Deliberately Old-Fashioned 0 Scale - Chapter 1

[Nearholmer]

There was a family, mum, dad and two pads about eight years old, at the meeting yesterday, and they bought along some 1950s diesels too, Heljan I think, so we had quite a few running.

[GRASinBothell]

Did the Southern run those Bo-Bos? Or is Birlstone being transferred to another region?

Gordon

[Nearholmer]

That is an awkward question, which I was hoping that nobody would ask.

 

When we are in 1950s mode, it’s a bit unclear where Birlstone is, to be honest. Nationalisation got taken seriously here, and has resulted in a pooling of locomotives from all regions, and from none (BL generics), plus visiting LT.

 

Maybe it’s in North Bucks, which had GWR, GCR, Met., SMJ, Midland, and LNWR, so ticks three BR regions and London Transport. 

 

Edit: actually, the SMJ didn't quite get into Bucks - the junction with the Midland was a few hundred yards into Northamptonshire, although trains did run on into Bucks over Midland track.

 

Edit to Edit: SMJ reinstated. As I first thought, the junction was just inside a squiggle in the county boundary, on the Bucks side. Don't rely on the Ian Allan 'Pre-Grouping Atlas and Gazetteer' for such details; check the 25" map!

Edited February 25, 2020 by Nearholmer

[GRASinBothell]

And there was I thinking that all those pictures with locomotives and stock in Southern livery meant it was in Southern territory...

Of course, I run Great Western, LMS, Southern and London Transport all together,with a few pre-grouping thrown in, and there's nowhere I could pretend that lot could be together (except perhaps a preserved line), so I should talk!

If all else fails, Rule 1 applies...

Gordon

[GRASinBothell]

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Edited February 25, 2020 by GRASinBothell
Duplicate post

[Nearholmer]

9 hours ago, GRASinBothell said:

I thinking that all those pictures with locomotives and stock in Southern livery meant it was in Southern territory

 

When running in pre-nationalisation mode it is, very definitely. To quote Sir Arthur Conan-Doyle, writing of the 1870s:

 

"The village of Birlstone is a small and very ancient cluster of half-timbered cottages on the northern border of the county of Sussex."

 

He goes on to pin its location in relation to Tunbridge Wells, and to speculate that it will grow to become a prosperous town, which in model-railway-land it has.

 

The problem with post-nationalisation mode is that the locomotive stud is rather less geographically focused!

 

As a footnote, Sir A C-D based Birlstone very firmly on the old part of Groombridge, including the Groombridge Place as Birlstone Manor, and The Crown, which Blue Lightning might know was for several years the venue for the UMRC annual dinner.

[GRASinBothell]

Blue Lightning?

UMRC?

Gordon

[BlueLightning]

3 minutes ago, GRASinBothell said:

Blue Lightning?

UMRC?

Gordon

 

Blue Lightning would be me.

 

UMRC would be Uckfield Model Railway Club, where Kevin was once a member, and I am now membership secretary

 

Gary

Edited February 26, 2020 by BlueLightning

[GRASinBothell]

Thanks for the explanation. I suspected Blue Lightning was a member, but had no clue about UMRC.

Gordon

[Nearholmer]

One more gratuitous photo for now.

 

I really do like the Hornby Dublo aesthetic, which was the same as the contemporary BL aesthetic. Stern, but at the same time somehow glowing.

 

To me, it shouts 1950s (even if only one thing in the photo actually dates from then) in a way that hi-fi models don’t quite.

 

 

 

 

[GRASinBothell]

So, is that "one thing" the locomotive (Basset-Lowke?) at rear, or the figure on the platform?

I take your point about the Hornby-Dublo aesthetic, but the Bo-Bo never did it for me when I had Dublo as a child - maybe because I never saw them. Living in Bath, the Trix Warship, together with the Dublo Castle were my choice.

Gordon

[Nearholmer]

I can well-remember Warships on the Waterloo-Exeter trains, and have been tempted by the Ace one, but not given-in so far.

 

They are beautiful runners, and hauled short trains in North Devon, but are a bit too symbolic of the GWR takeover and run-down of SR services!

[Northroader]

They were a damn nuisance, and the control sheet every morning would show at least a dozen of the class running as “type 2 only” (I.e. one engine out, and no quick fix solution) hence their fondness for short trains in North Devon.

[Nearholmer]

Yes, from what I understand when they were replaced by Class 33 to Exeter everyone was happier having a guaranteed Type 3 than a half the time Type 4, half the time Type 2.

 

The Class 33 went very slowly with the loads (eight cars IIRC) on the hills West of Exeter though, so were replaced with Class 50, which failed completely with monotonous regularity, became Type 0, on a daily basis.

 

What I could never work out was why they didn’t keep the 33s, which were reliable, and cut the load down to, say, six or four cars West of Exeter, with which they could go like the wind ........ I remember riding on those trains and having an entire carriage to myself from Waterloo, let alone Exeter. I think they were only full at peak times.

 

Doubtless there was an invisible logic. Something to do with aircon?

Edited February 28, 2020 by Nearholmer

[Compound2632]

On 26/02/2020 at 17:25, BlueLightning said:

UMRC would be Uckfield Model Railway Club, where Kevin was once a member, and I am now membership secretary

 

 

I'm hoping those two facts are unrelated.

 

Please excuse the facetious post, just an excuse to put down a maker so that I see further posts in this splendid thread.

 

Back to those original Hornby timplate engines - so self-evidently based on a LNWR prototype (any child of 1920 would have seen it's a George the Fifth), as one would expect from the location of Binns Road, and yet initially advertised with a MR wagon?

[Nearholmer]

28 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

I'm hoping those two facts are unrelated.

They are, at least I believe they are.

 

i moved away from the area Getting on for forty years ago (crikey!), and the members held a whip-round and presented me with a loft ladder as a leaving present. It has lasted very well, and still serves its purpose at my older daughter’s house!

 

 

Edited February 28, 2020 by Nearholmer

[GRASinBothell]

I guess the Warships weren't all that reliable, even at the beginning.

When I saw them running through Bath, they were starting to supplant Castles, but it wasn't uncommon to have them double-heading with one of the "replaced" steam locos - an arrangement I was happily able to replicate with my Trix and Dublo locos.

Gordon

[Porkscratching]

That'd be a good one for the "prototype for anything" thread !!

[Donw]

Well what may have been unreliable and a pain in the neck full size can in model form be a most useful loco or vice versa. There was a period when so many Paddington bound trains due to stop at Reading were subject to engine failures the crowd waiting on the platform cheered when it arrived with a replacement steamer up front. Adrian Vaughan recounts a case where a Diesel failed and the only engine available was a pannier which gamely set off with the failed engine and train. At some point te diesel came back to life and the pannier was seen running at speed with the rods flying round although the diesel was probably taking all the load by then

 

Don

[Compound2632]

1 minute ago, Donw said:

Well what may have been unreliable and a pain in the neck full size can in model form be a most useful loco or vice versa. There was a period when so many Paddington bound trains due to stop at Reading were subject to engine failures the crowd waiting on the platform cheered when it arrived with a replacement steamer up front. Adrian Vaughan recounts a case where a Diesel failed and the only engine available was a pannier which gamely set off with the failed engine and train. At some point te diesel came back to life and the pannier was seen running at speed with the rods flying round although the diesel was probably taking all the load by then

 

Don

 

I thought that tale featured a 28xx, on a down train to Bristol.

[Nearholmer]

Here’s an engine that doesn’t get run as much as it deserves.
 

 

One of the many variants of ‘Prince Charles’, which is a really useful engine: compact, dignified enough for a secondary express, but not too grand, ideal for tight curves, and still trotting along at c1000mA 7V at pensionable age. Des knaben wunsch, as the German’s say, although that turned into a motorbike.

 

These oldsters are pretty noisy compared with current production though - distinctive growl which, when combined with the rattle of the coaches, drowns-our the radio.

 

 

The excellent turntable that Mr Holmes built for me really shows it’s worth with 4-4-0 locos.

 

 

Edited February 29, 2020 by Nearholmer

[GRASinBothell]

I was a little suprised to note that it has a key hole, despite being electric.

Was that the normal approach for Bassett-Lowke?

As you say, a good size for a secondary express. My Ace Schools and Celebration have to fulfill that role. Well, you can add my Lionel Hall to the list, I suppose, but I run that on a separate line, to avoid any risk of getting AC into the DC locos.

Gordon

[Nearholmer]

I’d have to go round checking which locos do and don’t have keyholes, but certainly Prince Charles came with one irrespective of the mechanism. Don’t forget that this loco was specifically aimed at boys, and made to a price, even if it was a price that most boys’ parents could only dream of being able to spend on a toy.

[Nearholmer]

On 28/02/2020 at 16:35, Compound2632 said:

Back to those original Hornby timplate engines - so self-evidently based on a LNWR prototype (any child of 1920 would have seen it's a George the Fifth), as one would expect from the location of Binns Road, and yet initially advertised with a MR wagon?

 

Missed this earlier.

 

There were LNWR wagons and black locos too.

 

The other thing is that Meccano made a much less well-known clockwork toy train, not branded Hornby, called The Tinprinted Train, also 0 gauge, also in 1920. That set was all directly ripped-off from a pre-WW1 Bing products (its been argued that it might have used appropriated tooling, but most seem to favour it being copied), including the loco, which was a cut-down George the Fifth 0-4-0, which is actually a much better looking loco than the first Hornby IMO. https://www.vectis.co.uk/lot/Hornby-o-gauge-m3-0-4-4-0-loco-and-tender-lnwr-lined-black-george_567033  

 

The Hornby branded item was better made, had more play value (you could take it to bits with Meccano tools), not much more expensive, was enameled rather than lithoed, and was advertised very heavily.

 

Meccano didn't specialise in litho at the time, so I wonder if the tinprinting of The Tinprinted Train had to be out-sourced. Anyway, it seems to be a slight subject of shame, copying the Bosch and all that, so seldom gets mentioned!

 

 

Edited February 29, 2020 by Nearholmer

[GRASinBothell]

Kevin,

Thanks for the response, but don't go looking on my behalf. I was just surprised that they used the identical body for clockwork and electric. Even Hornby didn't do that.

Gordon