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted December 14, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 14, 2016 A few more photo links http://www.nrm.org.uk/ourcollection/photo?group=Liverpool Street&objid=1995-7233_LIVST_FT_229 http://www.nrm.org.uk/ourcollection/photo?group=Liverpool Street&objid=1995-7233_LIVST_MF_90 http://www.nrm.org.uk/ourcollection/photo?group=Liverpool Street&objid=1995-7233_LIVST_MF_94 http://www.nrm.org.uk/ourcollection/photo?group=Liverpool Street&objid=1995-7233_LIVST_MF_93 http://www.railwaywondersoftheworld.com/chilled-freight.html The two parts of each link need hyperlinking together. Cheers Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nanniag Posted December 15, 2016 Author Share Posted December 15, 2016 Hello all. Many thanks to everybody for the replies and the links. The pictures of the NRM are great! Soon or later I have go there... I'm a donkey, because I've already downloaded a pic with the brake system of these kind of van... It cames from Rotaie.it website. As you can see, it is a mess. You can brake manually from three several points and there is at the same time the vacuum and the air brake. Just to close the story, I've made a sketch to simplify a little bit. Thanks again to everybody, merry Christmas and happy new year. Antonio Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nanniag Posted December 15, 2016 Author Share Posted December 15, 2016 Here the sketch. The arrows indicate the movement during braking... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 I'm pleased you found that diagram - it illustrates how complex the brakes on these vehicles were. As an aside, contemporary accounts by shunters and yard workers seem to consistently say that brakes on Continental vehicles were almost always badly worn and ineffective. When I built mine I simplified the brake gear enormously, as most of it is invisible. If you can find them (forgive me if you already know this), the authoritative books on the subject are by Giovanni Leone. They are hard to track down, though. I believe the diagram you reproduce above is also in there. The first of these vans appeared as early as 1926 and the type was in use until the 1970s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nanniag Posted December 15, 2016 Author Share Posted December 15, 2016 Hello Jonathan, all. Thanks for the picture, that give me the possibility to look in some details. The rods in which the external manual lever are spliced are not long as the width frame? From the above drawing seems that one is long as the frame width, the other is a little shorter. Am I right? The vacuum cylinder can rock on a pivot to follow the rotation of the brake rod. Have you some other pics of the van or there is a dedicated thread? It is interesting. Thanks Antonio Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 Hi Antonio, I used some components which I had to hand, which are shorter than then van width. As you can't see the end of the V hanger which is behind the lever on the opposite side on photographs, I wasn't too bothered about it =not being close enough to the other solebar. I built the vans some years ago for a layout which is now retired. I'm afraid the pictures have gone from the original build thread after I stopped using Imageshack. This is how they turned out: . The lettering is still available from Precision Labels. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaddeus Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 A few more photo links http://www.nrm.org.uk/ourcollection/photo?group=Liverpool Street&objid=1995-7233_LIVST_FT_229 http://www.nrm.org.uk/ourcollection/photo?group=Liverpool Street&objid=1995-7233_LIVST_MF_90 http://www.nrm.org.uk/ourcollection/photo?group=Liverpool Street&objid=1995-7233_LIVST_MF_94 http://www.nrm.org.uk/ourcollection/photo?group=Liverpool Street&objid=1995-7233_LIVST_MF_93 http://www.railwaywondersoftheworld.com/chilled-freight.html http://www.nrm.org.uk/ourcollection/photo?group=Liverpool Street&objid=1995-7233_LIVST_FT_229 http://www.nrm.org.uk/ourcollection/photo?group=Liverpool Street&objid=1995-7233_LIVST_MF_90 http://www.nrm.org.uk/ourcollection/photo?group=Liverpool Street&objid=1995-7233_LIVST_MF_94 http://www.nrm.org.uk/ourcollection/photo?group=Liverpool Street&objid=1995-7233_LIVST_MF_93 the old BBCode whitespace glitch Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nanniag Posted December 16, 2016 Author Share Posted December 16, 2016 Hello all. Jonathan, thank you for the picture: it seems a beautiful set of insulated vans. Thank you for the indication on the lettering: but I guess that they are in 00 gauge. Since I do H0, I will do by myself, it's not a problem. Anyway, all these info's will help me on the build of this van, I think in brass e some other details printed in 3D. Something like this prototype: BR Antonio Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nanniag Posted January 5, 2017 Author Share Posted January 5, 2017 Hello all and happy new year. So let's start with the design of the van. Here below a couple of examples of the sprung frame, made with photoetched and 3d parts. I have a question, maybe somebody can help me. Which destinations were reached by these vans? Have you an idea with the detailed good yard name (like London Bishopsgate)? The question arise because I have to prepare the decal, and I would add one with the final destination, that on the real van was written on the side with a white pencil. Thanks and best regards Antonio Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Bishopsgate would have been one, but most big cities would have had a 'green market', specialising in fresh produce, or part of a large goods depot dedicated to such traffic. Examples might include Sheffield Darnall, Liverpool Spekeland Road or Glasgow Salkeld Street. Less obvious would be jam and conserve manufacturers; examples come to mind include Tiptree in Essex, and others near Cambridge, Bristol and Dundee. There were also pet-food manufacturers, such what is now Pedigree at Melton Mowbray; I believe they were the last regular destination for 'Interfrigo' wagons in the UK. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nanniag Posted January 5, 2017 Author Share Posted January 5, 2017 Many thanks Fatcontroller. Instead of a simply "London" or "Great Britain", your places are more interesting and moreover are realistic. Thanks again I go back to draw... Antonio Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/8203-belgian-ferry-vans-on-eastern-region/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/64518788@N05/8473244058/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/138063305@N03/24796927169/ Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 Here's a selection of Italian vans at Hove (on the Sussex coast, near Brighton) in 1966 - at least three different types: https://www.flickr.com/photos/31890193@N08/14399216598/ I'm modelling one (based on 391736 on the left), see below for the near current state of play: Adam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 Thanks for posting that link, Adam; examination of some of the other photos in the gallery show other Interfrigos (including French-registered 'STEF' ones) at Hove as well. I wonder what the traffic was? I believe there was a factory producing/ assembling either scooters or bubble-cars at the near-by Brighton Works, but I can't imagine these vans as having been used for that- apart from anything else, the doors are too small. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 Thanks for posting that link, Adam; examination of some of the other photos in the gallery show other Interfrigos (including French-registered 'STEF' ones) at Hove as well. I wonder what the traffic was? I believe there was a factory producing/ assembling either scooters or bubble-cars at the near-by Brighton Works, but I can't imagine these vans as having been used for that- apart from anything else, the doors are too small. Not a problem, Brian; it's a wonderful collection of pictures. Consulting the OS map of the area it's not immediately obvious. This picture was taken from the platform and the building in the background is the Dubarry perfumery which I suppose might be a plausible recipient of long distance perishable goods in quantity? Adam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nanniag Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 Hello all. Finally i discovered how to modify the topic title... Thank you all for the precious informations. I'm drawing the photoetched parts of the roof, the frame and the body. I hope to show something quickly. Regards Antonio Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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