S7 scratch building

[Signalman Rich]

Jol

Thanks for the links on the Warwickshire railways site. What a wonderful resource!  The photos of N&S as well as the ones of Flecknoe ( lnwr flek1324b) shows the buildings that are very similar to the ones at Pentraeth. The Pentraeth, Rhyd-y-saint, and Ceint buildings in the photos in BRJ are very similar to the ones at Napton & Stockton although Pentraeth was a mix of buildings as in the photo I referenced above. The one at Ceint was painted in a very dark brown (using the info on paint colours below the 1324b photo, while fencing was the buff colour. Red Wharf Bay Station was also a long slim building made on the same lines as N&S but the planking was horizontal rather than vertical, with quite wide planks. The lower section below the windows was a lighter shade of brown and the upper level from the bottom of the windows was the cream/buff colour.

 

The Red Wharf Bay station is quite like the Gravelly Hill station building in that it used the horizontal planking, but GH has wider sliding doors and a short awning all along the front. RWB has single doors and individual canopies above about the width of the door.

 

Thank you for your helpful input on LNWR station design. The BRJ article said that the RWB branch was completed 1908/9 while the buildings at N&S were opened in 1895. I wonder how much earlier the standardized building design began to be used? Given the early standardization of loco production it seems reasonable to think that the buildings with modules must have been fairly early.

 

Mike,

Apologies for taking your wonderful builds off at a tangent, but hopefully it will provide some food for thought for when you start your layout.

 

Best wishes

Rich

[airnimal]

Rich, I don't mind the topic going on to other railway related parts. 

I went in to the workshop this morning intending to do some more on the ballast wagons when I had I horrible feeling that I had made  an almighty mistake on the loco coal wagons that were sat next to them.

I had fitted all 3 of these wagons with internal side knees as on the Dia 4 open wagons. Quickly I got all the wagon books out only to discover that they may not have had these side knees at all, only coach bolts. 

Is too late to do anything about the ones already made but the dumb buffered example still in the building stage will be alright. The 3 already built will have to loaded with some fine Staffordshire loco coal to cover my mistake.

[Tricky]

Well, I don't know much about side knees and coach bolts. What I do know is there's nowt wrong with your painting!

[Compound2632]

My interpretation of the drawings reproduced in LNWR Wagons is that wagons with fixed sides, such as the D64 loco coal wagons and the D1 and D2 opens, had external side knees with, as you say, coach bolts heads on the inside, whereas wagons with centre doors such as the D4/D9 opens had the more conventional arrangement of inside knees and a easher plate for the nuts on the outside.

[airnimal]

Compound2632,

 

I have to agree with you about iron work on these LNWR wagons, it's just a pity I didn't notice last year when I was building them.

Mike

[Signalman Rich]

Mike,

Your attention to detail is an inspiration and the painting and inscribed planking of the inside of the wagon is subtle and 'real.' I hope you don't mind an addendum to the comments about wooden standardized buildings.

 

Nick and Jol,

Last night, while doing some quiet bed-time reading of some old HMRS Journals, given to me by a friend,  I came across this quote by Philip Millard from his research into LNWR Minute books which were/are held at the Public Records Office, Kew. (HMRS Journal Vol 10 No 4  p95  Oct-Dec 1979). It does seem to suggest F W Webb as the source of the design of standardized buildings even if it was the drawing office that produced the plans.

 

"Wooden Huts

July 1880.  " Mr Webb showed plans of a new cabin which would be far superior and cost less in repairs than  the old carriage bodies used generally for the purpose." In the following month it was ordered that these new standard cabins should be supplied in the future, and that Mr Bore was to dispose of the old carriage bodies which will no longer be used as cabins.  Until this date old carriage bodies had been supplied to places throughout the system for use as mess-rooms, stores, lamp rooms and offices, but thereafter the standard wooden huts were used.  These were supplied in three sizes,  8ft x 8ft,  16 ft x 8ft, and  24ft x 8ft and were also widely used as booking offices and waiting shelters" 

 

Hope this is useful.

Best wishes

Rich

 

[Jol Wilkinson]

3 hours ago, Signalman Rich said:

Mike,

Your attention to detail is an inspiration and the painting and inscribed planking of the inside of the wagon is subtle and 'real.' I hope you don't mind an addendum to the comments about wooden standardized buildings.

 

Nick and Jol,

Last night, while doing some quiet bed-time reading of some old HMRS Journals, given to me by a friend,  I came across this quote by Philip Millard from his research into LNWR Minute books which were/are held at the Public Records Office, Kew. (HMRS Journal Vol 10 No 4  p95  Oct-Dec 1979). It does seem to suggest F W Webb as the source of the design of standardized buildings even if it was the drawing office that produced the plans.

 

"Wooden Huts

July 1880.  " Mr Webb showed plans of a new cabin which would be far superior and cost less in repairs than  the old carriage bodies used generally for the purpose." In the following month it was ordered that these new standard cabins should be supplied in the future, and that Mr Bore was to dispose of the old carriage bodies which will no longer be used as cabins.  Until this date old carriage bodies had been supplied to places throughout the system for use as mess-rooms, stores, lamp rooms and offices, but thereafter the standard wooden huts were used.  These were supplied in three sizes,  8ft x 8ft,  16 ft x 8ft, and  24ft x 8ft and were also widely used as booking offices and waiting shelters" 

 

Hope this is useful.

Best wishes

Rich

 

Rich,

 

Philip is, as ever, a wonderful source of information on LNWR carriages and related topics.

 

While FWW seems to get the limelight, Bore as Carriage Superintendent and in charge of Wolverton Carriage Works, would seem the person most likely to have been responsible for design and construction of the smaller wooden buildings, even if Webb was the one to show off the drawings as CME.

 

I'd still like to know the story behind the larger "pre-fab" buildings. Perhaps this does point to Wolverton being involved, perhaps in producing the components for assembly on site.

 

Jol

[Signalman Rich]

Jol,

Thanks for your reply. I wondered who Mr Bore was. I should have thought to check my copy of "The Trainmakers - the story of Wolverton Works" by Bill West, in case there was any information.  ( I just did. He was Carriage Superintendant  from 1865 -1886). There is no mention of any building, pre-fab or otherwise that I have found yet in Mr West's book. Although there is a plan inside the front cover from 1906  it shows a  Timber gantry, Timber Hoist, Timber stores and Timber drying shed, but nothing about buildings I am afraid - so the search will have to go on.

Best wishes

Rich

[Compound2632]

6 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

While FWW seems to get the limelight, Bore as Carriage Superintendent and in charge of Wolverton Carriage Works, would seem the person most likely to have been responsible for design and construction of the smaller wooden buildings, even if Webb was the one to show off the drawings as CME.

 

As I understand it, Webb was appointed to the position of Locomotive Superintendent but this was soon changed to Chief Mechanical Engineer - possibly the first such on a British railway? Did this involve a genuine enlargement of responsibility, i.e. the Carriage (& Wagon) Superintendent(s)(?) answering to Webb rather than to the relevant committee of the Directors?

[airnimal]

Not at the workbench at present but I would like to show some superb weathering from a friends stock.

All are American of course but rust is the same the world over and ageless. 

 

 

Edited February 15, 2019 by airnimal
Post the same photo twice

[Signalman Rich]

Thanks for posting these superb photos. Like rust, brilliantly observed modelling is brilliant the world over. Truly exceptional and inspirational.

Best wishes

Rich

[airnimal]

A couple more photographs from my friends layout. Even through I model a different railway and time, good modelling always wins me over. 

[Poggy1165]

Good example of how good modelling transcends all else. When people say "there's nothing for me" in a magazine or an exhibition, they are generally wrong because if the modelling is quality or makes use of new techniques there is usually something to be learned from it. 

[airnimal]

Well the decorating at my daughter's house is now done and I have to return home. I will miss my daughter and the sunshine and cycling without getting wet but I will be able to get back to the workbench and see my other half and children.

[Nickey Line]

Nice bicycle...

 

 

Snap!

Well, close anyway.

[Caley Jim]

Am I right in thinking that is the CBD of Perth (WA) I see in the background of the bike shot? 

 

Jim 

[airnimal]

Jim,  yes that is Perth in WA. My middle daughter lives there just outside in Mount Claremont. 

I have been to help her in her new house as well as seeing some railway stuff.  The photo of the signal box about the tracks is taken at Mount Claremont station on the line to Freemantle.

 

Nickel Line,  my bike was as clean as yours many years ago but after buying it in 2006 it has been to more than 10 countries. I did think about having it repainted but not all the places I go are as clean as Austraila. 

 

While i was away my good friend has bought a Connisseur bogie brick wagon which he wants me to build for him ?

I don't know when I will get the time to build this as my better half want me to decorate all the down stairs rooms. 

My planned start for a layout looks to be getting pushed back even further.  

Edited March 10, 2019 by airnimal
Miss spelling

[Nickey Line]

4 hours ago, airnimal said:

Nickel Line,  my bike was as clean as yours many years ago but after buying it in 2006 it has been to more than 10 countries.

 

Looks can be deceptive. Mine is actually older than yours, 2004, but has been to fewer countries, but some multiple times. I've worn the rims out twice in that time...

 

I've not posted on here in relation to your work, as I can't hope to match your marvellous creations. I mostly kit build in 7 and 4mm with some scratch-built detail. I like to keep an eye on your progress for inspiration!

 

That bogie brick kit apparently has a small novel by way of instructions! 

[airnimal]

Well it's time I got back to the workbench after all the family duties. 

Decided to start to clear my workshop because I have put off for too long the start of a layout. In the clear out I found a LNWR one plank body doing nothing in a box, so I have put some wheels on it and it can now join the queue of wagons awaiting to be finished.

I also made a new pattern for the brake levers for the ballast wagons.

I just need to take it to Dave at JPL models to mill me a couple from 22 thou brass or nickel.

[airnimal]

Quote

 

I have started to clear my workshop ready to start my small diorama type layout.  It's amazing how much stuff we collect that we find hard to part with. If I place the layout at a height of 4' high I will have a space of 14' long by 3' tapering to 1' 6" at one end. So basically a small shunting plank. 

I have bought a small glass cabinet to store and display the models so far built or bought and the layout will be placed above this along with space for a couple of bikes underneath. 

I now need a track plan something along the lines of Arun Quay built by Gordon Gravett. The problems I have that in S7 the length of the points will be nearly double that of the layout built by Gordon in finescale.

Anyway the room has nearly been emptied ready to make a start. 

Another new addition came today in the form of one of  Minerva's  Manning  Wardle saddle tanks which will need converting to S7. I will take it to my friends layout later to give a shake down to check everthing works as it should, but I don't think I will have any worries as it looks very well made. 

[Tricky]

Great news on getting your head around a layout. Really looking forward to seeing how it takes shape. 

[airnimal]

Tricky,  thanks for the vote of confidence in my ability, I wish I had as much in myself as you do. 

Laying out a couple of templates on the floor along side a rule gives a clue on how little room I have for a S7 layout. A B10 turnout is 24" long with a B7 at 21". So I think B7 is going to be the largest size I am going to use. Laying out my chopper tank and 6 wagons on the floor  works out at 38". 

Some people have the vision of what they want from a railway but I have never been blessed with that skill.

 

 

[Jol Wilkinson]

Small railway facilities would probably use shorter points than mainline layouts. A B6 or possibly even as small as an A5.

 

Could you use something smaller to "gain" space?

[Tricky]

And don’t forget Y turnouts are shorter as well. My ‘Monks Gate’ has only a cross-over (albeit shorter finescale B7 I think) Most of the manoeuvres being carried out using a traverser at one end and a sector plate at the other. 

Do not despair- it is possible!!

[Compound2632]

Surely a Y is simply a standard turnout curved, i.e. the key feature is the crossing angle?