RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted February 4, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 4, 2017 I have just found a reference in the GWJ that Castle 5091 was running with a black tender in June 1947. Clearly I can't read something that interesting without wanting to model it! (Although this does rather contradict the info in the Langston Castle book which lists it with oil tenders from oct 46 to Nov 48.) Given that 5091 was rebuilt from a Star, is there anything different between it and a regular castle (as in can I get away with using Hornby's 2017 castle release as a basis?) Sadly there was no accompanying photo to help determine if the loco should be lined or unlined green Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 I think the Star rebuilds retained joggled frame fronts rather than the dished ones (which featured on mainstream batch Castles). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted February 4, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 4, 2017 Thanks for that, The more I look into it the more it sounds like an error in the GWJ article, would be very interested to hear if there were any corrections in the next issue. Unless one of the oil burning tenders was painted black, I cannot see how someone could have seen 5091 in Bristol June 47 with a black tender! I already have one loco which should have the joggle frames but my model does not, adding another would be a bit annoying. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 4, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 4, 2017 Note also that when converted to oil burning it acquired a cab roof ventilator on the Driver's side (not sure about the Fireman's side) and the horizontal handrail below the cab side window was moved to a lower position. According to the RCTS history 5091 had a converted 3,500 gallon tender when running as an oil burner. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted February 4, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 4, 2017 Note also that when converted to oil burning it acquired a cab roof ventilator on the Driver's side (not sure about the Fireman's side) and the horizontal handrail below the cab side window was moved to a lower position. According to the RCTS history 5091 had a converted 3,500 gallon tender when running as an oil burner.Apparently changed to a 4000gl tender 27th Feb 47... I think I will keep trying to find photos from June 47 and properly validate. I just can't understand why it would be black... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 The railways were on their last legs in the immediate aftermath of the war. Lots of things were given a quick slosh with black in the war, just to get them back on the road again. There were probably still a lot of black things around in mid-1947, even where the colour of the livery could be discerned beneath the grime. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted February 4, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 4, 2017 The railways were on their last legs in the immediate aftermath of the war. Lots of things were given a quick slosh with black in the war, just to get them back on the road again. There were probably still a lot of black things around in mid-1947, even where the colour of the livery could be discerned beneath the grime. True, but my logic was more that surely the tender would have received a cost of paint when carrying out major work on it. I'd love to be proved wrong and that when 5091 gained its 4000gl tender in feb47 it was actually black (an oil burning castle with a black tender sounds even better still than just a castle with a black tender!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowardGWR Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 I think the Star rebuilds retained joggled frame fronts rather than the dished ones (which featured on mainstream batch Castles). I offer in addition that the essence of a rebuilt engine is its frame and I can't imagine thus why there would be any need to change the Star frame which is the same as a 4073-onwards lot one (at the front end anyway). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 The difference between the Abbey rebuilds and the earlier Star rebuilds is the use of the later type inside cylinder casing, narrowed to fit the joggle frames. It made the front end look like a later build castle but the inside casing had a slimmed down look. The earlier rebuilds all had the 'vauxhall' style inside casing. Three of the Abbey's eventually received a double chimney which required complete new front end frames, and the standard width inside cylinder casing. Other changes for 5091 is the retention of the cab roof shutters, fitted during the oil fire conversion - also the cab side hand rail was much lower than 'standard'. This was due to cab side shutters being fitted and the lower runner being where the hand rail was normally positioned. Shutters/runners removed when converted back to coal. the handrail position remained low until scrapping. Throughout the oil firing period, 5091, along with 5083 were kept at Bristol. As for the 3,500 gallon oil tank tender, 5091 certainly was attached to it for official photos, but, as discussed in the oil fired thread, I have never found a shot 5091 actually running with it in day to day service. I am still looking. Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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