RMweb Gold MarshLane Posted January 25, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 25, 2017 Ok, I'll start off by openly admitting, I've only had a quick look around on the net. But I'm planning on joining MERG, as I have a very basic electronics knowledge, but enjoy the topic. Im using a Digitrax DCC system, which is great and I'm very happy with it - no intention to change, but part of my new layout is going to be under TrainController operation, so am looking at servo control for points/signals and also the most cost-effective way of track circuiting (train detection). One thought I had was to use the MERG CBUS system for this, probably being cheaper than the eight section Digitrax detectors at £120 odd quid each! So the query, is has anyone used CBUS with TrainController before? Is it usable with TC? I know the TrainController software can work with several DCC systems at the same time, but I'm struggling to find any references to CBUS, which makes me think its incompatible. Any thoughts/comments/advice would be appreciated. Cheers Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ray H Posted January 25, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 25, 2017 RIch I'm not familiar with TrainController but assume it is software that you use to control trains. Apologies if I am wrong. CBUS is not a DCC specific system. CBUS provides a means through its own hardware - i.e. a number of kits of differing kinds - to do virtually anything one might want and to trigger re-actions to the initial actions. For example I am using it to move servos to operate points & signals. I do this with levers that operate micro switches that initiate CBUS commands on the bus to operate the relevant servo(s). It could also update a display to reflect the fact that the point has changed and through different hardware can re-act or otherwise to MERGs track occupancy detectors for example. All this is done regardless of whether I am controlling the trains by DCC or DC. Apologies if you already knew this but I hope it is of some help if you didn't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MarshLane Posted January 25, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 25, 2017 RIch I'm not familiar with TrainController but assume it is software that you use to control trains. Apologies if I am wrong. CBUS is not a DCC specific system. CBUS provides a means through its own hardware - i.e. a number of kits of differing kinds - to do virtually anything one might want and to trigger re-actions to the initial actions. For example I am using it to move servos to operate points & signals. I do this with levers that operate micro switches that initiate CBUS commands on the bus to operate the relevant servo(s). It could also update a display to reflect the fact that the point has changed and through different hardware can re-act or otherwise to MERGs track occupancy detectors for example. All this is done regardless of whether I am controlling the trains by DCC or DC. Apologies if you already knew this but I hope it is of some help if you didn't. Hi Ray, Thanks for that. Yes TrainController is a piece of PC software that interfaces with a large number of DCC systems (Lenz, Digitrax etc..) through which it can operate trains, accessories, signals etc, either being used as a basic switchboard, as a fully automated layout with trains running to a timetable, or just about any manual or automated option in between! My hope was that as DCC had been implemented with CBUS that TrainController could talk and interact with it. Im looking to use CBUS for controlling points/signals, but for a variety of reasons (which for simplicity I'll not go into!) every action that is made by my lever frame, needs to be passed back to TrainController - or put another way, each point and signal (regardless of how it is connected) needs to be able to react to a manual response from my lever frame, or an automated response from TrainController - hence my thought of routing all instructions over the DCC system, it keeps it relatively simple. The down side to that is that Digitrax detection boards are very expensive (into four figures!) for the number of section's I've got, hence I'm looking at other options, and was hoping that if CBUS and TrainController would talk to each other, that I could use MERG CBUS train detection boards. Cheers Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 I don't think there is support for MERG's CBUS system within TrainController. You'd have to approach TrainController to add it. (And they haven't to date because not enough people want it). An alternative to expensive boards for LocoNet is to build your own. Two main approaches here; there are kits from Hans De Loof in Belgium. They work out marginally more expensive than CBUS, but only by a small margin. I've built quite a lot of his boards, and they are excellent quality. Hans is a user of TrainController. or there are designs published for Arduino based input/output boards for LocoNet. Those are even cheaper, but a bit more "roll your own". If just trying to get cost of input/output boards down towards the price of MERG hardware, go with the Hans De Loof option. To setup HDL boards, you need either a Digitrax PR3 interface box (works fine with Hans' setup code), or one of Hans' own LocoBuffers (subtly different to the RR-Cirkits LocoBuffer). Or, you need a third-party way of configuring the HDL boards via a RR-Cirkits LocoBuffer, where I know of two methods: some Windows code written by Jeff Law in NewZealand or via JMRI and a spreadsheet I could let you have (written when I was manually configuring HDL boards due to PR3 interface issues which Hans has now fixed). - Nigel - Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MarshLane Posted January 25, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 25, 2017 Hi Nigel, Ah, you may well have just opened a door there! Do you have a web address for the HDL boards at all? Im looking at using an small Arduino project for a completely different reason with DCC, but the HDL would sound the best and most appropriate option going forward. If you can point me in the right direction that would be great - thanks for the input Nigel. Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIK Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 Hi Rich, According to the Freiwald/Train Controller website Train Controller does not support MERG CBUS. From my past experience with Train Controller I'm guessing its present non-support is because its not a commercial system and not being focussed on the German railway modeller doesn't help either. One doesn't need Train Controller or any other software to operate servo point/signal motors or display feedback from sensors but as you say you have basic electronic knowledge then established software like Train Controller ought to be very helpful IMHO. Background: I've used Train Controller Silver and JMRI and have looked through the ROCRAIL webpages. I was hoping someone would come up with an inexpensive translator unit between CBUS and one of the DCC system interfaces Train Controller does talk to. The NCE interface might be a good fit as I think the command set has been published by NCE. However such a unit is probably a bit specialist since MERG CBUS is inexpensive and Train Controller Silver/Gold are not. I don't currently have a need to use Train Controller with CBUS so I'm not volunteering to design a translator unit at present (and I haven't yet digested the MERG CBUS protocol documents). Regards Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 Is it hard to type "Hans De Loof" into Google ? It comes back as first hit for me. Its http://users.telenet.be/deloof/ Slightly old-fashioned website, in three languages, and you'll get references out to a shop called "HetSpoor" (which I guess may be Hans' local model shop) to buy the stuff. I buy only the minimum from HetSpoor (PCB and programmed PIC), then source the rest from electronics suppliers in the UK. I've used the MERG DTC-30 current sensors with the HDL LocoIO, using the LocoIO's 5v rail to power the DTC30 sensors. But, it may be cheaper/simpler to use the HDL sensors which have since been released. Another source of parts is through the RocRail project, where there is associated hardware, including a lot of LocoNet based kits available. Broadly similar in capabilities to the HDL stuff. - Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MarshLane Posted January 25, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 25, 2017 Hi Rich, According to the Freiwald/Train Controller website Train Controller does not support MERG CBUS. From my past experience with Train Controller I'm guessing its present non-support is because its not a commercial system and not being focussed on the German railway modeller doesn't help either. One doesn't need Train Controller or any other software to operate servo point/signal motors or display feedback from sensors but as you say you have basic electronic knowledge then established software like Train Controller ought to be very helpful IMHO. Background: I've used Train Controller Silver and JMRI and have looked through the ROCRAIL webpages. I was hoping someone would come up with an inexpensive translator unit between CBUS and one of the DCC system interfaces Train Controller does talk to. The NCE interface might be a good fit as I think the command set has been published by NCE. However such a unit is probably a bit specialist since MERG CBUS is inexpensive and Train Controller Silver/Gold are not. I don't currently have a need to use Train Controller with CBUS so I'm not volunteering to design a translator unit at present (and I haven't yet digested the MERG CBUS protocol documents). Regards Nick Thanks Nick - I'd searched around the Freiwald website and not come up with that, but was beginning to think that it could be the case, seen as nothing was showing up anywhere. I agree that TC isn't needed to operate things, because of the 'bigger view' that my project has, TC is a necessary part of the equation! Is it hard to type "Hans De Loof" into Google ? It comes back as first hit for me. Its http://users.telenet.be/deloof/ Hi Nigel, Sorry was at work when I replied, and hadn't engaged brain. Thanks anyway - and thanks for the heads up, I'd not come across that chap before. Cheers Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon H Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 I've used the MERG DTC-30 current sensors with the HDL LocoIO, using the LocoIO's 5v rail to power the DTC30 sensors. DTC-30? Not familiar with that version... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 DTC-30? Not familiar with that version... Those who are experts at MERG would know I probably meant the DTC8, and got numbers muddled. - Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junctionmad Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 Nigel , no support in TC for MERG CBUS/CANCMD. Unlikely to be either. Given there is both JMRI and RocRail, I dont see much call for it anyway Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MarshLane Posted January 30, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 30, 2017 Nigel , no support in TC for MERG CBUS/CANCMD. Unlikely to be either. Given there is both JMRI and RocRail, I dont see much call for it anyway Its a shame because for what I'm doing it would be absolutely ideal and bring a lower cost too! Although I admit, my plans and style of operating what is a model railway, are far beyond what 'normal' modellers would do, so can understand the lack of support. Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junctionmad Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Its a shame because for what I'm doing it would be absolutely ideal and bring a lower cost too! Although I admit, my plans and style of operating what is a model railway, are far beyond what 'normal' modellers would do, so can understand the lack of support. Rich what I meant was that there are already two layout automation packages already enabled to work with MERG CBUS. Hence unlikely there is any great call for a third one , given that many dont go for full automation anyway Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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