Hornby points help

[liamsantini]

Hi everyone. I have just brought a DCC Hornby layout and for some reason both the locos stall over the point. I have the clips to keep it all live.

 

Would I better getting different points? I've tried cleaning, making sure points are flat etc etc. Nothing seems to work.

 

Any help would be greatly apppreciated.

[Killian keane]

The point is clean, but are the locos wheels clean also? Its the typical problem with dead frog points, if it were me I'd go for live frog points, buy then you have to think more in depth into how the wiring is going to work etc

[Jinty3f]

0-4-0 and to an extent 0-6-0 locos are liable to stall on plastic Vs as opposed to metal Vs because the wheels which are not touching the Vee may not be in contact with both rails at the same time and so no power is being picked up. Clean wheels and correctly adjusted pickups are a must in this case to make sure that at least one wheel on each side is picking up current. It is also essential to make sure that the point is layed perfectly level to maximise the chances of wheels picking up current. Live frog points from Peco are better but if your points are level, pickups are in wheel contact and wheels are clean, you have a fighting chance with Hornby points. If your points are indeed level, I would check that the pickups are actually touching the wheels and not gummed up with fluff or grunge.

 

 

 

Te

[liamsantini]

Cheers guys. The layout is end to end DCC. No wiring. Just DCC clips to keep power. I have cleaned point, but not wheels. I will have a look.

 

Thanks for the suggestions. I do think I will get electrofrog though!

[DCMarvel]

Sometimes the plastic moulding for the dead frog doesn't have enough depth for the flange and lifts the wheel ever so slightly, so if there isn't much 'articulation' in the wheel sets it lifts the opposite pickup wheel. You could try filing them deeper, as at worst if you cut through you have already sort of decided to replace them.

[liamsantini]

Ok, so how would I file them down? That's sounds stupid but I only have nail files, I don't have the metal ones.

[loickebros]

Ok, so how would I file them down? That's sounds stupid but I only have nail files, I don't have the metal ones.

A Dremmel or similar is the easiest way.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

For an end to end - and thus most likely slow speed operation - layout I'd say don't mess around with the Hornby points. Sell the Hornby track for what you can get, and use Peco flexitrack and live crossing points instead.

[JDW]

For an end to end - and thus most likely slow speed operation - layout I'd say don't mess around with the Hornby points. Sell the Hornby track for what you can get, and use Peco flexitrack and live crossing points instead.

 Or even (dare I say?!) just Peco dead frog points - I use these and have found them much more reliable than their Hornby equivalents, without the hassle of any extra wiring.  Of course, for small locos, they probably won't make a difference, but for larger locos (most of the stock I run over them is long wheelbase DMUs) just the fact that the geometry of the Peco ones is slightly better makes a difference (especially to older stock)

[The Johnster]

I agree with 34 and JD, but you may be restricted for space and not able to do this so easily.  Also, if your existing points are scenicked and ballasted in, getting them out is a faff.  If your running is good except for stalling on points, your wheels, pickups, and track are reasonably clean, but dead frogs will bring out the worst in them if you don't keep them immaculate!  

 

There are different methods of cleaning rails and chassis, some of which are expensive and automated but worth it for large layouts with a lot of track and large studs of locos.  But here we are talking about an end to end with 2 locos, and you will be able to clean the rail surfaces effectively enough with a Peco track cleaning block, and for the wheels and pickups, I take the bodies off and use Isopropyl Alcohol (seriously, don't drink this or inhale more than you have to, you WILL go blind, if you survive) soaked on to a camera lens cleaning cloth.  Don't use fibre pens; they are very effective but fibres get everywhere, and don't use cotton wool buds, because the cotton gets everywhere as well. Clean the wheel treads, and the backs where the pickups bear on them, and the pickups themselves.  Hornby motors are held in by a single screw and clip out when that is removed, doing this will enable you to turn the wheels by hand which helps with the cleaning.

 

As well as checking that everything is clean and level, including that the track is not deforming on foam underlay, the devli's vomit, under the weight of the locos, check that the flangeways (the plastic channel through which the flanges run between the running rails and the check rails, which prevent your stock going the wrong way at the vee) are clear of debris, which will lift your wheels by the flange and destroy contact with the rail, and that the blades are closing against the stock rails properly; again, debris or odd bits of ballast can prevent this.  Where they close onto the stock rail makes an electrical contact, and needs to be kept clean as arcing builds up a residue there if the points are changed while current is running through the track, which it is all the time with DCC.  I use a cheapo kiddies paintbrush with stiff nylon bristles which came as a set from a pound shop (different sizes, useful for all sorts of things, like sweeping up after you've been ballasting) for cleaning flangeways.  Don't blow on them; the debris will just cause a problem somewhere else.

 

Also, check that the points are joined to the next pieces smoothly, level, and without doglegs, which can introduce a localised small radius that your locos are not designed to cope with.  Another thing that can trip you up with dead frog points of whatever make is where you have two or more in close proximity, as you would for example in a run around engine release crossover, and the dead frogs are the same distance apart as the wheelbase of the pickup wheels on your loco; Hornby steam outline locos and diesel shunters have pickups on the outer wheels of 6 or 8-coupled locos only, not the middle ones, making them in effect long wheelbase 0-4-0s for pickup purposes, which, if the wheelbase coincides with the distance separating the dead frogs, will stop your loco dead however clean, level, and smoothly laid things are!  It can affect some split pickup tender loco steam, bogie diesels or dmus as well!

 

If that's what's happening, you could try a stayalive, a capacitor fitted to DCC locos that will continue to supply current for a second or so after it is cut from the track supply, sort of like an electronic flywheel, but even this may not be enough for very slow running where there is little current to 'charge' it.  If that is your situation, the best way around it is to fit extra pickups for the centre wheels.  If you need to do this, you will need to solder, but if this is outside of your skillsets, don't worry, there'll be plenty advice on here!  I use Peco insulfrog points, and all my locos are varying types of 6-coupled steam outline (a 2-8-0 is on the shopping list), including some Hornbys, and reckon my running is pretty good.  Stalls or no-starts are unusual and always an indication that that loco and that piece of track needs some tlc.

 

Poor running is a thing that is guaranteed to sap your enthusiasm, Liam, but you are not alone and there are solutions.  But, so long as the baseboards are reasonably level and rigid, there are no problems that cannot be sorted out; again, plenty advice on here;  where it is conflicting, mine is the correct one...

 

Mostly.

 

Well, sometimes, anyway.