Help me Choose my Layout Plan

[DCB]

14 feet is not that long when you have to have a fiddle yard.

 

I did a bit of lateral thinking and stole an idea from Borchester for a headshunt fiddle yard and adapted it .

 

MO train arrives in fiddle and sets back into loops.   Or Train arrives in fiddle uncouples loco and loco from loops pulls train into loop.

 

Departing either loco propels train from loop to headshunt, or there is a kick back siding so a shunting loco can haul train back clear of points and retreat to siding, then train loco propels ot the last bit so it too clears points.  Depends if you use Hornby Dublo Peco and Kadee  couplings which allow propelling or tension locks which by and large dont!

 

Fiddling would be done on the single line headshunt bit which sticks out

[The Johnster]

I think the only locos left untouched by black were the express passenger trains on the GWR.  I believe I read that somewhere.  Also, I want to say I have seen plenty of photos from WWII of Southern rail engines on GWR lines.

 

Also, nice layout

 

Actually, GWR most definitely had S15s.

 

Locomotives loaned during World War II were given GWR power class letters, in order to avoid confusion with different systems used by the lending railway. For example, the Southern Railway (SR) also used letters, but with A representing the highest power; so when the SR loaned some S15 class 4-6-0s to the GWR, which were power class A on the SR, they were placed in power class D by the GWR;^[8][3] similarly, the London, Midland and Scottish Railway loaned some 2-8-0 locomotives of their power class 8F, which were given GWR power class E.^[3]

 

USATC also used 0-6-0 tanks, the type bought later by the Southern, at the South Wales ports for shunting.  From 1943 when the Americans got into full war production mode, many American locos were brought in through Cardiff Docks, which had a big floating crane capable of lifting them off the ships' decks, and S160s were stored at Ebbw Junction, Newport before being brought into use.  The centre cab diesels also came in through Cardiff.  

 

The GW painted all locos black from 1942 until the end of the war, with plain G W R initiials, except Castles and Kings, which retained green, sometimes unlined, and G crest W insignia.  Locos with side cab windows had them plated over as part of the blackout precautions.  Coaches painted in this period were turned out in plain brown with a single red line at waist level.  'Foreign' locos appeared, notably Stanier 8Fs, some of which were built at Swindon, and also the Riddles War Department 'Austerity' 2-8-0s; these, and the S160s, disappeared fairly rapidly overseas after the Normandy landings.  Some GWR sheds were loaned LNER J25 0-6-0s to replace Dean Goods' that went to France early in the war with the expeditionary force and were trapped by the Germans' advance in May 1940.

 

In early 1945, an LNER B12 4-6-0 turned up tender first on the Coryton branch in the Cardiff suburbs, having worked a hospital train from Harwich; the train originated in Holland and worked throughout via the train ferry with wounded on board, allocated to Whitchurch Hospital.  The B12 was used as it was fitted with Westinghouse air brakes, as was the ex GER stock.  

 

As an 'anything's possible' excuse, wartime based model railways have a lot to offer, as well as the chance to show off your weathering and dirtying skills.  Expresses were diverted because of bomb damage, freight trains took days to reach their destinations, trains were always crowded, passengers never knew where they were because the station nameboards had been removed to confuse fifth columnists (it certainly confused everyone else), troop specials were common, and the build up of freight all over the country ultimately headed for the south coast ports to support the Normandy landings was phenomenal; everything was working flat out!

[Seanem44]

Alright gents.  I have retooled the "Minehead" plan based on recommendations.  What do you think?  I will use all flex track, this just used some set track for ease of operation.  Thanks.

 

[Jeff Smith]

I would extend the kick-back siding, parallel to the main line, to be at least the length of the longest goods siding to allow shunting operations off the main line.

[Seanem44]

I would extend the kick-back siding, parallel to the main line, to be at least the length of the longest goods siding to allow shunting operations off the main line.

 

Ok... so just about three feet with a curve to the fiddle yard.  Works for me.

 

I swing by my house that is being built.  Looks like Ill have about 8 feet for a fiddle yard against the other wall.  I think that might be manageable.

 

Also, should I maybe add 6 inches to the width?  Make it 30" to allow for a tad more scenery, maybe shop fronts as this is a coastal beach setting?

 

Also, if anyone knows tank unloading practice that would be helpful.  I imagine they needed cranes?  Or some form of ramp?  Trying to work that in based off the history of the real minehead.

[The Johnster]

Ramps were, and I think still are, used at Haverfordwest which is the railhead for the Castlemartin firing range in South Pembrokeshire.  Warwell wagons have lowerable flaps at the ends so that the tanks can simply be driven along the length of the train, although it would be possible to take a tank off the side if the ground it was 'landing' on was at a suitable level.  A crane capable of lifting a tank off a train would be a mighty beast of the sort not found outside dockyards I suspect.

 

I agree that the kickback could be lengthened, but having it a little shorter than your longest siding will add an edge to your shunting and make it more interesting.  I'd be tempted to put another kickback in off the bay platform as a carriage siding, perhaps with a wooden platform for the cleaners.  6 inches extra width is a good thing, and will enable you to model more of the environment that the railway runs in as well as the railway itself, something lacking on my own space restricted blt; I would say do it if you can as you can't have too much space, and you don't have to use it all straight away.

[Seanem44]

Ramps would make sense.

 

Where should the signal box go on a layout such as this?  For that matter, I really don't know what signals I would add and where.

[imt]

I would extend the kick-back siding, parallel to the main line, to be at least the length of the longest goods siding to allow shunting operations off the main line.

 

It's not essential.  This is a small country station on a single line, probably operated one engine in steam and if not by token block of some sort.  Shunting on the main line would be quite normal since freight was usually handled around passenger workings.  That doesn't mean to say that on your layout you cannot design it how you like and run it the way you choose.

 

Ramps would make sense.

 

Where should the signal box go on a layout such as this?  For that matter, I really don't know what signals I would add and where.

 

As above. Small country station so there wouldn't be much need for signals.  The signal box would sit near the largest concentration of points or alternatively where convenient for token exchange on a single track branch and where the signalman had a good view of what was going on.  Signals cost a lot of money to install maintain and operate, and various companies had different ideas for what they would do, and what they wouldn't bother signalling. Since it seems to be based on a real ststion maybe looking at things like this would help:

 

https://www.signalbox.org/branches/kw/minehead.htm  in which I quote " The signalling on the railway remained relatively unchanged from the day of reopening until 1990. ".  I also note that it was a token operated station.

 

You might also find some diagrams on The Signalling Record Society - here http://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/gwe/S767.htm is a small copy of the signalling layout BUT this is for a dual line version from circa 1909 I believe.  There seem to be a goodly supply of signals, which probably would not have been there for a single line station.

[ejstubbs]

Ramps were, and I think still are, used at Haverfordwest which is the railhead for the Castlemartin firing range in South Pembrokeshire.

 

Wouldn't Pembroke Dock be a more logical railhead, at least in the days before the Cleddau Bridge was built?  It was a long way round by road from Haverfordwest before that.

 

I know this because we used to holiday at Letterston when I was a kid in the 1960s, and we hardly ever made it "south of the river".  I vaguely remember one trip to Tenby - which hardly counts, because that's a long way whichever route you take - and another to Pembroke, of which I have a distinct memory of visiting the castle.  We may even have taken the ferry for that trip, come to think.  Otherwise I think Carew was about as far into that part of Pembs as we ever got.

 

Update: Digging around a bit online, it appears that Pembroke Dock is used as well as Haverfordwest, particularly for vehicles which can be driven to the ranges on their own tracks like Scimitars (when driven on public roads, they are fitted with a flashing yellow light just like argricultural vehciles!)  Larger vehicles like Warriors which are more likely to damage public roads are loaded on to transporter lorries at Haverfordwest and delivered by road from there.  Some vehicles, like Challenger tanks, are too big for the railway loading gauge so go all the way by road transporter.

[Seanem44]

Wouldn't Pembroke Dock be a more logical railhead, at least in the days before the Cleddau Bridge was built?  It was a long way round by road from Haverfordwest before that.

 

I know this because we used to holiday at Letterston when I was a kid in the 1960s, and we hardly ever made it "south of the river".  I vaguely remember one trip to Tenby - which hardly counts, because that's a long way whichever route you take - and another to Pembroke, of which I have a distinct memory of visiting the castle.  We may even have taken the ferry for that trip, come to think.  Otherwise I think Carew was about as far into that part of Pembs as we ever got.

 

I will be modelling WWII.  And I am slowly moving towards modelling Minehead proper, as opposed to a design based on it.  I would likely condense and omit a few things such as the turntable which I believe was still there in the 40s.  The thing that interests me about Minehead is tanks were offloaded there and driven immediately to the coast, and then up the coast where they trained.  There was a heavy US presence in addition to British Military. 

 

A war theme also gives me the flexibility to pretty much run anything I want on any time schedule I want, which is another bonus.

[ejstubbs]

Some info on the following web pages about WWII defences at and around Minehead:

 

https://sites.google.com/site/holfordhistorysociety/home/wartime-holford/coastal-defences - might be possible to access the maps/aerial photos referred to, not sure how/where though

 

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/warming-ww2-stories-from-your-area - specifically posting by acehtm

 

A more general Wiki page about UK WW2 anti-invasion defences: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_anti-invasion_preparations_of_the_Second_World_War