South Wales Valleys in the 50s

[The Johnster]

On 08/09/2022 at 01:49, The Johnster said:

Which segues neatly into the chassis.  Of course, this is a complete fiction, absolute rubbish, and should be an inside framed 0-4-0 with jackshaft drive from behind the cab steps.  There's not much I can do with it for now, beyond providing axle box covers for the open axleboxes. 

Actually there is something I can do about it, so I’ve done something about it, viz bought a    running Triang Nellie on the Bay, the chassis of which will form the basis of an inside framed 0-4-0, though I’ve yet to work out how to jackshaft it.   It’ll prolly have to be trimmed for length, but of course I won’t know until it arrives, due sometime next week.  
 

I think a Nellie mech is probably in keeping with the 60s starter set vibe…  It will free up the cab space for detail, and should give better haulage (only one axle of the Jouef mech is driven, and it wouldn’t pull the skin off the milk).  I can probably cobble up some brake detail from the scrap/oddznends box. 

[1466]

35 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

Actually there is something I can do about it, so I’ve done something about it, viz bought a    running Triang Nellie on the Bay, the chassis of which will form the basis of an inside framed 0-4-0, though I’ve yet to work out how to jackshaft it.   It’ll prolly have to be trimmed for length, but of course I won’t know until it arrives, due sometime next week.  
 

I think a Nellie mech is probably in keeping with the 60s starter set vibe…  It will free up the cab space for detail, and should give better haulage (only one axle of the Jouef mech is driven, and it wouldn’t pull the skin off the milk).  I can probably cobble up some brake detail from the scrap/oddznends box. 

A spiffing wheeze , Johnster !
May I tentatively suggest the following? 
Branchlines do a detailing set for the Airfix 04 and might that have a set of Jack  shaft drives ? Alternatively, Markits do extended axles for double frame GWR engines . Markits are very helpful and their extended axles with cranks are beautifully made with exquisite turnings . You will need the special 16 ba spanner they make as well but the quality is gratifying.

 As usual, I have no financial or commercial connection with either firm .

Good luck with the Black and Decker when drilling out the new axle position.  I’ll look forward to seeing progress.

Ken 

[tomparryharry]

The Bachmann 03-04 sports a dummy jackshaft arrangement.  Spares are good (at least, they used to be). 

[The Johnster]

Good to know, Ken; tx for the headsup!  It had occurred to me that the old Airfix Drewry, now marketed by Dapol under the Kitmaster banner, might provide the cranks and the necessary coupling rod section though this might be too fragile for regular use and handling, or that Bachmann spares might come up with the goodies in more robust form.  Would not Markits extended acles with cranks be seriously out of lateral alignment with Nellie’s coupling rods?  They have to be by the width of the coupling rods of course, but the cranks need to be in alignment with the driving wheels, which outside frame cranks won’t be.   
 

Oval buffer castings arrived from Wizzo this morning, so we are making some progress! 

[The Johnster]

14 minutes ago, tomparryharry said:

The Bachmann 03-04 sports a dummy jackshaft arrangement.  Spares are good (at least, they used to be). 

Should be available, as the model is in the current catalogue, but they’ve got a new spares ordering system which I’ve yet to get to grips with.  I won’t do anything until the chassis arrives, and will probably phone them, they are always helpful. 

[tomparryharry]

It depends if it's a 4-wheeler or 6-wheeler. If it's a 4-wheeler, then remove the spare wheelset. The old shunting puzzle used 03's & 4's, and Bachmann sold me 2-3 spare wheelsets to keep my locos in tip-top condition. Remember though, that the Baccy & Triang chassis is a different assembly process. The Nellie is 2 plates, surmounted by 2 Mazak blocks; The Baccy has a full mazak chassis, with a bottom chassis plate. 

 

Now, a Nellie wheelset and a Bachmann set of rods from an 04 might work....

 

[MrWolf]

Wouldn't that depend on the length of the Bachmann rods and the wheelbase of the Triang chassis? Also the crank throw on the jackshaft ideally needs to match the crank throw of the wheelsets.

[1466]

Hello Johnster , Tomparryharry and Mr. Wolf .

The issues around widths had occurred to me but I’d hoped that the ((extra) depth of Nellies wheels might compensate. It would seem  to me that going the Bachman 03 route would be good .

I’ve just measured a set of Markits EM gauge extended axles. In case it helps , Johnster, an 00 set would be 28 mm between the back faces of the cranks . To the best of my ability, I measured the throw  as 4.3 mm .

I’ll follow progress.

Ken

[1466]

[1466]

Although my vernier is showing 30. 22 mm , these are EM gauge so I have subtracted 2 mm for 00 gauge .

[The Johnster]

Sitrep time.  The NB has acquired oval

buffers in grey primer (perhaps it has delusions of being a Stanier pacific, or a deltic), as per BR prototype, wire handrails courtesy of the scrap box, grab rail lh side at  the top of the bonnet ladder, again as per prototype, and I decided it needed a handle for the coolant filler cap, bit of bent handrail wire.  But it has lost things as well; the horn has been carved off as has the (ficticious as far as I can tell) round ventilator on the cab roof. The plastic is thin enough to see daylight through at this point now!

 

I’m going to leave the cab handrails as they are, as they’re not as obvious as the others, and I’ll live with the moulded front bonnet steps because this isn’t a model of D2705, it’s a generic NB industrial.  I’ll get rid of the rear lamp brackets.   The horn goes about half way along the top of the bonnet, offset to the right.  Google photos show that there is something else up there, and the Judith Edge kit has a panel, so I’ll go for that.  There are also tiny grab rails on the cab front to assist with the inset steps in the side of the bonnet just ahead of that, and footsteps on the front and rear buffer fairings in an odd ‘upsidedown bracketed’ form.  Some of the BR locos had grab posts by the front shunter’s steps, which should be easy enough.  
 

Off for a cuppa, maybe more laters!

 

 

[The Johnster]

Basic plan of action in the following sequence:-

 

1) Continue for now with current body improvements as and when. 

2} Fit the Nellie mech into the Jouef chassis frame when it arrives.  This will involve some drastic surgery to the Jouef frame and mech, with everything except the running plate, footsteps, and buffer fairings being given the opportunity of an exciting new career in the landfill industry, with Nellie’s bodyshell joining them.  PM me if you have a use for it, free to good home.

 

3) Not until this stage can the viability of jackshaft drive be investigated.  For it to be feasible, the crank throw of the jack crank will have to be identical to Nellie’s wheels’  crank throws, and I’ll have to drill holes in the Nellie frames for a jack axle.  This is going to be a bit of a challenge, quite possibly beyond my abilities, and I reckon a plan b is a good idea.  
 

In the event that a jackshaft drive is unfeasible, there are as I see it two options,  one is to assume that this locomotive is driven by hydraulic pumps on the axles in the same way as 22s, Warships, Westerns, and Hymeks.  This would beg the question of what purpose the lump ahead of the cab serves, as there would be no need for a gearbox.  The other is to take advantage of the fact that the jack cranks on these locos are largely hidden behind the cab steps, which are plated from behind, and simply provide a dummy coupling rod disappearing behind the steps, possibly assisted by a bit more plating.  Neither of these outcomes is ideal, but the latter is to my mind the lesser of evils. 

Previous experience shows that any attempt to remove the Triang wheels or gears is likely to result in the destruction of the chassis.

 

Edited September 17, 2022 by The Johnster

[Ian Smeeton]

8 hours ago, The Johnster said:

 

In the event that a jackshaft drive is unfeasible, there are as I see it two options,  one is to assume that this locomotive is driven by hydraulic pumps on the axles in the same way as 22s, Warships, Westerns, and Hymeks.  This would beg the question of what purpose the lump ahead of the cab serves, as there would be no need for a gearbox.

 

 

Fuel Tank?

 

Regards

 

Ian

[The Johnster]

Well, Nellie turned up this avo, not due til next week according to Hermes but (for once) I’m not complaining!  Quick test run; a runner, smooth and quiet, but will need attention to the pickups.  Somebody’s had trouble with them before and soldered them, it, it’s only one strip of stiff wire on this common return mech, to the terminal on the isolating bottom plate, and this joint has failed.  Not the end of the world and easily fixed but I want dinner first!  Bit of wear to gear cog but it’s probably got some mileage left in it; carbon brushes are about half worn.  
 

Impression is of a well-used loco that has been well cared for and not over-lubed, but I’ll give the mech a thorough cleaning and re-lube it.  It has to be stripped down anyway to make the hacksaw cuts to shorten it for the NB. Wheelbase is about a foot longer then the NB, and assuming that Jouef got that right for the odd 3.9mm scale the model is built to, that’s a pity but there is little I can do about it.  Perhaps the NCB specified a longer wheelbase like they did for the ‘Fife Special’ Andrew Barclay 18” locos. 

Edited September 17, 2022 by The Johnster

[The Johnster]

Righty ho, now the mists are beginning to clear.  New pickups and a bit of work on the back-to-backs and Nellie is probably running as sweetly as she ever did.  So I started attacking the NB frame, first removing the motor (I’ve never seen a more freely running motor, btw) and then performing the most unseemly violence on the frame.  Most of the plastic in the centre, which was the support for the motor and the pickups, is gone, along with the sideframes between the cab and shunters’ steps, like this:-

 

 

Lining the remains of the NB up against Nellie’s mech shoes where it has to be trimmed.  It goes on the NB with the motor facing backwards, so that the magnet will be under the bonnet at the front.  This photo shows how it lines up and where it has to be trimmed; a preliminary scratch has already been made at the front and the rear cut will be directly behind the screw holding the tv suppressor.  I’ve managed to knock a buffer off, and will have to order replacements if I can’t find it!


 

The last photo shows that the proximity of the rear wheels to the cab steps means that a jackshaft crank will be completely hidden by them, which brings that debate to a close, though there is still some mileage in dummy coupling rods disappearing behind the steps thrashing around uselessly in thin air but at least suggesting the presence of a jackshaft and cranks.  To be fair, the jack cranks are pretty difficult to see in prototype photos.   Again, the need to trim the Nellie chassis is apparent.  

 

 

Edited September 17, 2022 by The Johnster

[The Johnster]

Thinking ahead to when it's time for cab detail, the Triang cog gear will intrude into the cab space about as far back as the doors, but will be conveniently hidden by the control console desk.  Somebody on Shapeways does a console for Dokafority, which might be a way to go, or I can scratch build one.  Many of these small diesel shunting locos had the cab laid out like the 08, with a desk protruding backwards into the cab with space each side of it where the driver sat in between it and the cab side window, facing inwards and sideways (actually, though not necessarily intuitively, a very successful ergonomic position), which plays to the need to hide the cog on this loco.  There were usually dual physically connected controls mirrored on each side so that the loco could be single manned and driven from either side.

 

Controls need to be dual power control levers and forward/idling/reverse lever on the console desk, and straight air brake handles on the cab front face.  Gauges for air pressure, brake air pressure, rpm, oil pressure, hydrauling fluid pressure, and an ammeter; don't thing a hydraulic needs a gear lever.  Handbrake standard or wheel on the rear cab face and possibly a hotplate for the teacan, with a teacan on it of course, and that's about it!

[The Johnster]

Before we get to the fun modelling bit, however, there is some serious work to be completed.  Trimming the Nellie chassis to a suitable length is the only option, as lengthening the body is taking scale liberties even if it is 0.1mm per foot under to start with...  The only way this can be done is laborious hacksawing through what are quite thick lumps of metal, which is going to be onerous and time consuming; not looking forward to it but it's got to be done, and the sooner it is finished the better!

 

Not tonight, though; I'm having a night off from the NB, going to install some new yard lamps at the colliery and have a running session to finish off the day's timetable; we're at about 21.30 now, and there a miners' up from Tondu at 22.50, and the Glamorgan Foodstuffs fully fitted now in the loop will get away asap (booked 22.55 but there's no point in it hanging about, this is the 3MT hauled train in the background of one of the NB pictures btw) after that arrives, ready to propel up the stub to Glynowgr from the ground frame.  The miners is due away at 22.10, plenty time for the Foodstuffs to lock itself in and shunt the factory.  It locks out and leaves for Cardiff Newtown after the last train of the day, an auto from Bridgend, clears the section at 22.55, and only takes a couple of minutes to clear to Blackmill, allowing the empty stock from the auto to get away usually before midnight.  This ecs is in practice often anything but, as any railway staff booking on overnight at TDU use it to travel in to work from Cwmdimbath, Blackmill, and Brynmenyn: it sometimes arrives at TDU with more passengers than it left Bridgend with 45 minutes or so before!

 

Simiarly, those that have booked off during the small wee hours at TDU use the first train up the valley, a miners' arriving at 05.50, to get home.

 

Glamorgan Foodstuffs and it's daily train are a blatant exuse to run specialist goods vans and a Barry loco.  Inbound loaded meat and fruit vans, the fruit being dried or canned and sent out in normal vanfits and the meat either canned, or frozen for a Navy contract which sent out in insulvans or containers.  Some is unloaded at Newtown but there is also traffic shunted to other trains there as well.

[uax6]

On 17/09/2022 at 09:30, Ian Smeeton said:

 

Fuel Tank?

 

Regards

 

Ian

 

It is the fuel tank, and according to Andrew Briddon Locos webpage (and weekendrails.co.uk) the filler is recessed into the top of this tank, where it rots out, letting rainwater into the tank.....

 

Andy G

[MrWolf]

1 hour ago, uax6 said:

 

It is the fuel tank, and according to Andrew Briddon Locos webpage (and weekendrails.co.uk) the filler is recessed into the top of this tank, where it rots out, letting rainwater into the tank.....

 

Andy G

 

Something that the designers of almost all modern motorcycles have adopted and haven't learned a thing in the last four decades! 🥺

[The Johnster]

Presumably the idea is a smooth top profile to the tank as a safety feature and for style, but it obviously hasn’t been thought through. 

[MrWolf]

It is, as well as a security measure, but the drainage arrangements (if any) soon block up and allow rainwater to be forced down the breather, especially when actually riding in the wet. The water and dirt gravitates to the bottom of the tank and merrily eats away at the metal, as well as wrecking ridiculously overcomplicated and often irreplaceable fuel taps. Leave a bike outside unused for a winter and it can be goodnight Vienna to the carbs or injection system.

 

Enough diversion, back to giving models a hack, did you manage to figure out what to do with the jackshaft arrangements, or will it be hidden by the steps anyway and not a priority?

[The Johnster]

 

Horatius holding the bridge…

 

Battle of wills/staring contest between local girl and Ianto Flatbed, and my money’s not on Ianto.  Don’t know the young lady’s form, but she has a determined ‘Gandalf and the Balrog’ air about her, ‘You shall not pass, Flame of Udun!’, and Ianto’s clearly already not having a good day, having apparently stepped in some of it and got some on his overalls, then use his cap to wipe it off…
 

[Ian Smeeton]

Barclay Sand box lids, for your detailed delectation....

 

Forward

 

Rear

 

From 'Sir Thomas Royden' a 14" Barclay 2088/1940.

 

I hope that these are useful.

 

Regards

 

Ian

[The Johnster]

Very useful indeed, Ian; tx!  Not difficult to make up either; milliput pinched into shape would probably do the job…

[The Johnster]

I was still not happy with the setup at the colliery yard; I found the 'bottom yard' crossover not to be needed in practice and didn't like the sharp curve close to the turnout of no.1 road, used to marshall loaded outbound wagons after they've been weighed, around the end of the loader frame; there were level issues here as well.  Luckily I hadn't bedded the last alteration in scenery yet, and only lightly fixed the track down, so up it all came yesterday evening, a cathartic sort of move...

 

It may not be in it's final form yet, but the rebuild involved moving the Faller 'Old Coal Mine' structure that forms the core of the loader and screens further away from the yard throat, by about a foot, which freed up a good bit of space and allowed the throat to flow more naturally IMHO.  There are now 4 'full length' roads and a shorter siding at the bottom end off no.1 (numbered from the BR running line ), using the two lh turnouts from the crossover, which means a bit more flexibility, at the cost of space behind the loader for a reservoir of empties to feed it.  There is now no need for a bottom yard pilot, but two locos working are still necessary for the weighbridge operation.  This is the basis of the argument for a diesel; it can be left ticking over or shut down at the bottom end of a road when it is not needed and started up at will without a fire or boiler water levels to worry about, while the steam pilot does most of the work shuffling wagons about.

 

The new track plan is simpler; perhaps I was trying too hard/being a bit too clever for my own good with the previous one.  There is still some mt reservoir space behind the loader, about 4 wagons, the capacity of the loader in fact. 

 

This means that the pithead area up on the mountainside must also be re-arranged in a more convincing form to facilitate moving coal from the headframe to the initial screen building where waste is removed and tipped up the mountain out of the way, and from this building into the secondary screens in the Faller building. There is a fan house for the ventilation system underground to find a new home for as well, and restoring the scenic treatment of the pithead area, so it will be a while yet before things settle down again.

 

The short road may find a role as stabling for the diesel or as a cripple siding, or an unloading facility for equipment and pit props, or even a landsale yard.  An inevitable consequence of the increased siding space will the acquisition of more coal wagons, possibly even some internal users, and I might even dig out my old quayside crane, Airfix 'Dockside Crane' (really a dockyard crane, it's far too feeble and has nowhere near enough winching power or luffing reach for cargo handling at the speeds required by commercial shipping operations) on a home-made, I'd hesitate to call it scratch-built which has finescale connotations, 4-wheeled chassis.  Might even make it self-propelled one day, a Lima Plymouth chassis would go under there...

 

Photos when I've tidied up a bit!

Edited September 23, 2022 by The Johnster