S7 scratch building

[Western Star]

12 hours ago, magmouse said:

 

My Slaters 7mm fine-scale wheels have parallel bearings - are the S7 ones different?

Slater's 7mm coach and wagon wheels use the same axle for the FS wheelsets as for the S7 versions; the S7 wheels have a boss to the rear face of the wheel and that boss provides the correct B2B for a S7 wheelset.

 

If a 7mm wheelset has parallel journals without pin-points then, I believe, the wheelset is not from Slater's Plastikard (or someone has cut the pin-point off of the axle end).

Edited November 8, 2022 by Western Star

[magmouse]

21 minutes ago, Western Star said:

Slater's 7mm coach and wagon wheels use the same axle for the FS wheelsets as for the S7 versions; the S7 wheels have a boss to the rear face of the wheel and that boss provides the correct B2B for a S7 wheelset.

 

If a 7mm wheelset has parallel journals without pin-points then, I believe, the wheelset is not from Slater's Plastikard (or someone has cut the pin-point off of the axle end).

I think we have a terminology issue…

 

I am using the term ‘pinpoint’ to refer to bearings with conical axle-ends running in conical bearings - pretty much standard in 4mm scale. This contrasts with. Slaters, Peco and other 7mm scale wheel sets, where the end of the axle is reduced in diameter, running in a bearing with parallel sides, not conical. We are I think all saying the same thing with different terms.

 

Nick

[airnimal]

I use the S7 wagon wheels from Slaters on all my wagons. I do modify them by trimming out the excess plastic between the spokes to make them look more worn and in service. Some of my coaches have wheels by Peartree as well as some from Slaters.  As Graham has said the Slaters wheels use the same axles as the finescale ones but the S7 ones have a boss on the back to increase the back to back. 

 

I have made a mistake on my wagon with the lettering because I was excited to find some tranfers with similar wording, but I should have taken more care. The photograph has the wording TO BE RETURNED TO LIVERPOOL and not RETURN  TO LIVERPOOL.  What to do now ?  I think I will claim rule No 1 and leave it as it is and claim it was repainted later with a different painter. 

[Western Star]

Mike's photo shows that the Slater's wheelsets have pin-points to the axles.

 

Parkside used to provide Slater's wheels if one wanted S7 wheels with their kits.  I believe that Peco supply Slater's wheels for their 7mm kits.

[Northroader]

“To be” or not “to be”, that is the question.

[Compound2632]

40 minutes ago, Western Star said:

Mike's photo shows that the Slater's wheelsets have pin-points to the axles.

 

But running in top-hat (i.e. parallel) bearings, so the pin-pointedness serves no purpose, at least as Mike is using them. But maybe in Slaters kits as supplied they run in conical bearings?

[Western Star]

4 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

But running in top-hat (i.e. parallel) bearings...

Ah, but...

 

What if the "top hat" bearing is machined so that there is a "cone" at the outer end of the bore of the bearing.  Although I might have to find a guessing stick to check, the parallel portion of the hole in the bearing is a greater diameter than the diameter of the parallel portion of the Slater's axle journal.

 

......tricky things these 7mm modellers.

Edited November 8, 2022 by Western Star

[Compound2632]

14 minutes ago, Western Star said:

......tricky things these 7mm modellers.

 

I think I now understand.

[Simond]

I am suspicious and a little cynical.  I reckon the Slaters' pointy axle ends are so the axle can run in an ordinary drilled hole, without the corners rubbing on the end of the hole.  Let us not forget that the bearing has to support the axle radially, to hold the vehicle up, but also has to prevent side play.  The pointy end in a roughly pointy hole will do the latter with very much less friction than the flange of the bearing pressing on the hub of the wheel.

 

I do not believe that they are intended to be used as a pin-point bearing in eg an N gauge wheelset/vehicle, and I doubt than any model vehicle with suspension has the necessary side control of the bearings to make it possible.

 

 

Edited November 8, 2022 by Simond

[airnimal]

My wagons generally run in my own W-irons that have some sideways movement available so I can limit the side play. I am not sure if this is a benefit for the pin point axles using Slaters standard bearings or not but as they appear to run very well. I an unlikely to have any wear issues because of the limited amount of running they ever get or likely to get in my lifetime. 

 

I have added the hooks under the top plank and put the running numbers on the ends. Trying to get individual letters spaced out even and level is not that easy. I don't have the Timber Wagon letters for now so this is as far as I can go. 

 

 

[hayfield]

Stunning piece of modelling

[airnimal]

Hayfield , thank you for words of praise which is always appreciated. 

 

I won't bore people with a blow by blow account of my latest bit of plastic bashing  which is another early hopper wagon from the same photograph in Oldham's Library of Clegg St goods yard. I will not model any interior detail because this one has a tarpaulin over the top half covering some of the lettering. 

 

I also intend to model one of the LNWR Dia 1 but as a shunters runner wagon because there is a photograph of one in Vol 3 of Eddie Johnson's Manchester to Crewe book taken in the yard at Stockport.  

 

[airnimal]

The brakegear has been cobbled together with bits of old etch parts from my scrap bin. I have started to put all the square bolts on. This is the third Buxton Lime wagon I have made and there maybe more because from the same set of photographs is another one from The Millers Dale and Olham Lime Co.

[airnimal]

I have finished adding the details to this build so that it just needs painting.  The tarpaulin will come half down to the middle of the lettering.

I am not sure when I will get around to this because we are having 2 of our grandsons this weekend to stay. I was at the Hospital yesterday having my check up which went O.K and it was agreed with the Doctor that the check ups will now be extended to 6 months instead of 3. I am not sure if that was on my mind yesterday because I posted a reply to Dave Hunt in the wrong place. I will never get the hang of this  technology business.  My wife and daughters want me to have a smart phone for Christmas but I am trying to put of having one as long as I can. Let's face it I can make a mess with this little machine without another one doing my mind in. 

[Western Star]

1 hour ago, airnimal said:

 My wife and daughters want me to have a smart phone for Christmas but I am trying to put of having one as long as I can. Let's face it I can make a mess with this little machine without another one doing my mind in.

Mike, keep on putting off!

 

 

I do not have a mobile telephone and the family continue to nag me about how useful they are...  really?  I have a landline...  a laptop...  television and sky... what else could I want?  Social media...?  just so I can read about corrupt politics, lost keys, village vandals, where to photograph the "best" bits of nature - no way, just give me a bucket of clean sand each and every day.

 

Peter does not even let me hold his mobile when he wants to show a picture to me, he reckons that I can wreck a smart 'phone just by asking "how do I....?"

 

Same thing with Sat Navs, why follow directions from a squark box just so that you can avoid one congestion to arrive at another delay (because everyone gets similar directions).  Much rather go from A to B by following instinct and "long cuts" taking in village coffee shops.

 

regards, Graham

Edited November 18, 2022 by Western Star

[airnimal]

I tried to paint my wagon yesterday with the same paint I used on the Joel Carrington hopper. Unfortunately the spray can out all blotchy. I tried to clean the the nozzle with thinners and a bit of wire but it didn't get any better, perhaps the weather was to cold. So this morning I went early to Halfords and bought a can of Ford Arum White which is slightly paler and gloss. I sprayed it outside before rushing in and drying it with a hairdryer. Not the best way to do but I don't have the luxury of an indoors spray booth. I have rubbed it down a little with a fine polishing cloth which has taken the edge off it. With a bit of weathering and matt varnish later it may not be to bad. 

I have put the brass parts in Carrs Metal Black and made a jig to bend all the phosphor bronze springs to the same length. 

 

Anyway the grandsons will be here shortly which will prevent any more work till late on Sunday.  They have been here already but have gone to a Birthday party after football and swimming. 

[airnimal]

I am not sure if I am going to continue trying to letter this wagon or simple scrap it. Building it is the easy part but trying to finish the paint and lettering to a good standard is is without doubt what makes a good model. The letters would only be half letters because the photograph I am working from has a tarpaulin covering 50% of the lettering.

If only I was wealthy enough to farm out the finishing of my models,  my life would be far simpler. 

[Simond]

Michael,

 

please don’t scrap it.  
 

You obviously spent many hours honing your wagon building skills, surely a few goes at painting is better than throwing away the fruits of your labours?

[Caley Jim]

If my lettering was half as good as yours, Mike, I'd be delighted! 😁 

 

Jim 

[airnimal]

Simon, I understand what you say but I see in a different light. I would much rather start again because after a few attempts at the lettering the basic structure starts to loose it's crispness.  After rubbing down the paintwork a few times my heart goes out of it. It is probably a silly attitude but if it doesn't please me then it is never going to improve. 

I will try and dunk it in something to try and take it back to the unpainted carcass along with another of my failed attempts. If that is successful I can always paint them in a basic colour and cover them with large tarpaulins.  While I am having a cull I may as well strip out the wheels and buffers of a couple of wagons that also don't come up to scratch. I am sure there are lots of people who would commission some tranfers to make life easier or find another way using technology to make better models but I unfortunately am stuck in the 1950's. I have nothing but admiration for all the people with 3D printers and lazer cutting machines but I have always been a slow learner. At my age I don't think I am ever going to improve.  This trait runs in the family with only my younger sister living in the modern world, the rest of the family are like myself.  

 

[Schooner]

If it makes you happy - process or result - it's right. If it doesn't, pick the solution which pleases you best. Everything else can go hang :)

 

Schooner (inveterate bouncer-off technology which threatens to make life 'more convenient)

[NeilHB]

Mike, I use Dettol for stripping paint, so that may be an option explore if you do want to strip the current project back to basics. Worth testing on a small piece though as sometimes it can react oddly to some types of paint. 

 

I see no problem with your wagons that didn't come up to scratch, I'd be very happy if my projects looked as good as yours! 

[airnimal]

Thank you to everyone for their input. I have decided not to continue with the last couple wagons due to my poor ability to letter them to my satisfaction.  I have stripped out all the parts that can be reused for another day. 

 

So looking around for something else to model I would like a L&Y brake van to go with my pug and the 3 wagons I made a few years ago. I built one of Danny Pinock's etched kits nearly 40 years ago for one of these vans  but in finescale.  I am not confident that this will get built but I dont have anything else on the go at present and I don't fancy finishing some of the wagon that need finishing. That's probably not the right attitude to start with but I struggle in winter with the cold and grey days. 

So I have dug out a set of castings for the axleboxes with the wrong springs and a set of my own castings from my LNWR brake van kit that I can combine together that look will hopefully be very close to the prototype. 

Looking at the photographs and drawing I am wondering if I should make the veranda footstep that goes completely around the body from brass or nickel for strength. I am not sure of the thickness of this footboard because I have only the Vol 2 of the wagon book to work from and not a works drawing. 

It would have to take a mans weight so it must have been a couple of inches thick. I may cut a complete piece out of 40 thou and see what that looks like before making a decision. 

[swampy]

43 minutes ago, airnimal said:

Looking at the photographs and drawing I am wondering if I should make the veranda footstep that goes completely around the body from brass or nickel for strength. I am not sure of the thickness of this footboard because I have only the Vol 2 of the wagon book to work from and not a works drawing. 

It would have to take a mans weight so it must have been a couple of inches thick. I may cut a complete piece out of 40 thou and see what that looks like before making a decision. 

 

Mike , there is a detailed GA drawing no 1829 of the Diagram 21 brake van in the "Virtual Museum" on the LYRS website. The end elevation shows the lower footsteps as 1 and 3/8" thick; the upper veranda step looks to be the same , drawn about half the size of the 3" floorboards.

 

HTH

 

Pete   

[airnimal]

Pete, thank you for the information about  the "Virtual  Museum " on the LYRS website. I wasn't aware of that. 

I am hoping to use a Exactoscale etched underframe for the running part for this build but with modification to the W-irons.  The shape needs the outside edge closing in to make a smaller opening if that makes sense.  I have cut off the first one to see if this is a runner or not and the signs are hopeful so I thing I will continue.  I will have to remember that I have soldered in new parts when I come to make and attach the bottom securing bar that I don't unsoldered all my previously work. 

 

I checked yesterday that the Cross Country trains are running after today's strike and I was assured that the trains will be running on time in the morning.  If that is the case I will probably make an attempt to visit Warley show at the N.E.C. I could do with stocking up on a few things.