Double or Single Slip for this junction?

[DarrenMoffat]

The layout below is part of an L shaped end-to-end , this part is to have an Inglenook Sidings puzzle.  I'm intending to build it with N gauge Peco Code 55.   It will be DCC operated. My plan is to bring in the rake with a Class 37 on the lower line and reverse it over to the sidings, the Class 37 will detach and a Class 08 will be used for the puzzle to build a new rake and place it on the upper line to have it picked up by the Class 37.

 

I've never built in Code 55 before nor used anything other than short set track points.  Do I need a single or double slip ?

 

Thanks,

 

Darren

[jonny777]

My uninformative answer would be that you need a double slip due to space constraints, but one would be highly unlikely in a prototypical situation.

 

Sorry, but that probably does not help at all.

[beast66606]

What are the lines ? - the 3 sidings are fairly obvious but are the other two running lines for passengers ? for freight only ?

 

Freight only you could use a double slip, passenger lines would normally be a single, forming a crossover, but ... there are exceptions.

[DarrenMoffat]

What are the lines ? - the 3 sidings are fairly obvious but are the other two running lines for passengers ? for freight only ?

 

Freight only you could use a double slip, passenger lines would normally be a single, forming a crossover, but ... there are exceptions.

Freight only, the whole thing is a depot on an imaginary military base, with the running lines terminating at the left and out on to "the mainline" at the right.

[The Stationmaster]

Freight only, the whole thing is a depot on an imaginary military base, with the running lines terminating at the left and out on to "the mainline" at the right.

 

Double slip then.  However I can't quite see how the place would be worked as it's impossible to run-round without a second crossover.

[chaz]

You make the choice between single and double exactly as they would on the prototype, with regard to the operating need and the rules. As there is no passenger traffic the rules will be less onerous. The only other factors that might influence choice are initial expense and maintenance costs. If you are using Peco track expense might be a factor for you but whatever you decide keep Rule One in mind!

 

Chaz

[DarrenMoffat]

Double slip then.  However I can't quite see how the place would be worked as it's impossible to run-round without a second crossover.

My assumption is the Class 37 brings the rake on the bottom line, reverses over the slip pushing it into the top siding.  The Class 08 is sitting at the top left at this point.  The Class 37 detaches and goes back over the slip to the lower line.  The slip is changed and it crosses again onto the top of the two longer lines that curve off at the right hand side and waits there, just below the sidings.  The new rake is formed by the Class 08 which when finished pulls the rake to the left of the layout with the Class 08 finishing top left where it started.  It detaches and the Class 37 reverses over the slip and picks up the rake and heads off. 

 

The rake coming in and out is 5 box vans out of the 8 used for the inglenook puzzle, so it fits entirely in the top of the sidings.

[DarrenMoffat]

You make the choice between single and double exactly as they would on the prototype, with regard to the operating need and the rules. As there is no passenger traffic the rules will be less onerous. The only other factors that might influence choice are initial expense and maintenance costs. If you are using Peco track expense might be a factor for you but whatever you decide keep Rule One in mind!

 

Chaz

Cost of track is not an issue, available space is.  This will be on the wall at shoulder level in my home office - with the not shown double track line running just above my computer monitor.

[The Johnster]

Double slip for the operation you describe, but the 37 is more likely to arrive on the 'bottom' road and set the train back onto the other running line than onto the limited space of the 'top' siding; it's just a more railway-like move onto what will be an empty road with more space and no buffers to run into.  The wagons are then detached and the 37 returns light engine to the 'bottom' line, and the 08 takes over operations as before.  The 37 can now be moved to the other running line where you had it in the original operation if you like as soon as the 08 and wagons have cleared the double slip onto the headshunt, all of this being subject to rule 1 of course.

 

You could even stir the pudding a bit more by bringing another loco with more stock along the bottom line and using the 37 to pull it onto the other running line for the 08 to pick up...

[Dungrange]

My assumption is the Class 37 brings the rake on the bottom line, reverses over the slip pushing it into the top siding.  The Class 08 is sitting at the top left at this point.  The Class 37 detaches and goes back over the slip to the lower line.  The slip is changed and it crosses again onto the top of the two longer lines that curve off at the right hand side and waits there, just below the sidings.  The new rake is formed by the Class 08 which when finished pulls the rake to the left of the layout with the Class 08 finishing top left where it started.  It detaches and the Class 37 reverses over the slip and picks up the rake and heads off. 

 

The rake coming in and out is 5 box vans out of the 8 used for the inglenook puzzle, so it fits entirely in the top of the sidings.

As you describe this operation, you need a double slip. The 'lower' curve is required for your class 37 to move from the lower left line to the upper right line (ie through the crossover), while the 'upper' curve is required for the 08 to shunt the yard (effectively using the upper left line as a head shunt).  I agree that operation is more likely to be as The Johnster describes, but that also requires a double slip.

 

If you use a single slip, then this would have retain the 'upper' curve for the 08 to shunt the yard, which means that you would lose the crossover.  This could still be largely worked as you describe but when the Class 37 detaches, it would have to proceed towards the 08 on the upper line before drawing forward to its departure position.  This would mean that the full train length (locomotive and wagons) would have to fit into the yard to allow the slip to be thrown, which of course limits the length of train that you can operate.  Given that available space is your primary constraint, go with a double slip.

[DarrenMoffat]

Just found out about the Farish XH558 Vulcan special edition - that will be absolutely perfect for my plan!  Of course with a release date months away I'll need to pickup another Class 37 in the mean time.

[Izzy]

I would suggest that you revise the design to eliminate either single or double slip use. I have used code 55 examples of both and the running was so poor I ended up taking them out and re-making the track layout. It's just really a natural consequence of the N gauge track and wheel standards. They seem to end up having more gaps than rail in many places. I had some of the newer Farish 20T brake vans that just got stuck in them whatever I tried. Considering the cost of them it doesn't seem worth risking.

 

Here is changed layout which I think would work and give you the challenge that an inglenook provides. Just adjust/curve etc  the basic design as needed for your space. You can also download and print out actual size templates from the Peco website. Laying the plan out full size is always better than relying just on track planning software. If you have stock then you can plonk them on and get a real sense of what will result. Although you can always print Anyrail plans full size as well. I think it prints onto multiple PDF sheets you can tape together like Templot. I know I have done it in the past.

 

 

Ixxy

[DCB]

Double slip, this looks like a part of a truncated main line so I guess there would be a convergence of the two right hand lines off plan.
I would suggest that the shunting loco should be an industrial or Military loco as a BR Gronk is hardly likely to be stationed at such a small yard.

I would suggest the 08 shunts the outgoing wagons to the left upper line.  37 arrives, cuts off leaving wagons on the lower line and backs on to the outgoing wagons and departs. 08 then collects wagons and shunts as required.

[The Bigbee Line]

Shunting layouts can take any format.

 

If the track layout was the former 'main line' de-signalled etc I would suggest starting with the original layout and removing those items not essential for the siding operation.  Bearing mind it cost money to remove pointwork, so options are to leave as is with just hand levers or clip out of use.

 

Here is my suggestion of a 'before'. 

 

 

If you could squeeze it in, it gives numerous options, including single loco working.

 

The shunt loco can have formed the outbound wagons in three locations; the head shunt HS, between the diamond and A, and further along the same track between the diamond and the crossovers on the right.  That still allows an inbound service to arrive and the main line loco to release through the trailing connection, run to the right and make up its train for departure, brake test and away.  It could at a push depart light engine and the shunt loco still place the inbound vehicles, working around the outbound wagons.

 

Probably more interesting just to use the main line loco.  The main consideration is to get wagons in and out of the sidings with the loco at the left hand end, then run round at some point to end up with the loco at the right end for departure.  The fact that the run round is short is not unusual, in the real world there are some real shorties...

[The Bigbee Line]

Here is the shortest run round I've come across.....

 

 

[DarrenMoffat]

Thanks for all the input so far, it has been really helpful.

 

Assuming the original plan or something very close to it, what would be the likely signal placement.   My assumption is that in the sidings probably none.

 

I'm also considering that there is barbed-wire fencing and gating crossing the double track near to where the sidings are and a military guard house there.

[Happy Hippo]

Thanks for all the input so far, it has been really helpful.

 

Assuming the original plan or something very close to it, what would be the likely signal placement.   My assumption is that in the sidings probably none.

 

I'm also considering that there is barbed-wire fencing and gating crossing the double track near to where the sidings are and a military guard house there.

Forget guard rooms.  All the military depots that I worked in, both in the UK and BAOR just had a padlocked gate(s).

[TheSignalEngineer]

Forget guard rooms.  All the military depots that I worked in, both in the UK and BAOR just had a padlocked gate(s).

This post shows the rail entrance to the RAF depot at Hartlebury

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/84769-days-when-you-know-why-you-live-in-the-british-isles/?p=2269730

From shots in another topic on the forum this arrangement for the gates and fence was not unique.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/33863-military-railways-and-br-traffic-to-rafmod-bases/?p=1902292

[DarrenMoffat]

Thanks for the pointers to the pics, my memory of RAF Leuchars was clearly wrong - having not been there since cadets and airshows in the 80's. I was sure I remember a guard house near the rail gate. So no guard house it is then!

Thanks