Methods of making a Private owner wagon look authintic

[844fan]

Hey all got a new one for ya,

When designing our model railway's sometimes we create lines that while inspired by places like the GNR or the LBSCR they exist on a branch or a mainline of our creation. In these cases we give our stations their own names reflecting things connected to us personally for example a line I came up with it's main Station is a place called Cobden (Cob like corn on the cob and den like the living space) Vale after a small town not far from where I live who's name is the same save for the vale part (That  for the station comes from the fact that it is located in a shady valley dip.) and Mark Found of the Garden Railway named his Walden Junction for a similar reason.

 

Some of us also go so far as to create our own little factorys and industrial plants for the towns we name. But then we want to take it a step further and want to give our said industry something most had during the golden age of rail and that is Private Owner wagons, Vans and Tankers for the goods to be hauled away by the railway and do a bit of advertising along the run.

 

My problem is I am wanting to follow in this set of foot steps and while I'm modeling in Trainz (Again blasted apartment is too small.) by at first reskining existing rolling stock (With it's creators blessing of course) I have only the smallest of understandings on where to start. In my case since my first wagons and vans are for use with Railway Series inspired stock (They have faces and as my signature says at the bottom that matters little to me.) I want to come up with names for the companies and what exactly they do. Like are they ballast carriers or maybe live stock handlers? 

 

Well that I can do quirte easy enough. But now comes the part I could really use help with. All rolling stock of certain regions have markings on them that aren't only for the owner like load limit and some other things. So what I need help with is a layout that would work on a real wagon while also carrying the livery of the PO. As well a few examples of the more interesting styles of livery out there would help me out as well giving me inspiration for where to put lettering and if any trucks every carried more than two colors on them for POs.

 

Also does anyone know the name of the fonts typically used for lettering and numbering not just wagons and such but also loco tenders and cab sides.

 

Hope that all makes sense and once again thank you all in advance. You all give me great info and I try my best not to let it go to waste.

 

 

[phil_sutters]

• In terms of examples in colour, you could do worse than look at the POWsides website http://www.powsides.co.uk/ . The Burnham & District MRC site has a mix of authentic and fictional PO examples http://www.burnhamanddmrc.org/ 

• There are a large number of books on PO wagons.

In terms of fonts Ariel in various weights is useful for plain lettering. If you are designing in Photoshop, or similar, don't forget that when you change from the 'Type' into a simplified layer, you can stretch or compress your lettering, vertically or horizontally. If you want it thicker you can easily do that with the 'stroke' function, adding a band of the same, or a different, colour, in 1 or more pixels width all around each letter. as long as there is the space between the letters.

The 'tare' weight script could be 'Bookman Old' in either regular or italic or if you want a fancier look 'Bickham Script Pro', If you need a more readily available font 'Times New Roman Italic' is another option.

Don't forget that quite a lot of designs included shading or 'drop shadows' in Photoshop terms.

These won't necessarily be exact matches to the fonts used, but will give the impression of that style of writing. Anyway there seems to have been a whole load of different fonts used, so variations won't be noticed, especially if you are creating your own liveries.

For locos it depends which company - but a couple you could play around with are Wide Latin and Times New Roman Bold. Again stretching or compressing will give you alternatives and shading/drop shadows was used as well.

[Nearholmer]

"Also does anyone know the name of the fonts typically used for lettering and numbering not just wagons and such but also loco tenders and cab sides."

 

Mr Sutters' advice looks very good to me, but a key thing to remember is that wagon painters didn't often use "fonts", "typefaces" in the language of the day. They used their own lettering designs, which may, or may not, have been based upon or derived from some standard types. Only when it came to those very few wagons that re-produced the logo of a large company, Cadbury's, Colman's etc, were they sticking very closely to someone else's design - for the most part the wagon-painter was the lettering and layout designer too.

 

Wagon painters deserve a lot of respect for their design, because they knew how to subtly vary letter-widths, spacing etc to get a balanced look ...... whenever I've tried to create fictitious liveries, that is the bit that I've messed-up!

 

I think they had "pattern books" available to them, but they were 'points of departure', rather than things to be slavishly copied.

 

K

[phil_sutters]

"Also does anyone know the name of the fonts typically used for lettering and numbering not just wagons and such but also loco tenders and cab sides."

 

Mr Sutters' advice looks very good to me, but a key thing to remember is that wagon painters didn't often use "fonts", "typefaces" in the language of the day. They used their own lettering designs, which may, or may not, have been based upon or derived from some standard types. Only when it came to those very few wagons that re-produced the logo of a large company, Cadbury's, Colman's etc, were they sticking very closely to someone else's design - for the most part the wagon-painter was the lettering and layout designer too.

 

Wagon painters deserve a lot of respect for their design, because they knew how to subtly vary letter-widths, spacing etc to get a balanced look ...... whenever I've tried to create fictitious liveries, that is the bit that I've messed-up!

 

I think they had "pattern books" available to them, but they were 'points of departure', rather than things to be slavishly copied.

 

K

You are absolutely right. I recently tried to reproduce an elaborate CCT advertizing the coachbuilders Fuller's of Bath. It had been mentioned in a thread here and I acquired Richard Kelham's PO Wagons of Somerset, where it appears as a frontispiece. The lettering had to be compressed and expanded to fit the panel sizes. Easy enough to do in Photoshop, but requiring much more skill and craftmanship on the real thing. 

If you are working in miniature and want a nice crisp finish then starting with easily found fonts is the way to go.

 

Phil

[844fan]

 

• In terms of examples in colour, you could do worse than look at the POWsides website http://www.powsides.co.uk/ . The Burnham & District MRC site has a mix of authentic and fictional PO examples http://www.burnhamanddmrc.org/ 
• There are a large number of books on PO wagons.
• In terms of fonts Ariel in various weights is useful for plain lettering. If you are designing in Photoshop, or similar, don't forget that when you change from the 'Type' into a simplified layer, you can stretch or compress your lettering, vertically or horizontally. If you want it thicker you can easily do that with the 'stroke' function, adding a band of the same, or a different, colour, in 1 or more pixels width all around each letter. as long as there is the space between the letters.
• The 'tare' weight script could be 'Bookman Old' in either regular or italic or if you want a fancier look 'Bickham Script Pro', If you need a more readily available font 'Times New Roman Italic' is another option.
• Don't forget that quite a lot of designs included shading or 'drop shadows' in Photoshop terms.
• These won't necessarily be exact matches to the fonts used, but will give the impression of that style of writing. Anyway there seems to have been a whole load of different fonts used, so variations won't be noticed, especially if you are creating your own liveries.
• For locos it depends which company - but a couple you could play around with are Wide Latin and Times New Roman Bold. Again stretching or compressing will give you alternatives and shading/drop shadows was used as well.

 

Excellent resources there my good sir. I'll definitely find some good inspiration for my PO wagons from the first two links and I'll look for books next time I can order off Abebooks.

 

I tend to mock up my stuff in Paint and add details and Alpha channels and such in GIMP a free Photoshop like program. I will be needing it to get weathering to look good on my stock. But since I'm working with textures as of the moment getting the right fit will be slightly easier than if I were trying to make a transfer or such for a physical model.

 

Mainly on the font front I was looking for the typical letter sets used to number or add a railway's Abbreviation to the tender but the type face of maximum load and axle tonage were for the most part a uniform design so I'll try the font you recommended for those smaller letters.

 

"Also does anyone know the name of the fonts typically used for lettering and numbering not just wagons and such but also loco tenders and cab sides."

 

Mr Sutters' advice looks very good to me, but a key thing to remember is that wagon painters didn't often use "fonts", "typefaces" in the language of the day. They used their own lettering designs, which may, or may not, have been based upon or derived from some standard types. Only when it came to those very few wagons that re-produced the logo of a large company, Cadbury's, Colman's etc, were they sticking very closely to someone else's design - for the most part the wagon-painter was the lettering and layout designer too.

 

Wagon painters deserve a lot of respect for their design, because they knew how to subtly vary letter-widths, spacing etc to get a balanced look ...... whenever I've tried to create fictitious liveries, that is the bit that I've messed-up!

 

I think they had "pattern books" available to them, but they were 'points of departure', rather than things to be slavishly copied.

 

K

A fact I never meant to detract from was the talent the painters of these PO wagons as like you've said un less it was a regional Truck or on owned by larger industries like the examples you listed they were making the letters by hand and indeed after looking at a few in one of my old books they often invented a new typeface style of their own that no one but them used. Trucks could even have variations to a degree on PO wagons since it was done by patern guides and freehand minor discrepancys were never a problem but most likly the norm.

[corneliuslundie]

Tje LNER used a variant of Gill for a lot of its work. the GWR numbers are shown in Great Western Way and i suspect that there are also sources for many other companies.

One method i have used on MSTS (not Trainz but I am sure it would work) is to scan a photo from a book (such as Keith Turton's 14 volumes on PO wagons), square it up and adjust it in Gimp to the proportions of the wagon side and then overlay it on the existing graphics file for the wagon. It works fine for wagons without end doors, vans etc but I had to cheat on wagons with end doors. for the "other" side I crop a bit off the end door end with the hinge etc and put it the other end. The diagonal strapping doesn't quite line up, but it is good enough at normal viewing distances. I have done a lot of South Wales wagons as most were black and white, and one or two where the lettering was white shaded red, but only one I think where i coloured the wagons sides and ends. These have been for my private use.

There were RCH rules about the layout of information on PO wagons. I have seen it somewhere, but you can work out most of it by looking at wagons, such as the position of the number, tare weight, load and address (if that is not a misnomer on many wagons). Not all wagons users followed the rules but most did. There were also strict rules about colours and lettering of tank wagons (see Oil on the Rails) which changed over time.

There are also litle things which can be added, depending on date, notably the Commuted Charge markings.

Also many wagons carried an owner's plate on the body, since they were actually owned by the wagon builder or a hire company. There was also often a plate for the wagon repairer. Some Gloucester built wagons had three slightly different Gloucester plates for these reasons.

I know you are talking about fictional wagons, but think about wagons which would have worked in your area - the coal merchant in the next town, business which supplied the town etc. And of course colliery wagons and those of coal factors would have worked in.

There is a very good on-line index to PO wagons.

Jonathan

[Guy Rixon]

Drop shadows are not the same as block shading. You might get away with a drop shadow in 2mm scale, but it wont be right when looked at closely. I think it would look quite wrong on 4mm scale or larger.

 

A while back, a member of the 2mm Association designed a computer font that followed the conventions of wagon sign-writers and, IIRC, had proper shading. This was made freely available to members and might have been shared more widely. Unfortunately, I can't remember whose work it was and I'm not a member of the Association any more so I can't look it up.

[Nearholmer]

Added to which, block shading can be applied 'lit' from any of 360 degrees in one, plane and 90 degrees in the other, IIRC. Some common conventions were often applied, but sign-writers sometimes decided to have a field day, and do something very unusual - maybe they persuaded some clients to pay for something a bit special.

[phil_sutters]

Drop shadows are not the same as block shading. You might get away with a drop shadow in 2mm scale, but it wont be right when looked at closely. I think it would look quite wrong on 4mm scale or larger.

 

A while back, a member of the 2mm Association designed a computer font that followed the conventions of wagon sign-writers and, IIRC, had proper shading. This was made freely available to members and might have been shared more widely. Unfortunately, I can't remember whose work it was and I'm not a member of the Association any more so I can't look it up.

The wagons in question are being run on Trainz computer simulation programme, so I was keeping the approach to one which could be created using simple computer techniques. There are ways that block shading can be produced in Photoshop and similar programmes using bevels and layers etc, but the level of detail that I have seen on computer simulations probably doesn't warrant the extra work. However I haven't seen many and they are improving all the time, I guess. I am always happy to accept when I am not fully up to speed with developments.

 

I have played around with some different methods of producing shaded lettering in Photoshop Elements. The top two use a bevelled effect and have a look of the block shading, although the method could do with a bit more work. The other two clearly don't have the angled corners, but are easier to reproduce in simpler software programmes, I would guess.