EddieB Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 I've tried this in another place without getting any information.- I wonder if there is expertise in French industrial systems here. In the early hours of one morning in May 1990, I took a couple of photographs of a private locotracteur shunting sugar tank wagons at an industrial siding in France. The loco is a mystery to me and I haven't kept a record of the place - all I can say is that the location was near the road-side and somewhere between the Channel Ports and Dijon (nearer to Dijon than Calais). I've been unable to find anything similar, although it doesn't help that I've few search parameters to go. My guess is that it is a battery-electric, with the driver operating via a remote control from within the cab. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Not so sure about the battery-electric idea; there seem to be quite a few 'gubbins' behind the missing grill cover. The design rings a bell from somewhere, though the example I recall was in a rather more industrial setting. You could try sending a copy to the people on this site; there are a few industrial enthusiasts there:- https://lapassiondutrain.blogspot.co.uk/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 I wonder if it might be an earlier product from http://www.railrouteeurope.com/index.php The driver appears to be using RC, and I googled locotracteur radiocommande . It looks to have bogies, but that could be an outer set of rail guidewheels, and an inner set of rubber-tyre wheels for traction/highway use. There is a French industrial railway society that will know for sure, I'm sure http://www.railetindustrie.com Or, contact these guys, who sell and repair such weird things http://www.etic-ferroviaire.com The cab is very similar to those on some rail/road vehicles made by, I think, Brimont, which was (again IIRC) taken over by the outfit that I linked to at the start. Kevin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted February 24, 2017 Author Share Posted February 24, 2017 Thank you, Brian and Kevin for some very helpful suggestions. You've given me some more clues and search parameters, which I'll try to work with before attempting to contact the French group if nothing turns up. I'm reasonably familiar with the main French locomotive builders, but hadn't heard of some of those dealing with what the Americans call "critters". I had looked at the Rail et Industrie site a few weeks ago - but for some reason I'm being denied access when I navigate there now. When I looked earlier, there was a sample copy of their journal viewable on-line, which just happened to be dedicated to the sugar industry - I thought I'd find this locotracteur within, but sadly it wasn't to be! Their journal looks very well produced and comparable to Industrial Railway Record, but sadly the cost of buying a full set of back numbers would be too great for the moment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Thank you, Brian and Kevin for some very helpful suggestions. You've given me some more clues and search parameters, which I'll try to work with before attempting to contact the French group if nothing turns up. I'm reasonably familiar with the main French locomotive builders, but hadn't heard of some of those dealing with what the Americans call "critters". I had looked at the Rail et Industrie site a few weeks ago - but for some reason I'm being denied access when I navigate there now. When I looked earlier, there was a sample copy of their journal viewable on-line, which just happened to be dedicated to the sugar industry - I thought I'd find this locotracteur within, but sadly it wasn't to be! Their journal looks very well produced and comparable to Industrial Railway Record, but sadly the cost of buying a full set of back numbers would be too great for the moment. You don't remember which route you took towards Dijon, do you? I use one that takes me past several sugar refineries, at Reims, Chalons and Troyes. The photo almost looks as though it could be near the latter, where the former Troyes- Chatillon-Dijon line runs parallel to the (former) N71. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted February 24, 2017 Author Share Posted February 24, 2017 You don't remember which route you took towards Dijon, do you? I use one that takes me past several sugar refineries, at Reims, Chalons and Troyes. The photo almost looks as though it could be near the latter, where the former Troyes- Chatillon-Dijon line runs parallel to the (former) N71. Unfortunately not - whether I made a note of the location and subsequently mislaid it or was barely awake having driven overnight with a short sleep in a lay-by that I never wrote anything down is lost in the mists of time. Troyes could be a possibility, as I was quite likely retracing the route taken the previous year (in each case the main destination wasn't a railway, but the Gran Paradiso NP in the Aosta Valley, Italy - but with plenty of railway interest thrown in). The first stop of the morning then was to photograph a train near Langres (before making a detour to Culmont-Chalindrey). The locotracteur was moving the wagons on a single track that ran near to the road - possibly crossed it. From what I gather, the sugar beet industry tends towards a network of feeder tracks serving the farms of northern and eastern France, with a concentration of factories in the south and west. However I'm guessing that this must have been near a sucrerie given the bulk tankers rather than raw beet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Unfortunately not - whether I made a note of the location and subsequently mislaid it or was barely awake having driven overnight with a short sleep in a lay-by that I never wrote anything down is lost in the mists of time. Troyes could be a possibility, as I was quite likely retracing the route taken the previous year (in each case the main destination wasn't a railway, but the Gran Paradiso NP in the Aosta Valley, Italy - but with plenty of railway interest thrown in). The first stop of the morning then was to photograph a train near Langres (before making a detour to Culmont-Chalindrey). The locotracteur was moving the wagons on a single track that ran near to the road - possibly crossed it. From what I gather, the sugar beet industry tends towards a network of feeder tracks serving the farms of northern and eastern France, with a concentration of factories in the south and west. However I'm guessing that this must have been near a sucrerie given the bulk tankers rather than raw beet. Sadly, the days of a network of (narrow-gauge) tracks bringing beet for refining are long gone; these days, the farmers tip freshly-harvested beet in pre-arranged locations at the road-side, whence articulated tippers collect it to take to the refinery. Rail is sometimes used to bring limestone (used in the refining process) in, and to take refined/semi-refined sugar and, increasingly, ethanol bio-fuel out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Looks similar https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@48.2066927,4.1599803,3a,75y,89.45h,75.88t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKgoKnrwnxZ160BFRIiTc0Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Looks similar https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@48.2066927,4.1599803,3a,75y,89.45h,75.88t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKgoKnrwnxZ160BFRIiTc0Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 That's the place I was thinking of- there's a grain silo that still sends traffic by rail off to the right, whilst the gravel pits still have traces of a private siding leading in to them. There's a reasonable 'routier' near the grain silo, if anyone's passing.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Well, the plot thickens ....... this machine seems to mystify our French opposite numbers too! They had a thread discussing it on LR Presse Forum as far back as 2007, and their verdict appears to be that it is by ACM. I reproduce the photo that sparked their debate, plus one of a machine that is definitely by ACM, which I found on Flickr. Kevin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 It's a very late 1960s/early 1970s design, isn't it? It needs a bit more chrome, along with some fluffy dice.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ColinK Posted February 24, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 24, 2017 Odd design, rubber tyres and flanges. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 The French have long liked to put rubber tyres on rail vehicles - there is a whole genre of metros built on that basis, supposedly to reduce noise and vibration, but at the price of greatly increased drag. In this instance, it probably actually is a good idea, because it allows a relatively light machine to shift a whoppingly heavy load, which, even with sanding, would probably be beyond it with steel-on-steel. Design-wise, it instantly made me think "Thunderbirds". K Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 I did a bit of further digging- apparently, at least some of this manufacturer's locos used a Massey Ferguson tractor drive train, and gerbox, along with a Perkins diesel. If anyone's interested in 'original' designs for diesel shunters, I recommend wasting a few hours looking at this site:- http://forum.e-train.fr/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=12749 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 169 pages!?!? Anyway, I couldn't resist pursuing my earlier thought - it is definitely a cross between the two below, and those cereal silos actually house Thunderbird 3. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted February 24, 2017 Author Share Posted February 24, 2017 You don't remember which route you took towards Dijon, do you? I use one that takes me past several sugar refineries, at Reims, Chalons and Troyes. The photo almost looks as though it could be near the latter, where the former Troyes- Chatillon-Dijon line runs parallel to the (former) N71. Well I started to draft a reply* - before the internet went down for the third time today - by the time I got off the line to booking a BT engineer, found up my old Michelin atlas and traced along with Google Streetview wealth of replies have arrived! I either mislaid a note, or more likely was semi-awake from an overnight drive and a few hours sleep in a lay-by and never recorded the location. However, I was retracing a route from the previous year, where I had stopped near Langres to photograph a passing train (on that occasion made a detour to Culmont-Chalindrey). Certainly Troyes and the former N71 (now D671) does seem very likely and there is a silo served by the track near the ponds (etangs?). I draw a certain amount of comfort that the French are also debating the origin of this little beast - but I feel we are a whole lot nearer to le fin than we started: thank you all. *In all the excitement I hadn't noticed I'd posted it, so sorry for the duplication here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted February 24, 2017 Author Share Posted February 24, 2017 Now come on, Kevin, that's just silly. Besides, surely the lower green section is more like Thunderbird 2? Yes, 169 pages indeed - and there was I thinking La Vie du Rail's recent book on the subject was the last word on French industrials. Comme faux! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted February 24, 2017 Author Share Posted February 24, 2017 Not the same - but very similar: Now that I've some idea what I'm looking at, I can see that the panels below the cab on my photos are actually the letters "A C M". Edit: This may be it - nicked from p76 of 169. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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