Jonathan's Modern Image Workbench (3D-printed class 323 EMU, class 156s, 3-car 144s, a 141, 4-car class 465s)

[JDW]

1 hour ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Jonathan,

 

I must have been having a bit of a moment there, the only positive being getting the "J" right.

 

Apologies for suffering from numbtyitis.

 

Gibbo.

 

Nae worries, I've been called a lot worse!

[BusDriverMan]

On 22/06/2020 at 11:03, JDW said:

(Re-)Start the engine with doors open and an alarm shrieks at you til you close them.

I drove a Wrightbus-bodied Volvo which was worse. Start the engine with the doors open and the bus silently stays in neutral when you put it into gear. Bit of a surprise to be rolling backwards when trying to leave a bus stop you were waiting at for five minutes on a hot day with the doors open.

 

Cue fifteen minutes phoning call with the depot, who haven't got a clue, turning everything off and on again, attempting the engine bay start button, before more or less arriving on the solution by chance.

 

Never drove a Streetlite but disappointed by the reports upthread. Was always supremely disenchanted by the Optare Solo and hoped that the Streetlite, while too big to be a Solo replacement, would at least be better :/

 

We had one Solo which, IIRC, would ignore movement of the accelerator pedal if you didn't leave a considerable pause between releasing the handbrake and pressing the accelerator. Great way to take the driver's attention away from the road and into the cab when intending to turn right at a traffic light, or leave a bus stop. Resulted in consciously breaking the habit of applying the handbrake whenever stopped for more than a few seconds.

 

What? Oh, the trains? Yes, very very nice modelling! Good info on the Railmatch cans. I've got a few which I intend to use for total resprays - starting with a 122 - and now I'm mentally prepared

[JDW]

55 minutes ago, BusDriverMan said:

What? Oh, the trains? Yes, very very nice modelling! Good info on the Railmatch cans. I've got a few which I intend to use for total resprays - starting with a 122 - and now I'm mentally prepared

 

Trains, what trains?! Actually, it seems my 323 has arrived although I'm away for work at the moment so can't check til I get back. The 141 has finally been delivered to a friend who will brush paint the red and cream and apply transfers.

 

At least it was on a Volvo chassis though, always pretty decent to drive though I have to say I preferred the older B10BLEs to newer B7RLEs. 

 

I've only driven a Solo a couple of times on loan to us, I've not had a newer one, but comparing that or a Dart to something newer like a Streetlite, the big difference is electrics. A Solo or Dart has electrics, whereas a Streetlite is all electronics. I've driven a  few Darts where the accelerator was more like an on-off switch, amongst various other "quirks", but a good driver can live with that and adapt his technique to moderate and control it. Ever tried to sound the horn on an Enviro300? Have to ask the computer. Push button. Release button. Slight pause. BEEP! 

 

[JDW]

My 323 shells have arrived, and don't seem too bad. The quality of printing is better than anticipated. There are a few things I'll need to look at, the area over the bogies doesn't look quite right but I've only had a quick look over them so far.

The saloon windows seem a little low and the doors a little squat, although the windows seem ok in relation to the bottom of the windscreen. 

First off though will be joining the two halves together. There is a rebate to locate one in the other, but they seem to have bowed outwards at the bottom. It might have been good to include a couple of cross-braces to hold the sides in line and also provide a convenient way to mount it onto a chassis. But it doesn't look like there should be a major issue, the plastic feels quite rubbery. 

Can anyone recommend a particular type of glue? Will plastic weld touch it? Superglue? Contact adhesive?

 

 

 

 

[cheesysmith]

Normal super glue would work. Last one i did with resin i used pound shop special stuff. Make sure it fits together and any file work is done before the glue.

[JDW]

I have started doing some prep work on the 323, apart from the bowing out of the 'open' ends of each half, they seem pretty good. Very little 'flash' and the print lines are not very obvious. A bit of work with a soft sanding block has gotten rid of most of the print lines, probably an hour or so of work per unit. I'm finding light pressure and sandinf along the grain rather than across it is giving better results. 

 

EDIT to add that this is one of the "rejected" test prints so has a few minor imperfections. I bought one at full price but when I saw these being advertised for much less it seemed a good way to get a second one, and have one to practise on without worrying about damaging an expensive kit.

 

The next jobs will be to join the two halves, I think I will look at ordering some brass section, either square or L shaped, to run the full length of each coach to ensure it is as stiff and square as possible. 

 

In the meantime, I didn't have any grey primer to hand so used some yellow to give one end a quick blast just to check how much more work might be needed and whether the print lines were still visible. From more that a foot away it looks fine, close up still needs a little work.

 

I touched in the windscreen and lights in with a black marker pen to give me and others on here a bit of an idea of how it looks, it can be hard to tell sometimes in plain grey. Its looks a bit rough, but thats more because its not a proper finish rather than the model itself:

 

 

 

 

You can still see print lines in the black area around the destination and below the windscreen, I hadn't touched that area, which it about the worst area for lines - and even then not particularly bad. Overall I'm pretty happy so far.

Edited August 19, 2020 by JDW
Formatting

[BusDriverMan]

Looking really good!

 

Is that a little chunk missing from the top of the destination display mounting? How are you planning to glaze the cab front? The horizontal line where the offside panel is bonded to the destination box is quite distinctive - worth painting a stripe directly onto the inner side of that glazing panel?

 

 

[JDW]

18 minutes ago, BusDriverMan said:

Looking really good!

 

Is that a little chunk missing from the top of the destination display mounting? How are you planning to glaze the cab front? The horizontal line where the offside panel is bonded to the destination box is quite distinctive - worth painting a stripe directly onto the inner side of that glazing panel?

 

 

 

It is, and I've amended my post above to add that this is a test print so has a couple of imperfections including, as you say, a small chunk missing from the destinaton screen, though once behind glazing I don't think it will be very visible. Especially since the pics above are much larger on most people's screens than the model itself, so it is much more noticeable here than looking at it on my desk.

 

I don't know about glazing yet, it will no doubt take the form of clear plastic from some source or other but that's about as much thought as I've given to it so far. 

[cheesysmith]

NOOO, stop it, these pictures are making me want one and I have enough projects on the go already.

[JDW]

38 minutes ago, cheesysmith said:

NOOO, stop it, these pictures are making me want one and I have enough projects on the go already.

 

Oh, sorry. It's lucky I don't have any more pictures of progress other than these late night pics of the joint:

 

 

 

I reckon in should smooth out okay. I think I might look at adjusting the door heights by removing the rain strip and adding a new one a couple of mm higher. Looking at the livery lines on a GMPTE unit, it looks like the dark grey stripe at the top would end up above the rain strip on the model instead of below. 

[KDG]

They look good. Do you have a scheme to power your unit?

[JDW]

2 hours ago, KDG said:

They look good. Do you have a scheme to power your unit?

 

I don't. Thoughts so far include a Bachmann 158/166/170 chassis, or a power bogie from a Hornby 156 (possibly two, but it should be light enough for 1 I think). I want to keep costs down so the latter would be the cheapest. 

[JDW]

Still debating the door height so I decided to do some 3D doodling with a black and red marker pen. I think it confirms my impression that the window line is just a tad low, and that the rainstrips above the doors are too. Looking at the proportions of the colours, and comparing to my 3D doodle, I think I will look at moving the rain strips up and extending the doors. In my doodle below the dark grey runs above the top of the door/rain strip, on the real thing it is across the top of the door. 

The red stripe will cut across the cab window but any lower and there won't be enough dark grey. 

Overall though, it still looks like a 323, the error isn't major and it should still look fine when finished. Certainly better than I could do from scratch!

 

Edited August 14, 2020 by JDW
Correction

[Jack374]

That 323 looks fantastic JDW, excellent job so far. Adding a bit of pen to colour it certainly makes a difference in showing what it’ll look like. Looking forward to seeing the end result!

 

Jack.

[JDW]

Thanks @Jack374, I don't think it'll reach the calibre of your modelling, but I think it will turn out OK. It is surprising what a difference the pen makes, I'm just glad it wasn't Northern purple or Centro green that I needed!

[JDW]

No pictures but I've filed off the rain strip above each door, to move them up by about 2mm. I've ordered some 0.5mm x 0.5mm plastic strip to add the new ones, and using the tip of a razor saw held carefully like a pen (a knife blade was too thin, the saw blade matched the door lines already there), I extended the door lines upwards. The joints between each half has been filled and smoothed, a trip to Halfords will be needed for some more primer before I can do much more.

 

The only other job to do before that is fill the recesses above the bogies using plasticard, the bottom of the body as far as I can see should be straight, roughly in line with the bottom of the doors as in this image: 

https://www.philt.org.uk/UKModernRail/1995-2005/i-THPxn3f/A 

[JDW]

It would be, do the run in pairs? They're not a type I see often, being the wrong side of the Pennines. 

 

I'm still undecided whether I should so two in GMPTE colours or one each in GMPTE and Centro. I like the Centro colours better I think, but in terms of painting, the GMPTE will be easier as most of the colours are available as aerosols. I'm not sure the two liveries would ever have been seen side by side, so if ever I built a layout for them, having two GMPTE ones would make more sense, but as it is they're more likely going to be display models.

 

I'll probably finish one before I start the other. Hopefully by the time I've finished the two sets of bodies, the remained of the parts (window frames, underframe equipment etc) should be available.

 

I've been sidetracked today back to DMUs though, and cracking on with finishing the 156 conversions with the last pair in Provincial livery, as well as remembering to take some pictures as they will feature in a future issue of DEMU's Update magazine. On top of that, thanks to a fellow member here, a second white and lilac Northern 156 has arrived, which is getting a Hurst underframe kit to match the first.

 

Once that is done, one of them will have the white and lilac swapped around. I figured it was easier to start off with a unit in a similar livery, especially since the bluey-greyish band between the two looks an awkward colour to mix, so I can mask it off and just repaint the main body colours. That's the plan anyway, it might not work that way!

Edited August 16, 2020 by JDW

[JDW]

Not much visible progress but I'm well on my way to a set of finished bodyshells for the 323. Today I squared off the cut-out above the bogies and filled with a piece of plastic strip (1.5mm square section I think, for anyone following suit, but any similar size would do). I was careful to leave the small protrusion (damper mount?) intact, and used plenty of superglue in the hope it would ooze out and fill some of the gaps.

 

 

It was relatively successful so after a light pass with some filler, I was able to gently file it back flush to the bodyside until there was just a smooth white rectangle.

 

While I had the filler out I put a little in the original door top lines, and immediately used the back of a knife blade to remove it from the vertical grooves. Once dry and smooth I used some 0.5x0.5mm plastic strip to add new gutters above the doors. I'd like to say I made a template and did it exactly so many milimetres above the original but in reality I lined them up by eye about 2mm higher, about as high as I could without going into the curve of the roof. They are roughly in line with the top of the windscreen, as on the real thing.

 

 

The centre coach is now ready for undercoat, the outer coaches still need the rain strips adding. The work to smooth the sides has meant that the orange door unlocked lights have lost a lot of their definition as have the door buttons, hopefully I'll be able to scribe the latter back in. The side destination screens on the driving cars straddle the joint between the two halves, so were always going to be a victim of filling and filing the joint. I'm not sure how I'll replace them yet but wonder if a small rectangle of clear plastic with black painted border, stuck on after painting, might work. 

 

And yes, just behind it in the pictures above is the Northern 156 being fitted with the last of my stash of Hurst detailing kits, which is almost complete apart from painting.

 

[JDW]

Minor disaster du jour:

 

To straighten the bowed bodysides I did the obvious thing, I used hot water to soften it. I used elastic bands to hold two stout plastic tube sections along the lower bodysides, before immersing in the hot (not boiling) water.

 

I then got distracted by work and an hour later had this:

 

 

At least we know it works! Unfortunately although definitely narrower it has also put a slight twist in it, so it is now sat cooling down with heavy weights inside and out to hopefully straighten and re-shape it. I wanted it a little narrow so it would spring over a chassis, but not quite that narrow! 

 

So, lesson du jour: don't leave it in hot water too long!

[JDW]

No pics as not much has changed visually. Thankfully no lasting damage and it has been straightened out again, though I am finding the plastic quite brittle in a couple of places where a little bit too much pressure while working has caused it to crack from the bottom of the body up to a window opening. No major problem but something to be aware of. It is still a bit wavy but is now roughly the same width as a Hornby class 156 (I've no idea of the exact widths of either, but that's what I had to hand to compare with!)

 

All the remaining gutters over the doors have been added, so all that is needed now is a dunk in hot water to soften and straighen, as well as to clean off the dust from filing and sanding, and it's ready for undercoat. 

 

I expect that it will take a while before any of the other components are available - which is fine, I still have the second to build! - so I'm not going to try and build or source a chassis and motor for it until I have those parts in hand, so I know what I'm working with and how everything fits together. Despite my worries over delivery, and the fears of some over on the Class 323 thread, I think the its so far is fine. It has (in my view) a few minor inaccuracies but I couldn't have scratchbuilt a better one, and it has been a simple and relatively easy task to make amendments to my satisfaction. The quality and resoluion of the print seems good, I have found no issues there.

 

My only real issue so far has been the warping which I would think could have been designed out by printing it with a couple of braces across the bottom at the 'open' end of each half and behind the doors, either permanent or temporary to be removed during build to allow a floor to be fitted in one piece. Never having 3D-printed anything myself though, I wouldn't like to say "he should have done x or y" as it may not be possible, or there may be other reason's it is like it is, or indeed doing that may have caused a different problem. The brittleness is the type of plastic in general, especially as the sides are not excessively thick. Would I recommend it? Yes. Anyone who has the skills to assemble overhead wires shouldn't find it too hard a challenge!

 

Question du jour: Does anyone know of a suitable pantograph, and does anyone have any decent pictures of the roof around that area? I'm not bothered about it being exactly the right design, so long as it is close enough (no diamond-shaped EM1 types please!) to look right.

[Jack374]

2 hours ago, JDW said:

Question du jour: Does anyone know of a suitable pantograph, and does anyone have any decent pictures of the roof around that area? I'm not bothered about it being exactly the right design, so long as it is close enough (no diamond-shaped EM1 types please!) to look right.

Sorry to see the warped body JDW, hopefully fully recoverable with no damage.

 

Regarding pans, I’d maybe fire off an email to Bachmann spares about their class 90 pan, as I’ve heard they’re available and would look correct I think on a 323.

 

Jack.

[Southwich]

The 323 is looking good so far! The pan looks to be a Brecknell Willis High Speed, pic from Flickr:

 

 

I’m doing a model of mentor which also has the same pantograph. I sourced a spare one from Bachmann for their 90 for £19 including postage. I just rang them up and it arrived in a few days. Contact details are here: http://service.Bachmann.co.uk

 

Hopefully that helps - keep up the good work!

Kind regards,

 

Will

Edited August 21, 2020 by Southwich
Typo

[JDW]

Thanks to those who suggested pantographs, I'll contact Bachmann when I'm closer to needing one. 

 

In the meantime, some primer showed a good few places where more work was needed, mainly around the joints. 

 

I've had a couple of places where the bodyside cracked (my fault!) and following a comment elsewhere on the forums I'm going to look at UV resin as a way of repairing rather than the superglue and plastic strip behind the joint I used previously.

 

Following their more careful hot water treatment coaches 2 and 3 are looking straighter but might need a second dunking.

 

The only other progress I've made is to realise that the strengthening plates below the doors are too long and need to be shorter to clear the bogies:

 

 

Obviously thats not the right bogie, its (unsurprisingly!) from a Hornby 156, which has tread brakes that foul the faring, but its a similar shape/size. The pivot is pretty much centralised under the saloon window.

[JDW]

And for something different...

 

 

...still very much work in progress, especially as the shade of lilac I chose has come out a lot too pink, it should be much more bluey, so an alternative is on its way (and at £21.95 including VAT and shipping I hope this one is right!). 

[JDW]

Not much to report, the weather hasn't been good enough to re-do the purple on the 156 but I did manage to brush paint around the windscreens in black. 

Next to the original Hornby version the lilac is clearly too pink, but the more I look the more I feel a need to re-do Hornby's purple which looks too dark! It should be much lighter than the blue doors. Gotta draw a line somewhere though. That can be a project for another day...